investing 20% in one stock

How would anyone know that it's 20% of your NW? Does that include property or just investments? I can think of ways to lower the visibility to my NW.

OTOH, I'd just skip the visa, go and stay in Italy for three months, leave for a bit and come back. That's how we managed our many years in France.
 
dmpi said:
I don't think putting 20% in for getting a visa is such a bad idea if you can somehow pick a good company to buy into. I thought Nutella is owned by Ferrero which is privately held. If I could I would buy into that. ENEL is a green energy company which is mostly owned by the Italian government. My view is that green energy is somewhat speculative at this stage. Ferrari sounds OK, but were in a EV transition, so there are risks. My view is people will always want gas powered Ferraris even if there's EV that are actually faster.
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ENEL does some green energy, but has been a mainstay energy company in Italy for a good while.
 
marko said:
How would anyone know that it's 20% of your NW? Does that include property or just investments? I can think of ways to lower the visibility to my NW.

OTOH, I'd just skip the visa, go and stay in Italy for three months, leave for a bit and come back. That's how we managed our many years in France.
Click to expand...
That is in fact what we are doing now. It is certainly the other option. They don't say 20%, they have a euro amount.
 
Thank you to all of you for your thoughtful responses! It is good to get different perspectives!
 
DJRR said:
If your visa grants you access to free Italian health care then I would not worry about it. That is probably more valuable than 20% of your portfolio.

I would not invest in autos or banking. Maybe:

Prada S.p.A. (OTC:pRDSY) - rich consumer goods since 1913​

Edison S.p.A. (BIT:EDNR) - energy company since 1884​

Nexi S.p.A. (OTC:NEXXY) - electronic money and payment services​

Click to expand...
Excellent point about the health care, if you think about what we'd pay here even with an ACA plan, it might cost 20% of your portfolio over 10-20 years anyway.
 
The Cosmic Avenger said:
Excellent point about the health care, if you think about what we'd pay here even with an ACA plan, it might cost 20% of your portfolio over 10-20 years anyway.
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Sadly, at this point immigrants above a minimal income are 2700 euro/year each to join the health system. This is a new change this year. I can't say it seems wrong: Italians have been paying into it for decades by retirement, and we have not.
 
palomalou said:
How do people feel about the safety of investing 20% of one's net worth in one major Italian corporation, such as Ferrari, Nutella, Enel? The purpose would be to obtain a visa by investment. Heretofore we have only index funds except for a few small individual stocks which we inherited.
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Ferrari seems to have a good track record - no major pullbacks in any chart I can find
Koolau said:
Ferrari has been on the brink a couple of times in the past. No idea how healthy they are now.
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latest earnings report is positive, if you read through the details: https://www.reuters.com/business/au...rnings-rose-q1-sticks-fy-guidance-2024-05-07/

dmpi said:
Ferrari sounds OK, but were in a EV transition, so there are risks. My view is people will always want gas powered Ferraris even if there's EV that are actually faster.
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They seem to be well on their way in this transition - they have a hybrid and will unveil a full battery-EV in late 2025. They just opened a battery lab/factory. Their new EV will have a 'digital signature' to artificially emulate their typical engine sound. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
palomalou said:
Yup, speak the language, have an apartment already and have spent several months in it.


You are correct, it is a euro amount.
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Cool!

I asked because we made 12 trips to the Islands before we committed to moving. And, in theory, at least, the Islands use (mostly) English though we are the only state with two official languages (Hawaiian as well as English.)

I think with your commitment, as evidenced by your preparations and capability with language, the 20% would be okay - assuming you could bear losing all or part of it as the "cost" of residency. Best of luck in your decision AND your proposed new residency.
 
Is there an Italian conglomerate that is itself highly and globally diversified? Perhaps one on or further down
Sure Whitey’s list.
 
Depends... If 20% is 50k, probably not. If 20% is 2m, maybe I'd risk it.
 
If you are going ahead with this mandated investment, I'd suggest stability as the overriding selection criterion. (Hint: Ferrari is not it.) I don't know the Italian economy well enough (not at all, actually) but in the US I might start by looking at the stodgiest of utilities, consumer staples suppliers, well-rated insurance companies, long dividend histories, etc. Look for companies with Buffett's moats (How an Economic Moat Provides a Competitive Advantage).

I would treat this mandated investment almost as if it were part of my fixed income tranche.
 
Does it have to be a single Italian listed company? Could it be a portfolio on a number of Italian listed companies?

If a single company, perhaps you could buy put options to protect against a severe decline in value.

Also, check out Tamburi Investment Partners: Italian Equivalent of Fairfax, Markel, Leucadia or Berkshire Hathaway | MOI Global

Tamburi Investment Partners is the Italian equivalent of Fairfax, Markel, Leucadia or indeed Berkshire Hathaway. Much smaller in size (500m euro market cap), it has accumulated an excellent track record buying minority stakes in Italian mid and small cap quoted and unquoted companies in the industrial, tech and consumer sector.
Click to expand...
 
Decided to look it up... there are various ways to get this done... for some reason I cannot copay and paste... the lowest is to invest in one company...

But Italian bonds,
Invest in various Italian companies,
Invest in one Italian company,
Make a large donation...

www.globalcitizensolutions.com

Investing in Italy: How to Obtain Italy Citizenship by Investment

Click here to gain valuable insights into the requirements, advantages, and opportunities offered through Italy citizenship by investment.
www.globalcitizensolutions.com www.globalcitizensolutions.com
 
Three thoughts come to mind if I would consider something like this:
* Can you spread this over more companies? Or even use the IT40 index?
* Buy into bond instead of stock?
* Why Italy? Since a Shengen visa allows you to live anywhere in the Shenchen area.
 
I would buy myself a great Italian restaurant and eat there everyday, and I’d have a different Italian wine everyday for both lunch and dinner. That way, food costs would shrink, so bonus. I’d probably die early but very happy.
 
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OldShooter said:
William Bernstein: “Do you think that by choosing a portfolio of only a few stocks that you hope will score big, you are maximizing your chances of becoming wealthy? Indeed you are, but you are also maximizing the chances of a retirement of cat food cuisine.”

William Bernstein: “Make no mistake about it: The object of this particular game is not to get rich – It’s to not get poor.”

Can you make your visa investment via an Italian mutual fund or at least in a diversified portfolio of qualifying stocks?
Click to expand...
I used to be of the same mind as Mr. Bernstein. I also hold it true for someone trying to accumulate wealth starting at 0. However, should your position be one of relative financial stability I see nothing wrong with sectioning off a small portion of your portfolio to take a stab at a few single stock picks. It's worked for me. Just make sure you are as smart as you think you are.

I see it no different than someone who puts a small % of their money into any other higher risk high reward investment such as a portfolio tilt towards EM or small cap. I think the exchange you make is diversity( in all it's glory) for a laser like focus in a single company you truly believe is stable.

If you have a million dollar portfolio and you put 50 or 100k into a single stock it's a wild bet be prepared for the loss, but if you can hold along time it can really pay off.

the real question is how much of your portfolio are you okay losing not how much you can gain.
 
I've looked at ENI, as well as an Italian telecomm, and a few banks. Someone posted a list of stocks. I'd probably buy 4 or 5 to meet the minimum investment. There are probably more possibilities, but I don't watch many Italian stocks other than ENI.
My stock play account is about 8-10% of our portfolio, so there is a bit more risk, but if your portfolio is big enough, I don't see it as a huge problem.
 
RobLJ said:
I've looked at ENI, as well as an Italian telecomm, and a few banks. Someone posted a list of stocks. I'd probably buy 4 or 5 to meet the minimum investment. There are probably more possibilities, but I don't watch many Italian stocks other than ENI.
My stock play account is about 8-10% of our portfolio, so there is a bit more risk, but if your portfolio is big enough, I don't see it as a huge problem.
Click to expand...
You need to look at my link way back when....

You need twice as much invested if you choose to invest in more than one company... so that would be 40% for the OP...
 
palomalou said:
How do people feel about the safety of investing 20% of one's net worth in one major Italian corporation, such as Ferrari, Nutella, Enel? The purpose would be to obtain a visa by investment. Heretofore we have only index funds except for a few small individual stocks which we inherited.
Click to expand...
How do they know your net worth?
 
If you invest in different things, the amounts needed as investment are different.
Example if you invest in Gov't bonds (probably the safest) the investment has to be $2M not $500K.

Since OP says the $500K would be 20%, it means OP's stash is $2.5M so the bond choice is probably out.
 
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