Medicare Premiums over Time

[Rianne]

I started a thread about Mutual of Omaha Medicare supplements and how they "close the book" on Medicare recipients and charge higher premiums over time.

I'd like a better understanding of Medicare supplement increases over time with various companies.

If you're interested in sharing:

What is your initial Medicare supplement premium compared to what you're paying today?

How long have you been on Medicare?

What company did you sign up with initially?

Did you change Medicare supplement companies because of premium increases?

Thanks, I'm new to Medicare and am in the window where I can change my supplement company without underwriting.

 

[REWahoo]

Rianne, I think you are attempting to know the unknowable. There are too many variables in how insurance companies price Medigap policies for the information you are seeking to be meaningful.

I've been on Medicare and had a Medigap policy for 10 years. I've spent way too much time researching the pros and cons of the various carriers and how they rate policies (community, attained age, etc.). I reached the conclusion that there are two basic strategies in how premiums are priced: You can pay more now or you can pay more later.

I chose to 'pay more later' by going with MoO. I've been with them four years (age 71 - 75) and have paid an average of $101/mo. There is no way to know before my expiration date if I made a good choice or would have spent less going with another carrier or a community rated plan. When I do learn which was the best choice it will be too late to do anything about it.

 

[Midpack]

Like REW notes, also past performance is no guarantee of future increases. All Medicare supplement providers have to adjust their premium prices to stay competitive or they won't have customers - but they may not adjust exactly in unison. You will find a few some seniors who have experienced larger increases, but that may not be a basis to choose another provider. Some folks may have past history that influences their costs as well, so you'd have to make sure you know that as well. And finally, you may know but it appears Medicare supplement premiums go up with age (attached) with attained age plans - which is what most people have. Community rated and issue age plans are not as common.

https://www.medicaresupplement.com/articles/average-cost-of-medicare-supplement-by-age/

Are Medicare Supplement Premiums Fixed?
Once you’ve decided on a provider and coverage, you’ll be presented with options that will determine your premiums. Three basic pricing structures exist:

• Community-rated premiums offer the same premium to everyone, and are not based on age.
• Issue-age premiums are fixed based on the age you purchase the plan, and do not go up automatically as you age.
• Attained-age-rated premiums get more expensive as you age. Issue-age premiums may be more expensive than attained-age- rated premiums at the outset, but attained-age premiums will surpass issue-age premiums as you get older.

Please note that all of these premiums can increase at any time. Medicare coinsurance and deductible amounts are set by the Centers for Medicaid and Medicare Services each year and can increase due to inflation, and other economic factors outside the provider’s control.

 

[Pluperfect]

Community-rated premiums offer the same premium to everyone, and are not based on age.

The only community-rated plans I've run across have discounts that are based on age, which means they do not offer the same premium to everyone and the premium is based on age.

Has anybody seen a plan that really does charge everybody with that plan the same premium regardless of their age, as in the exact same dollar amount comes out of every single person's account each month, whether they're 65 or 95?

 

[MBSC]

Has anybody seen a plan that really does charge everybody with that plan the same premium regardless of their age, as in the exact same dollar amount comes out of every single person's account each month, whether they're 65 or 95?

CT, VT and WA are community-rated states.

CT Medigap rates: https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/CID/1_LifeHealth/Medicare_Supplement_Insurance_Rates.pdf
WA rates: https://www.insurance.wa.gov/sites/default/files/documents/medicare-supp-plans_60.pdf
VT rates: https://dfr.vermont.gov/sites/finreg/files/doc_library/Copy%20of%20Copy%20of%20Copy%20of%20Copy%20of%20Medicare%20Supplement%20rates%20DO%20NOT%20Delete%20-%20Copy.pdf

NY is also community-rated but divided into regions. Everyone in that region pays the same rate.

NY Medigap rates (try zip code 10040): https://myportal.dfs.ny.gov/web/guest-applications/medicare-monthly-premiums

MA is community-rated but doesn't use letter plans: https://www.mass.gov/doc/2022-medicare-supplement-plan-listing/download

 

[sengsational]

I had all the same questions as the OP, but decided that staying out of the "sick duck pond" got me 90% of the way to medigap nirvana. IOW, if there's the slightest chance they'll close the book, and all the healthy ducks fly off, that's all I really wanted to avoid (for DW... I've not crossed that bridge myself).

So the decision was AARP/UHC. It's a hybrid pricing model, where the community price is known when you start, but there's a discount off that price that's big at the beginning, and gets smaller over time, very predictably.

I entertained a community priced policy but there were only two companies offering that model, and the one, "Doctor's" something or other, looked sleazy, based on non-medigap mailings that looked as if they were designed to mislead a bit. So nothing left but AARP/UHC or an attained age model, so landed on AARP/UHC.

 

[Andre1969]

I'm still working, and Medicare is a ways off for me, but I've been handling my uncle's payments for him. I handle a bunch of his bills online, keep a running total, and then he reimburses me every few months.

Looks like the first payment was back in January 2017. It was $183/mo, and that was to Carefirst.

He's still with Carefirst, but this year the payment jumped, from $263/mo to $289. It goes up June of every year. He was born in September of 1952 He went on disability at the end of 53, at the age of 61, due to kidney problems. So I'd guess that was when he went on Medicare?

I don't know what his premiums were, initially for the gap coverage, as I didn't start handling that particular bill until January 2017. Still, going from $183 to $289/mo is a pretty big jump for 5 years. That's about a 58% increase.

 

[audreyh1]

The only community-rated plans I've run across have discounts that are based on age, which means they do not offer the same premium to everyone and the premium is based on age.

Has anybody seen a plan that really does charge everybody with that plan the same premium regardless of their age, as in the exact same dollar amount comes out of every single person's account each month, whether they're 65 or 95?

You won’t find this because no one would buy it starting out. It would be too expensive compared to the competition. That’s why UHC/AARP came up with their discount model.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Rianne, I can’t find the cataracts thread but don’t get both eyes done a week apart which is what most doctors want you to do. Both my mom and my best friend had problems with the first eye and never got the second one done. It’s rare but it happens. My doctor pushed hard for me to do mine a week apart and I told him I was waiting 6 months to see if I was happy. It’s a easy quick procedure that goes well for most people.

 

[mf15]

Games get played. Wife had Atena Advantage plan 15 years ago. Atena cancelled all policies. Then the next year they started new plans,go figure. When this happened we went with a Geisinger supplement plan,then 2 years later they got out of the business, Now have Cigna Plan F HD for the past 7 years or so. Under $70/month so far, they have been good. Racked up 180K bill last year,medicare works pretty good. Now if only medicare would take care of dental.
Oldmike

 

[Pluperfect]

CT, VT and WA are community-rated states.

Aah, so it's a case where every supplement in the state is community-rated, and residents of that state have no choice to get any other kind? That actually seems kind of straightforward, and maybe even fair, if we're all in this together. Although premiums do differ among companies so it's not that straightforward.

And look at Connecticut, which is one of the few states where you can change your supplement at any time without medical underwriting. Colonial Penn has a Plan G for $630.01 per month, which is more than $200 more than the next most expensive Plan G anybody offers. Why would someone choose that Plan G?

And get this--Colonial Penn has a high-deductible Plan G for $66.65 per month. All that gets you is not having to pay a deductible of $2,490, but it costs you an extra $6,370 a year to get that. Why would someone do that?

I can see it happening in states where you can't switch plans without passing underwriting, and you're stuck with something that has changed since you bought it. But that's not the case in Connecticut.

I just can't understand it. My experience is that most people with Medicare don't really understand what it is they have, but this Colonial Penn thing is ridiculous. Is it possible the premium didn't start out so high but has changed and people just didn't get sticker shock and check to see what's going on? But they always scream when their car insurance goes up. Or maybe there are zero people who actually have it, and Colonial Penn "offers" it only because of some regulatory requirement? I just don't get it.

But speaking of understanding what you have...

I have a Texas Plan G with wellness benefits from AARP/UHC. It acts just like a regular Plan G, but also includes gym memberships, and the premium is $16/month higher than the regular Plan G. That makes sense.

BUT the age-related discount for the regular Plan G for a 65-year-old is 45%, while the discount for wellness benefits Plan G is 39%. And the ages at which the discounts decline and end are different: for example, regular Plan G's discount ends at age 86, while the wellness benefits Plan G's discount ends at age 81.

Maybe those difference could be explained somehow, but how about this one: the discount for using EFT is $4/month for regular Plan G and $2/month for wellness benefits Plan G. I can't fathom ANY reason for that.

 

[Grace Z]

Colonial Penn has a high-deductible Plan G for $66.65 per month. All that gets you is

This makes no sense. I pay $50.00/month HD-F with Cigna. I will pay the first 2360.00 (or whatever the deductible is), then Cigna pays 100%, just as Plan F would pay. Where does the extra $6,000 something in your post come from?

 

[teej1985]

This makes no sense. I pay $50.00/month HD-F with Cigna. I will pay the first 2360.00 (or whatever the deductible is), then Cigna pays 100%, just as Plan F would pay. Where does the extra $6,000 something in your post come from?

The referenced massively expensive G plan from Colonial Penn that costs $600/mo simply to avoid a ~$2400 deductible.

 

[lawman]

I started a thread about Mutual of Omaha Medicare supplements and how they "close the book" on Medicare recipients and charge higher premiums over time.

Can someone provide me a link to that thread please?

 

[MichaelB]

Can someone provide me a link to that thread please?

Is this the thread ? https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f38/medicare-moo-any-positive-experiences-115427.html

 

[CRLLS]

CT, VT and WA are community-rated states.

CT Medigap rates: https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/CID/1_LifeHealth/Medicare_Supplement_Insurance_Rates.pdf
WA rates: https://www.insurance.wa.gov/sites/default/files/documents/medicare-supp-plans_60.pdf
VT rates: https://dfr.vermont.gov/sites/finreg/files/doc_library/Copy%20of%20Copy%20of%20Copy%20of%20Copy%20of%20Medicare%20Supplement%20rates%20DO%20NOT%20Delete%20-%20Copy.pdf

NY is also community-rated but divided into regions. Everyone in that region pays the same rate.

NY Medigap rates (try zip code 10040): https://myportal.dfs.ny.gov/web/guest-applications/medicare-monthly-premiums

MA is community-rated but doesn't use letter plans: https://www.mass.gov/doc/2022-medicare-supplement-plan-listing/download

Just for kicks I checked out the CT rates. Imagine what I found. Omaha Insurance Company had the highest rate for Plan G. Guess who had the lowest. United Healtcare/AARP. Less than 1/2 of Omaha's rate.

edit: correction Colonial Penn is even higher than Omaha. Sorry for the error.

 

[jasg]

I started a thread about Mutual of Omaha Medicare supplements and how they "close the book" on Medicare recipients and charge higher premiums over time.

I'd like a better understanding of Medicare supplement increases over time with various companies.

If you're interested in sharing:

What is your initial Medicare supplement premium compared to what you're paying today?

> 2014 $70 (Plan F high-deductible)
> 2022 $105

That is a 50% increase, less than Part B. If I include premiums for Parts B & D, it is a 59% increase.

That means premiums have increased 3.5 times more than Social Security payments.

How long have you been on Medicare?

> nine years

What company did you sign up with initially?

> Premera - WA State

Premiums here are Community Rated, which seems to have a moderating affect on increases.

Did you change Medicare supplement companies because of premium increases?

> No

Thanks, I'm new to Medicare and am in the window where I can change my supplement company without underwriting.

 

[MBSC]

> 2014 $70 (Plan F high-deductible)
> 2022 $105

That is a 50% increase, less than Part B.

> Premera - WA State

Premiums here are Community Rated...

Washington state allows Medigap changes anytime without underwriting. Is there a reason why you haven't switched to the Premera HD-G at $50/month?

The $233 (2022) Part B deductible counts toward the $2490 (2022) HD-G deductible just like it does with HD-F. HD-G is open to all, not just those who became Medicare eligible in 2020 or later. The HD-G/HD-F deductible increases to $2700 in 2023.

Premera HD-G rate notice: https://www.premera.com/documents/051729.pdf

When can I switch plans?

If you're already enrolled in a Medigap plan B through N, you can switch at any time to another Medigap plan B through N...you do not have to take a written health screening questionnaire.

Reference: https://www.insurance.wa.gov/when-can-i-sign-or-switch-medigap-plans

 

[perinova]

CT, VT and WA are community-rated states.

CT Medigap rates: https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/CID/1_LifeHealth/Medicare_Supplement_Insurance_Rates.pdf
WA rates: https://www.insurance.wa.gov/sites/default/files/documents/medicare-supp-plans_60.pdf
VT rates: https://dfr.vermont.gov/sites/finreg/files/doc_library/Copy%20of%20Copy%20of%20Copy%20of%20Copy%20of%20Medicare%20Supplement%20rates%20DO%20NOT%20Delete%20-%20Copy.pdf


NY is also community-rated but divided into regions. Everyone in that region pays the same rate.

NY Medigap rates (try zip code 10040): https://myportal.dfs.ny.gov/web/guest-applications/medicare-monthly-premiums

MA is community-rated but doesn't use letter plans: https://www.mass.gov/doc/2022-medicare-supplement-plan-listing/download

There are more states with facilities to change Medigap plan: The list I knew: On the west coast: CA, NV, OR and Wash allow to switch plan part of the year.
There is also ID, MO and IL.
And on the East shore: ME, NY CT and NY.

If you are living in another state I would suggest to call you state representative to avoid being taken hostage.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I am thinking of switching to a high deductible G plan for 52/month versus my plan f that goes up 20/month every year that costs 199/month. I don’t go to the doctor a lot but my primary, allergist and pulmonary doctor usually make me come in yearly to keep renewing my medication.

In addition I get cpap supplies and blood work yearly. I am having difficulty figuring out if I will save money or actually pay more. Any input would be appreciated. I looked at past claims but don’t know if I would have to pay the Medicare approved amount or the amount Medicare would normally actually pay until I meet my deductible.

 

[MBSC]

I am thinking of switching to a high deductible G plan for 52/month versus my plan f that goes up 20/month every year that costs 199/month. I don’t go to the doctor a lot but my primary, allergist and pulmonary doctor usually make me come in yearly to keep renewing my medication.

In addition I get cpap supplies and blood work yearly. I am having difficulty figuring out if I will save money or actually pay more. Any input would be appreciated. I looked at past claims but don’t know if I would have to pay the Medicare approved amount or the amount Medicare would normally actually pay until I meet my deductible.

With HD-G, Medicare still pays 80% of the approved amount after the $226 (2023) Part B deductible has been met. You will be responsible for the amount Plan F has been paying until the 20% coinsurance plus $226 total $2700 (2023). Then, HD-G pays the 20%. The $2700 acts more like a MOOP and is subject to an inflation adjustment each year.

Preventive services and services paid from the lab fee schedule are exempt from the Part B 20% coinsurance so you should see that nothing was paid by Plan F for these charges.

 

[fh2000]

I am thinking of switching to a high deductible G plan for 52/month versus my plan f that goes up 20/month every year that costs 199/month. I don’t go to the doctor a lot but my primary, allergist and pulmonary doctor usually make me come in yearly to keep renewing my medication.

In addition I get cpap supplies and blood work yearly. I am having difficulty figuring out if I will save money or actually pay more. Any input would be appreciated. I looked at past claims but don’t know if I would have to pay the Medicare approved amount or the amount Medicare would normally actually pay until I meet my deductible.

I am currently on Plan G. I am eligible to switch in January thanks to California's birthday rule. I am thinking of switching to HD-G.

One thing I am thinking that might get some of my money back is thru HSA withdraw. Currently, Plan G premium is not eligible for HSA withdraw, but if I switch to HD-G, the expense paid to satisfy the higher deductible should be eligible, so at least I can get some money back.

Let me know if my thinking is on the right track.

PS. On 2nd thought, HSA money is my own money. I will get it back sooner or later. With HD-G plan, it just means I will get some back earlier.

 

[audreyh1]

Do you use your HSA to pay or reimburse your Medicare Part B and D premiums?

 

[fh2000]

Do you use your HSA to pay or reimburse your Medicare Part B and D premiums?

yes

 

[Teacher Terry]

MNSC, thanks so much! That makes my decision very easy as unless I am hospitalized with big bills I will do better on the high deductible plan.