Intentions vs. Actions when Getting Older

[FreeBear]

I 100% understand why he wants to do what he wants. And yes, it is all about independence. Although he understands that keeping/living in the house isn't the best choice, for him, it is. Is it a pain for me? Yes, yes it is and to a point he knows it. He also knows that if weren't for me being retired and available for him 24/7, then he probably wouldn't be able to be as independent as he is.

I dread the day when he's no longer with us, because dealing with all his possessions is going to be a huge headache, but fretting about it today doesn't do me any good, so I just take it day by day.

For me, I hope to not do that. I don't find myself attached to material possessions and would be happy to get rid of about 90% of the stuff we have in our house, but my DW is a bit more attached to the "stuff".

Ouch! I hear you. I cared for my mom for 15 years. Parents' seemingly irrational desire for independence can certainly risk your freedom. It was certainly a delicate balancing act for me. If I did what I really wanted, which I never fully did anyway, then I felt guilty. If I did what she wanted, I would often grow resentful.

As for stuff, we still love our stuff, mostly accumulated during our w*rking days. Our WR requires us to balance between stuff at home and vacation experiences. I'm gradually coming around to your way of thinking about stuff. It's just more to pay for, store, and eventually, dispose...

I find that by cutting back buying more new toys, I can really enjoy what I have already. So far, I have managed to avoid buying new bikes, guitars, and computers. The old ones are good enough for now, especially if I don't directly compare with the new stuff out there. Sometimes new is just different...

 

[haha]

Although I intend to ER in a few years, this post is about my parents who retired in their 50s and are now in their late 70s, early 80s.

Upon ER my parents had a very sound plan for their retirement including to investigate CCRC options throughout Germany; my parents both live there. Their plan was to sell their house and move into a CCRC facility in their 70s.

However, when the time came, they were more than reluctant to execute this plan. Instead, they suffered through multiple years of grocery shopping via bicycle, taking care of yard work and living/managing an oversized house; not to mention the awfully dangerous concrete staircase connecting the floors. To my siblings and I it was clear, the CCRC plan was abandoned, due to the fear of change, the concern of downsizing and loosing "precious" possessions and a general lethargy towards change.

It took significant "convincing" and "pressure" to guide my parents back onto their original plan. They finally agreed and have lived in a CCRC place for over two years now. They love it! They now live in a large city, with great public transportation. My mom often goes to the theater, she doesn't need to cook anymore and the grocery store is just 5 minutes by foot. My dad has a huge public park to enjoy and the car stays in the parking garage for months at a time.

Looking forward to my own retirement, I am concerned I may behave just as "illogical" when my time comes.

What is your experience? Any tips "up-front"?

What I think is that usually these warehouses for old people are not so great. Thus it is not clearly a bad idea to just play it as it lays. I lived along the shore in a small town where lots of crusty old Norwegian-American men lived alone in cabins, used driftwood for heat, fished and clammed and usually walked into town for potatoes, onions, coffee etc, and did pretty well. They may or may not have lived as long as they might have but no one can know, and at lest they did not have to suffer the indignities of growing old in a "facility." They did know some locals, who checked on them from time to time.

If you live a long time one of the things that happens is that most of your friends die, and then some of the younger people you have known die, and you may find yourself fairly alone which can be a negative.

Ha

 

[Nemo2]

If you live a long time one of the things that happens is that most of your friends die, and then some of the younger people you have known die, and you may find yourself fairly alone which can be a negative.

I remember as a kid having my grandmother, (who lived to be 96), tell me that she didn't read the local obits anymore "Because everyone I knew has gone".

 

[ncbill]

Grandmother, passing in her mid-90s, outlived everyone she had known except for one grade school friend, though that friend was already in the locked ward (dementia) at their CCRC.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I wonder too that if you move into a AS Living apartment and get meals, your laundry done etc when you are capable of doing these things yourself if this leads to a decline in your health because then you are not moving as much, etc.

 

[fassmac]

I wonder too that if you move into a AS Living apartment and get meals, your laundry done etc when you are capable of doing these things yourself if this leads to a decline in your health because then you are not moving as much, etc.

I have observed this with my parents. Also, as every day is nearly the same as the next, it becomes increasingly difficult to excite them for anything new.

 

[Teacher Terry]

No one in my family has moved into these places and everyone pretty much took care of themselves until they died or if too sick went into a NH before dying. My Mom had a full life with volunteering, going to bingo, senior events, making crafts to sell, etc. Even as she outlived most of her friends she still was active until her cancer became too bad at the end. Even then she lived alone until a week before she died.

 

[lwp2017]

My dad literally built their house. They lived in it for about 50 years until he died.

I convinced my mom the house was was bricks & lumber, her memories would always be in her heart. It had become too much to care for, friends in the neighborhood were all gone. She sold it and moved into an independent living facility.

She loves her small town independent living facility, been there 5 years. A lot of friends, one hot meal a day in the facility chow hall, and a small kitchen she seldom uses in her apt.

She has 2 bedrooms, one is the " war-room" with her computer gear, monitors, scanners, printers, etc, she is still quite the computer geek.

They play cards and dominoes and the van service takes her anywhere in town such as shopping at WalMart or getting her hair fixed. Church on premises once a week that she loves.

She monitors all of her investment accounts & pension online, meets with her broker monthly and is still mentally very sharp with asset allocation risk tolerances.

Not a bad lifestyle for 90 years old. For her it was a positive move.

 

[MichaelB]

We live in a culture where personal responsibility and individuality are critical components of our self-worth, so it's no wonder older folks are unwilling to go to an institution. They cede the authority to make even small decisions, such as when to eat, and lose all sense of privacy. Just as bad, they feel they are treated like children, from their own children and other younger family members.

Most of the residents are not there because of age. They suffer from physical or mental health issues. I'm with HaHa on this - life in a place like that is nothing to look forward to.

 

[googily]

I wonder too that if you move into a AS Living apartment and get meals, your laundry done etc when you are capable of doing these things yourself if this leads to a decline in your health because then you are not moving as much, etc.

This is why my 84-year-old father has no intention of moving from his townhouse until circumstances warrant. "Use it or lose it," he says of the stairs.

(Yes, definitely, but please hold onto the handrail, Dad!)

 

[Teacher Terry]

My 92 yo aunt just recently hired a cleaner. She still cooks her meals and does everything else herself. She and my Mom moved into a senior apartment and left at 1 year when the lease was up. They both were very active and many people just sat in the lobby and watched others come and go and gossiped about people. They both hated it.

 

[Koolau]

This whole discussion is kind of depressing. We have no family close so if we can't look after each other, our options are limited to say the least. All the retirement places we've looked at are expensive - here and on the mainland. I console myself with the fact that we're not the only people who have had to face the future as rapidly aging seniors. Most folks get through, one way or the other. Still, it would be nice to have a better idea of what to prepare for - though maybe not knowing is a blessing. Anyway, YMMV.

 

[imoldernu]

"I'd rather be dead!..."
Maybe not, or perhaps to put off the decision until the time comes.

Of course, we're all different, but I'd like to put in a cautionary thought.

When looking from the outside, in.... sometimes things are not as clear as they are when you're already there. I'll confess that when we were in our 60's, the thought of living in one of the places where we had visited a friend or relative, was repulsive. A 60 or 70 year old brain in a relatively healthy body would not even think of living in an "old folks home". Now, in retrospect, maybe a bit short sighted.

First... many of the posts here describe horrible conditions. In another post, somewhere, I talked about how many CCRC's we visited... not to be romanced by the management, but to spend time walking thru, time spent talking with the residents, and time weighing the pros and cons. We found what we liked... people, place and cost, and are very happy here.

Not all retirement communities consist of cell-like rooms, days of boredom, and snarky doddering old idiots. Though we currently live in a "Villa", we've spent enough time at the apartments to know that there is a social life... that all meals, laundry and daily activities are not confined to a "cell".

The apartments are bright, cheery, and include full cooking and storage facilities, and most residents have not given up their driving privileges. Those who no longer drive have many options for going out to eat, shopping, and "getting away"... Most provided by the CCRC, but also available on call.

I guess I'd end this by saying that working with an 81 year old brain is different from what it was 10 or twenty years ago. That old spark of hyperactivity, is now a pilot light... the spirit is still there, but not always working at fireball speeds...

Not ready to toe up yet...

 

[audreyh1]

Ouch! I hear you. I cared for my mom for 15 years. Parents' seemingly irrational desire for independence can certainly risk your freedom. It was certainly a delicate balancing act for me. If I did what I really wanted, which I never fully did anyway, then I felt guilty. If I did what she wanted, I would often grow resentful.

Elderly who are "independent" but in fact need a close loved one available 24/7 just in case, and otherwise helping with various errands, chores, etc., are not in fact independent, but lucky. As much as they are enjoying their "independence" it's an illusion. I just hope it's not too much for the caregiver.

 

[athena53]

Elderly who are "independent" but in fact need a close loved one available 24/7 just in case, and otherwise helping with various errands, chores, etc., are not in fact independent, but lucky. As much as they are enjoying their "independence" it's an illusion. I just hope it's not too much for the caregiver.

When I got paid respite care for DH in his last weeks so I could leave the house and not worry about him, the agency said that some of their clients were in their 90s and living at home with the help of their aides, who will help with bathing, dressing, light housekeeping, grocery shopping, etc. I was impressed with the quality of their people but think that would be a very isolated life. Not cheap, either, at $22/hour.

 

[Sunset]

I wonder too that if you move into a AS Living apartment and get meals, your laundry done etc when you are capable of doing these things yourself if this leads to a decline in your health because then you are not moving as much, etc.

It's a lot like reading this forum, moving around less...

 

[FreeBear]

This whole discussion is kind of depressing. We have no family close so if we can't look after each other, our options are limited to say the least. All the retirement places we've looked at are expensive - here and on the mainland. I console myself with the fact that we're not the only people who have had to face the future as rapidly aging seniors. Most folks get through, one way or the other. Still, it would be nice to have a better idea of what to prepare for - though maybe not knowing is a blessing. Anyway, YMMV.

Yep, a bit depressing. We're in the same situation, no close family anywhere, let alone nearby. I'm interested in CCRC's as possible method to managing the change, with hunkering down in our current home as the "traditional" alternative.

What I'm seeing from these discussions is that a major decision is coming up in 15-20 years at best, when the "go-go" years are likely to transition to "slow go" at best. Sure there are late 80 year olds running marathons, but in reality I know this probably won't be us.

I've always been a long term planner. I could see the end of my career in the first few years at w*rk; my entire industry offshored to Asia. I planned accordingly to FIRE. So I'm giving some consideration to the next step now, at the start of our retirement.

"I'd rather be dead!..."

When looking from the outside, in.... sometimes things are not as clear as they are when you're already there. I'll confess that when we were in our 60's, the thought of living in one of the places where we had visited a friend or relative, was repulsive. A 60 or 70 year old brain in a relatively healthy body would not even think of living in an "old folks home". Now, in retrospect, maybe a bit short sighted.

First... many of the posts here describe horrible conditions. In another post, somewhere, I talked about how many CCRC's we visited... not to be romanced by the management, but to spend time walking thru, time spent talking with the residents, and time weighing the pros and cons. We found what we liked... people, place and cost, and are very happy here.

Thanks, a very helpful, even encouraging perspective. One of my take aways from this is that you planned and researched your transition into a CCRC very carefully. How old were you guys when you seriously started searching?

Elderly who are "independent" but in fact need a close loved one available 24/7 just in case, and otherwise helping with various errands, chores, etc., are not in fact independent, but lucky. As much as they are enjoying their "independence" it's an illusion. I just hope it's not too much for the caregiver.

I took care of my mom for 15 years, starting in college. I became head of the household in grad school. It was tough. Between this and a couple of decades in the rat race, my soul is just plain tired at this point. DW also has had lots of family fun

I'm glad DW and I FIRE'd three years ago. I feel like I stumbled across the finish line, barely.

 

[audreyh1]

When I got paid respite care for DH in his last weeks so I could leave the house and not worry about him, the agency said that some of their clients were in their 90s and living at home with the help of their aides, who will help with bathing, dressing, light housekeeping, grocery shopping, etc. I was impressed with the quality of their people but think that would be a very isolated life. Not cheap, either, at $22/hour.

I would just be so worried about dealing with hired help - hiring, replacing, screening etc., without a sharp trustworthy relative living nearby who can keep an eye on things. Having a reputable agency can really help, but the elder is in a vulnerable position. And if mentally sliding a bit - oh boy!

And it is isolated at home with no one but hired help for company.

 

[Amethyst]

Some very good points.

My thinking is influenced by the sort of "lovely" places my elderly relatives sold their homes to move into, usually after an Alzheimer's diagnosis (see what I have to look forward to? ) The places all looked like Hampton Inns - nice for a short stay, but very monotonous to live in for long - and the inmates' rooms were small. If your neighbors are tedious, there are few places to get away from them and just be yourself.

After a while, they didn't even know where they were any more, so the aesthetics of the facility hardly mattered, as long as their basic needs were met (they were) and they weren't abused (they weren't).

It's apparent that much nicer facilities, with more privacy, may be available to those with the means.

"I'd rather be dead!..."
Maybe not, or perhaps to put off the decision until the time comes.

Of course, we're all different, but I'd like to put in a cautionary thought.

When looking from the outside, in.... sometimes things are not as clear as they are when you're already there. I'll confess that when we were in our 60's, the thought of living in one of the places where we had visited a friend or relative, was repulsive. A 60 or 70 year old brain in a relatively healthy body would not even think of living in an "old folks home". Now, in retrospect, maybe a bit short sighted.

First... many of the posts here describe horrible conditions. In another post, somewhere, I talked about how many CCRC's we visited... not to be romanced by the management, but to spend time walking thru, time spent talking with the residents, and time weighing the pros and cons. We found what we liked... people, place and cost, and are very happy here.

Not all retirement communities consist of cell-like rooms, days of boredom, and snarky doddering old idiots. Though we currently live in a "Villa", we've spent enough time at the apartments to know that there is a social life... that all meals, laundry and daily activities are not confined to a "cell".

The apartments are bright, cheery, and include full cooking and storage facilities, and most residents have not given up their driving privileges. Those who no longer drive have many options for going out to eat, shopping, and "getting away"... Most provided by the CCRC, but also available on call.

I guess I'd end this by saying that working with an 81 year old brain is different from what it was 10 or twenty years ago. That old spark of hyperactivity, is now a pilot light... the spirit is still there, but not always working at fireball speeds...

Not ready to toe up yet...

 

[Teacher Terry]

Where we live nice retirement places are not affordable. I had to put my friend a hour away from me so get a decent place that she could afford. No privacy if you can't afford a private room. People around you constantly. Ugh!

 

[AltaRed]

No one size fits all. It depends on what is available, physical and mental health, personality and affordability. Fortunately, DW and I have the resources to afford pretty much anything we want. At age 68 & 69, we are still too young and healthy to leave our 'location' house with lakeview and a pool, but the maintenance is starting to become a burden. It also takes work to secure the place when we travel, which we try to do at least 2-3 times per year.

Our overall plan is to stay in our house as long as we enjoy it and/or can manage it. All things considered, maybe upwards of 10 more years, health depending. The plan then is to move to a retirement bungalow in a retirement community of such homes (not likely), OR to a 2BR + Den type apartment in a stacked retirement resort building (more likely) that has lots of activities and social possibilities, and which provides at least one quality meal per day. Some of these apartments/bungalows are in the 1200-1500 sq ft range. My mother spent her last 5 years in such a facility.

We would then contract for additional services as and when we need them, e.g. housekeeping, laundry, meds, etc. We do not want to become a burden on anyone else. Fortunately, our area has lots of possibilities given it is a retirement destination and a large variety of options exist.

Just this past month, one of our neighbours, a couple both aged 85 and physically capable, but noticeably slowing down, sold their big house and they are moving into one of these apartments in a stacked retirement resort. The money they get from the house, over $800k, will pay for a lot of time and luxury should they live another 10 years... never mind his pension from the local crown electrical utility company.

Getting old sucks BUT it can be made to be cheerful and comfortable with a minimum of constraints.

 

[Accidental Retiree]

Belated happy birthday!

Yeah!

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Elderly who are "independent" but in fact need a close loved one available 24/7 just in case, and otherwise helping with various errands, chores, etc., are not in fact independent, but lucky. As much as they are enjoying their "independence" it's an illusion. I just hope it's not too much for the caregiver.

You bring up a very valid point. I have told people that my Dad is "independent" and until I read your post, I think I was under that illusion. He has even mentioned several times over that he's not sure what he would do if I wasn't around and I just tell him that it's something he doesn't have to worry about.

My DW worries about me as a caregiver since I do spend so much time and energy helping him out...but I think it's something I owe him, so I can't even fathom "sending him to a home" as long as I can be his advocate and help him to the best of my abilities. In many ways, our life is on hold while we help out Dad. When he passes, we have no intention of staying where we are, and the DW has even mentioned that she may *finally* retire when we move back to her families neck of the woods. But then, My mother (she didn't really raise me...my Grandparents did) isn't a young whipper snapper, either and hasn't planned for the future AT ALL...so then I wonder if I will get to be her primary caretaker in the future. And then there are DW's parents...ugh, it's all very stressful even thinking about it all.

 

[gretah]

Here's an example for us all -

My friend is 80 and her husband 75. He had a major stroke at 72. He went from a strong, vigorous working man to one who can barely brush his teeth.

8 years ago they bought their dream retirement home in the woods. Big house with a big garden. 1.5 hour drive one way (3 hours r/t) to medical resources. They don't have children and all relatives are in Europe.

Now my friend is exhausted with chores and caregiving every day. Between the two of them, they must drive to medical appointments 3 times a month or more.

8 years ago, they should have downsized their belongings and moved into a modest home near medical resources. Now my poor friend is doing the Big Downsize with the help of a few friends so she can put the house on the market. And her husband had another small stroke last week.

Very sad.

 

[Teacher Terry]

That is exactly why we downsized, moved to a smaller home right in town at 58 & 53. I did not want to be in that situation. Some friends of ours inherited some $ at ages 70 and both still work from home because they have too. Did they use that money wisely. No they promptly bought a huge house (3K sq ft) and rented their other home because they were underwater on it. So at this age they have 2 good sized mortgages. Then they realized after moving that all their bills were higher for the house so quit having their cleaners. So now this big beautiful house is always nasty dirty. They have no kids so at least their problems won't get dumped on them.