Medigap plan G vs plan N

[sengsational]

Average Rate Increases of Plans F, G and N

There's a site called where the very dedicated person can learn a lot about historic rate increases, closed books of business, and much more:

https://www.serff.com/serff_filing_access.htm

I did NOT try to dig out specifics from this site, but if I had know about it before I bought my medigap policy, I would have used it.

The way I learned about it was from a video from this channel:

https://www.youtube.com/@GiardiniMedicare

A specific video (The Hidden Truth to Finding the Best Medicare Supplement Company) was very informative, especially about rate increases between open and closed books of business as well as between different plan letters.

For the purposes of this thread (G vs N), that specific video had a few graphics. The one I found most informative is below showing plan N increases have been smaller than G.

So irrespective of whether guaranteed issue business includes a higher proportion of sicker people, it's clear that you can expect higher increases with a Plan-G vs a Plan-N. In the Telos Actuarial graphic, I multiplied it out. If you bought in 2020, the Plan-G person had a 32% increase over 4 years, and the Plan-N person had a 24% increase over the same 4 years.

 

[Texas Proud]

Sure, if there were not rules it would be tempting to sign up for the cheaper MA option while healthy then switch to traditional when in poor health. There are no actual facts supporting the speculation that this will affect G rates relative to N. I find it hard to believe that many folks that get seriously ill will be moving to get away from their MA plan.

I will just chime in here a bit...


There are videos out there that the insurance brokers that people talk about here actually say that it can be (and might have been) a problem... I will go with the experts on if it will affect rates on G to them...

 

[walkinwood]

That's great information, Sengsational! Thanks for sharing your research

 

[sengsational]

That's great information, Sengsational! Thanks for sharing your research

Once I get going, I can't stop! Here's a quote and link to time 20:53 in the video where you can listen to the N vs G thing for yourself. I trust this guy (and I'm pretty skeptical).

Generally speaking, consumers needing to use guaranteed issue rights, they have more medical needs and more medical claims than those not using guaranteed issue. And these consumers, in most cases, will have to enroll in a Plan-G instead of a Plan-N. ... The overall medical claims of consumers enrolled in a medigap plan letter, they are the large driving force behind future premium increases. So Plan-N enrollees, they tend to have the advantage of lower overall medical claims compared to Plan-G which shows medigap Plan-N, on average, continues to have a lower percentage of medical claims compared to medigap Plan-G.

https://youtu.be/S29PdLxpUi0?t=1253

The video shows that over 25 years, Plan-G would cost $96K and Plan-N would cost $66K (based on historical price increases, of course, and some generalizations about the extra copays of Plan-N). None the less, many customers of this broker, who exposes buyers to the facts indicating Plan-N the better long-term value, still choose Plan-G! The broker suggests that it comes down to a personal preference associated with the greater predictability that comes with a Plan-G. And that's a "thing", no doubt.

 

[REWahoo]

That's great information, Sengsational! Thanks for sharing your research

Agreed, much appreciated!

Too bad for me that I didn't have this info when selecting a Medigap plan/provider years ago, but I take some consolation in the fact I at least did go with plan N.

 

[RetiredHappy]

If you move, and you provide proof of coverage, you should be able to get into any Medicare policy without underwriting, irrespective of any number of years. I'm not a huge fan of brokers for people that aren't well-informed beforehand, but if you know what you want, I'd call a broker and they know how to make sure you get the guaranteed issue rates.

It is not true. We moved and my husband was subject to underwriting when he applied for Supplement Plan F, after he had been with Kaiser in CA. He ended up being accepted by at 3X the regular rate. We worked with a broker who was highly recommended by our broker in CA.

 

[sengsational]

It is not true. We moved and my husband was subject to underwriting when he applied for Supplement Plan F, after he had been with Kaiser in CA. He ended up being accepted by at 3X the regular rate. We worked with a broker who was highly recommended by our broker in CA.

Sorry to hear of the big price increase. I realized that you can't get "any" Medicare plan when you move, so certainly I was wrong about that, but I thought that you could get a replacement plan without underwriting if you had the proof from your former Medicare policy, and that you bought the replacement policy within a certain limited time frame.


ETA: Your husband went from a non-traditional Medicare to Traditional Medicare. I guess you can't do that without underwriting.

 

[Dash man]

Here’s a YouTube video that explains it a bit better with the page on Medicare.gov used as reference.

https://youtu.be/L9z8Y93v0rc?si=ZG4bBR7wmGpIlHBh

 

[sengsational]

ETA: Your husband went from a non-traditional Medicare to Traditional Medicare. I guess you can't do that without underwriting.

I should have said "couldn't do that at the time"; your reference to Plan-F suggests it might have been under an older set of laws.

The medicare site does spell it out pretty clearly if you click on the "guaranteed issue rights" link on this page https://www.medicare.gov/health-drug-plans/medigap/ready-to-buy

 

[walkinwood]

I found this Youtube video by a retired guy who compares Plans G & N. He shows the analysis he did to make that decision and states that 2 years in, he's happy with his choice.


An interesting data point - the co-pays in plan N are legislated to be $20/doc vist & $50/ER visit. They are not indexed for inflation.



If nothing else, you can get an idea of how to get started on your analysis of the costs of the two plans.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Sorry to hear of the big price increase. I realized that you can't get "any" Medicare plan when you move, so certainly I was wrong about that, but I thought that you could get a replacement plan without underwriting if you had the proof from your former Medicare policy, and that you bought the replacement policy within a certain limited time frame.


ETA: Your husband went from a non-traditional Medicare to Traditional Medicare. I guess you can't do that without underwriting.

We moved from one state to another when we wanted to make the switch.

 

[sengsational]

We moved from one state to another when we wanted to make the switch.

Were you considering moving anyway? I figure lots of people move in retirement (down-size, move nearer the kids, etc). The fact that you can get out of a limited network plan that might not be optimally treating a health condition just adds to the calculus for moving. But even if the health coverage was the only reason for the move, it can make sense on a purely financial basis, irrespective of quality of care.

 

[troutnut1]

excess charges is a giant nothingburger used by unscrupulous sales people to get the larger commissions on plan G. It’s also easier to explain. I’ll gladly pay my own deductible and mild copays to keep from losing my plan later to excess increases brought about by the sicker pool of the guaranteed issue plan g.

 

[zaqxsw]

UNC/AARP has confirmed to me that in Ohio that I can downgrade to Plan "N" anytime I want. I would not be able to upgrade to Plan "G" without underwriting. I would not be able to pass underwriting.

I would always want the option to downgrade vs upgrade past my guaranteed period. Recent events have made me glad I have Plan "G".

 

[Ian S]

So the following is my experience with respect to Plan G increases. I have been on Plan G from AARP/UHC for over seven years. In April 2017, my premium was $150.42. In April, 2024, seven years later, my premium is $209.57. Note that includes the effect of the annual and significant loss of the premium discount as well as normal annual premium increases. By my calculation, that works out to about a 5% annual compounded rate of increase. I can live with that and, in a few years, after I lose the remaining discount, annual increases may be even less.

 

[meleana]

We opted for G , but we know a couple with N who’s had no issues with it. Our state of NH doesn’t allow excess charges anyway.

 

[audreyh1]

This has been a very informative thread, thanks!

 

[walkinwood]

It has been very informative indeed.


If you can afford the Plan G premiums today and could afford 2x to 3x the premiums in the future, it is definitely the simpler of the two plans.


The amount you potentially save with a plan N may not mean much to someone with the means to afford the increases in Plan G premiums.

On the other hand, if there is a high probability that you can get the same medical care for less, shouldn't you go with Plan N?

Decisions, decisions! I have a year and a half to go to make this decision.

 

[VanWinkle]

Thank you for all of your replies. This should help with SO decision on G vs N. I have UHC Advantage for 4 years now. I had an abdominal aortic aneurysm repaired with a total cost of 178,000 billed. Overnight stay and large stint installed through both groins. I paid one 30.00 copay to the surgeon and 295.00 for the hospital stay. I am in a PPO plan that is identical to my work plan as far as doctors and hospitals are concerned. It works great for me, but I do respect those that have decided to take all payment risk out of their health choices. SO has several health concerns and is risk adverse, so a Medigap seems to be perfect for her.

Regards to all that offered help,

VW

 

[audreyh1]

I’m just trying to keep things as simple as possible for the older us. Plan F would have been even better.

 

[single2019]

It has been very informative indeed.


If you can afford the Plan G premiums today and could afford 2x to 3x the premiums in the future, it is definitely the simpler of the two plans.


The amount you potentially save with a plan N may not mean much to someone with the means to afford the increases in Plan G premiums.

On the other hand, if there is a high probability that you can get the same medical care for less, shouldn't you go with Plan N?

Decisions, decisions! I have a year and a half to go to make this decision.

I highly recommend that people go Medicare.gov and compare the premiums for plan N and G for the same insurance provider, before making a decision.

My Plan N premium is $112/month and Plan G would have been $168/month (both UHC). That covers a lot of copays! Remember that copays are only for Physician and ER visits and not for Labs and Imaging etc.

 

[MichaelB]

I’m just trying to keep things as simple as possible for the older us. Plan F would have been even better.

Simplicity is high on my list as well, as I assume DW will outlive me. She’s been reluctant to get into the nitty gritty of our health insurance and I want to make sure her liability is limited. That’s why we have G.

I did look into changing her plan late last year. She passed the UHC/AARP underwriting, but their pricing is age-attained, so the savings are no longer meaningful.

 

[anethum]

The difference between AARP/UHC Plan G and Plan N in my area is $26/month. After handling my elderly parents bills, doctor's appointments, ER trips, and hospitalizations for years, I don't want to add any additional work for myself or anyone who might be stuck handling my own affairs in the future. It's also great not receiving any medical bills after my first two doctor's visits each year.

 

[Ian S]

The difference between AARP/UHC Plan G and Plan N in my area is $26/month. After handling my elderly parents bills, doctor's appointments, ER trips, and hospitalizations for years, I don't want to add any additional work for myself or anyone who might be stuck handling my own affairs in the future. It's also great not receiving any medical bills after my first two doctor's visits each year.

Exactly! My feelings as well. I average 6-8 doctors visits annually - two with my GP and two with my dermatologist alone. I'm well into my 70's and sorting through niggling/small bills and making sure they are valid and then get paid takes time that, IMHO, could be much better spent. Furthermore, my personal experience with the AARP/UHC Plan G over a period of seven years has not demonstrated the huge increases that have been postulated in this thread. Could you save a some money with Plan N? Sure, and if you are in a position where every dollar saved is critical, then by all means go with Plan N. However, if you're at a position in life where time has become more important than money, then a Plan G might be a better option.