Long Term Care Ins. Calculator

[imoldernu]

While looking for comparative costs for Long Term Care insurance for a friend, I came across this website. While I wouldn't buy in to LTC ins. again, we do have a small $100/day policy, that we'll keep as we're getting close. The nice part about the calculator is that you don't have to sign in to use it, and then endure forever solicitations.

https://www.genworth.com/long-term-care-insurance/il/make-a-plan/ltc-insurance-calculator.html

 

[Marita40]

Thanks. I am trying to figure out whether to keep renewing my Genworth policy, so I'm reading everything I can lately on LTC.
According to this calculator, if I bought a policy today at age 60 comparable to my current policy, I'd have an approx. $6000./year premium. As it is, my premium has just gone up to $3400/year. I can either continue to pay it, reduce coverage, or drop it. For every positive I hear in my reading on LTC, there is an equal negative.

 

[REWahoo]

Thanks for the link to the calculator. It says we would be charged almost $10,000/yr for the policies we took out 17 years ago and are currently paying $2,275/yr. That $2,275 premium is a substantial increase from the $1,200/yr we paid for the coverage for the first 14 years.

When our premiums jumped, we were given similar choices (keep, reduce coverage, drop) and we opted to keep ours.

 

[TrophyWife]

I would love to hear if anyone has had issues getting insurance companies to pay out on long term car insurance. We had a home warrantee when we bought a house and it seemed to be worthless because of all the exclusions.

 

[REWahoo]

I would love to hear if anyone has had issues getting insurance companies to pay out on long term car insurance.

Do a search on the forum for a thread by Nords. He had a heck of a time getting his dad's policy to pay - but they did.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

i know zero about this subject

i entered our ages and it says $300 a day and 5 years is the max i can apply for, premium about 6000 a year. the question is, do these policy premiums go up every year? or is it like term life insurance where the premium is fix for a certain time?

 

[Sunset]

i entered our ages and it says $300 a day and 5 years is the max i can apply for, premium about 6000 a year. the question is, do these policy premiums go up every year? or is it like term life insurance where the premium is fix for a certain time?

It's an odds thing. Most folks don't need it, then the ones who do generally spend a short time there.
It's just the few who go in and live another 10 years that really drain the inheritance pot.

As to the premium, they can increase whenever they want (sort of) and it's usually infrequent, but large jumps (like 50% higher).

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

It's an odds thing. Most folks don't need it, then the ones who do generally spend a short time there.
It's just the few who go in and live another 10 years that really drain the inheritance pot.

As to the premium, they can increase whenever they want (sort of) and it's usually infrequent, but large jumps (like 50% higher).

Thank you, based on my needs i think we will skip this item, i will kick it around with the bride see what she thinks. im thinking its a bad deal for us

 

[Golden sunsets]

I used the calculator to see what the premium would be if I were the same age today as I was when I purchased my policy in 2008. One key missing component though seems to be the annual increment. There was no field to choose the inflation rider. My own policy carries an inflation rider of 5% which is an important component of pricing. Unless I'm missing something, I don't think this tool enables me to compare apples to apples.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[REWahoo]

As to the premium, they can increase whenever they want (sort of) and it's usually infrequent, but large jumps (like 50% higher).

+1

DW and I purchased policies in 2000 and saw no increases until 2014. Premiums went up 50% that year followed by a 30% increase in 2016.

 

[joeea]

the question is, do these policy premiums go up every year? or is it like term life insurance where the premium is fix for a certain time?

Premiums don't go up for individuals, but can go up for the class within which you are placed.

In my state (and I would guess most states), approval is required to raise the rates on a class.

My wife and I have had LTCi for several years with no increase yet. Friends have seen their premiums increase once over 5 years.

 

[braumeister]

Thanks for the link to the calculator. It says we would be charged almost $10,000/yr for the policies we took out 17 years ago and are currently paying $2,275/yr.

Did you input your ages as of 17 years ago?

 

[imoldernu]

For anyone really considering LTC insurance, this short article may be helpful.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/insurance/long-term-care-insurance/

It does not cover increases in premiums, which may be the key question, but the last part of the article talks about the dramatic drop (from 100 to 12 insurers).

Aside that, our insurance premiums have gone up less than 10% since we enrolled in 1995. That said, our $100/day policy has cost (for the two of us), a total of about $42,000 since we enrolled. The pay out is for $36,000/year. We will keep both policies @age 80. (the logic is that if one of us goes in to a nursing home in the next 5 years the $10,000 policy cost over this period will still pay for itself. We budget for this.

Now, a little more background. We bought in 1995 after DW had a near death stroke. The policy was with Travelers Insurance... After that, in turn, the policy was taken over by MetLife, and then by Conseco... then, through another legal change, the policy was taken over by a Trust... SHIP a non profit Trust based in Indiana, but with offices in Pennsylvania.

SHIP- Welcome

This probably accounts for the low premium increases. (part of the legal constitution of the company.)

As I have mentioned in several posts, we would not buy into LTC again, knowing what we know now, but at the same time, are thankful that we made the decision 22+ years ago.

As in the case of any type of insurance, it's a bet against the odds. Obviously, with the demise of so many LTC corporations, it was a bet that didn't work out for their shareholders.

Edit to add this... For everyone who is seriously considering LTC... for alternate possibilities, and much info that could help in making a decision.

http://www.aaltci.org/

Links to state-specific info on costs.

 

[Marita40]

Today, I made a lot of nerdy charts calculating scenarios for what my Genworth LTC premiums might look like if I keep my policy without changes. My premium has risen 43% over the last 5 years. It is now $3400/year. I calculated it into the future with a 8% annual hike, a 10%, and a 15%. With the 8% (a conservative rise) I'll be paying a premium of $6813 at age 70; $10,008 at age 75; $14,702 at 80; $21,600 at 85.

I do have a generous policy, compounded at 5%, so the corresponding coverage at those ages is excellent. However, at the 8% I calculated, I will have paid Genworth a total of $67,458. at at 70, $110,618 at age 75; $174,000. at 80; $267,173. at 85. And again, we are talking about a conservative rise in premium--switch the calculation to 10% or 15%, which could easily be the reality, and you quickly realize premium payment alone will be a substantial retirement cost.
I don't know what to do...I have a strong sense that beginning to reduce benefits to keep premiums low is but a slippery slope to no real benefits at all. And the whole problem with Genworth's solvency in general.

 

[Idnar7]

No words of wisdom to help, I just don't envy your position. And then you have the problem of having someone to act as your advocate to actually collect. A real sad situation. Best wishes.

 

[nun]

I have a MetLife LTC policy that I took out at age 38 through an megacorp ex-employer. My annual premium is $336 and I have a benefit of $200/day for assisted living facility with a lifetime max of $365k.

 

[Golden sunsets]

I have a MetLife LTC policy that I took out at age 38 through an megacorp ex-employer. My annual premium is $336 and I have a benefit of $200/day for assisted living facility with a lifetime max of $365k.

At today's rates that's a great deal and the premium is pocket change. However with no inflation rider the annual nursing home cost when you reach your 80's may well dwarf the $365k lifetime cap.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[nun]

At today's rates that's a great deal and the premium is pocket change. However with no inflation rider the annual nursing home cost when you reach your 80's may well dwarf the $365k lifetime cap.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

Yes, in 30 years time (I'm 55 now) the payout from my plan might look pretty small. But it's something.

 

[Fedup]

I would have to pay over $5k per year. It doesn't have the max that I have which is $357 per day or something like that, max benefit is $350k. My premium is $155 per month, went up from $88 a month that purchased 5 years ago.

 

[imoldernu]

The devil is always in the details.
LTC... Long Term Care...
$100, $200, $300 perday...
For what?

If you have a policy, don't assume. What part of long term care is included?
Nursing Home?
Assisted Living?
in home care? If so, what kind of care? Hours/day? Household help? Medical/social health services? Healthcare aide? LPN?

The other part of LTC that has been discussed here, is obtaining the insurance company's approval and payment of the bills incurred... not always a "done" deal.

Here is a review from a dissatisfied customer from a LTC website. Yes.. I cherry-picked a negative from the website, but the same type of complaint was echoed in some of the better reviews. Just FWIW. At the very least, something to check before buying in or debating on whether to drop a current policy.

Lots of rules for claims and no one from the company communicates with customers. Followed the written instructions given for claims. Was told they no longer apply. Asked for the new rules in writing and was told that they could not send them. If you call to ask questions of different representatives they give differing answers. Not at all customer friendly. Did I say zero communication! Nothing you send in gets confirmed for receipt. Claims rejected get no notice, you have to keep up with what was not paid. Then when you call in and correct whatever issue they had with the claim and resubmit it gets denied again, with no notice or communication, did I say no communication. When you call back you are told it was denied due to the instruction of the person who said it was denied the first time and to resubmit the way it was done in the first place. Do not question them. They get irate and insinuate you are trying to falsify claims.

A more important question is the viability of LTC companies... With the reduction in issuing insurers... From a link in one of my posts, (above).

The number of insurance companies selling long-term care insurance has plummeted since 2000. More than 100 insurers were selling policies in the late 1990s, according to a 2016 study published by the National Association of Insurance Commissioners. By 2014, only 12 insurers were selling a significant number of policies to individuals, and just five were selling policies to groups, such as plans through workplaces.

The last point (made in many of the posts on this thread) is how inflation may affect future rates.