Mom had a stroke. What do I do now?

[mountainsoft]

Then they staged an advertised "garage sale" which let the masses pick through things and pay small amounts. Then they had a dumpster delivered to the driveway and put everything else in it and had it carted away.

The place was invested with fleas, cats, a huge bee hive in the attic

A garage sale would be too much work from a distance, and she really doesn't have anything worth selling anyway. In the future we may try selling some of her smaller belongings.

I do think we'll end up having to get a dumpster. Right now we've just been bagging up garbage and storing it in the garage. We've already got over ten large bags from just two rooms.

Thankfully, she didn't have any pets and we haven't seen any signs of insects anywhere.

 

[Walt34]

I'm not planning to do any repairs to the house. Selling As-Is.

When dealing with the elder law attorney about FIL's issues and the house, another option is to sell the house at auction if the house just sits with no offers. For us the house sold in three or four days so we got lucky, but an auction is an option too. At least in MD, Medicaid would have had no issues with doing it that way.

 

[Sunset]

A garage sale would be too much work from a distance, and she really doesn't have anything worth selling anyway. In the future we may try selling some of her smaller belongings.

I do think we'll end up having to get a dumpster. Right now we've just been bagging up garbage and storing it in the garage. We've already got over ten large bags from just two rooms.

Thankfully, she didn't have any pets and we haven't seen any signs of insects anywhere.

I hope you have some signed piece of paper stating you can do this, otherwise it's illegal and could turn really bad for you.

 

[Walt34]

I hope you have some signed piece of paper stating you can do this, otherwise it's illegal and could turn really bad for you.

Well, maybe. We had a POA for FIL's stuff, but his mother is in a nursing home and it seems she's unlikely to ever leave. To sell the house either he'll need a POA or she will have to sign the paperwork, if she's able to at the time. As for now, yeah technically I guess it could be called burglary, trespassing, destruction of property and the like, but given the circumstances I don't see anyone bringing any charges.

Another, and probably expensive, option is for him to obtain a court-ordered POA. It gets expensive because judges are (rightfully) reluctant to take away someone's rights without a very high standard of proof, and that requires time-consuming testimony from at least a couple of doctors.

 

[mountainsoft]

To sell the house either he'll need a POA or she will have to sign the paperwork, if she's able to at the time. As for now, yeah technically I guess it could be called burglary, trespassing, destruction of property and the like, but given the circumstances I don't see anyone bringing any charges.

At some point I do need to get a POA, but I have no idea where I would obtain one? Any tips?

Mom gave me her purse and keys to the house, along with encouragement to clean it out. So, no legal worries. Just following her instructions.

 

[Sunset]

At some point I do need to get a POA, but I have no idea where I would obtain one? Any tips?

Mom gave me her purse and keys to the house, along with encouragement to clean it out. So, no legal worries. Just following her instructions.

Aren't the POA at the state website, so you download and fill in the name and sign it ?

 

[mountainsoft]

Aren't the POA at the state website, so you download and fill in the name and sign it ?

State website? I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Mom still isn't able to sign her name after her stroke, even though she is of sound mind. What do I do about that?

I assume a POA would need to be notarized, but she is two hours away from me. I could easily take the form somewhere and sign it in front of a notary, but she doesn't have that option. In addition, I live in Washington, her home and documents are in Washington, but she is currently in rehab in Oregon?

Once I have a POA, what do I do with it? Do I need to take it with me anytime I go to her bank, or present it during other financial transactions?

I don't know anything about POA's, so any info would be appreciated.

 

[evilanne]

A garage sale would be too much work from a distance, and she really doesn't have anything worth selling anyway. In the future we may try selling some of her smaller belongings.

I do think we'll end up having to get a dumpster. Right now we've just been bagging up garbage and storing it in the garage. We've already got over ten large bags from just two rooms.

Thankfully, she didn't have any pets and we haven't seen any signs of insects anywhere.

Is there anyone in the area that does estate sales? You may be right in that there isn't much of value but it doesn't hurt to get a second opinion and they will do it for a percentage of the proceeds if they can make money off of it--you don't even have to be there.

 

[Sunset]

Here in IL, the State of IL has a website and on it they have POA forms, you download the form, fill it out and the person signs it.
For example here in IL:
https://www.illinois.gov/sites/gac/Forms/Pages/Forms.aspx
https://www.illinois.gov/aging/AboutUs/Pages/legal_adv-directives.aspx

I know in Canada, the Province of Ontario has the same thing a gov't website with the approved legal forms (which don't require a notary). So I bet many States have it as well.

So perhaps WA has it too.

When you have this, you simply show it to the bank (they may photocopy it to cover their butts) and then you can do whatever that person could do as you are acting in their place.

If it's just the banking you are thinking about, then phone her bank and ask if they have an official power of Attorney they could supply for you to fill out (if the State does not have one).

 

[akck]

Here's a link to POAs:

WashingtonLawHelp.org | Free legal information and self-help materials and a guide to legal aid programs in Washington.

This might be useful too:

Washington Probate --- Washington State Probate Instructions & Forms

Be aware that your mother can have another stroke at any time, so try to get all legal documents taken care of immediately, while she can still sign them. My FIL HAD a stroke shortly after his wife died. He partially lost the ability to talk, but was able to function. His speech was improving, but 3 months later, he had another stroke, losing all speech and most motion ability. He ended up in a nursing home until he passed away, unable to communicate any wishes. The only saving grace was all his legal documents where in order.

 

[athena53]

Two things on getting a POA signed: if she can't sign her name she may be able to just sign with an X and provide proper ID to the notary. (This was much more common back when more people were illiterate but certainly there has to be a process for stroke survivors.) There are also notaries who will come to a location- do a search on "mobile notary (your area)". I had one come to the house when DH was too ill to go out- it was $25, but worth not moving DH. If you talk to the notary beforehand, he/she should be able to tell you what the applicable state laws are when someone can't write their full signature.

The usual caveat: I am not an attorney, but I worked for one for 3 summers when I was in college and I haven't killed all those brain cells yet!

 

[street]

This is a tough situation you are in and I feel for you. If it were me I would try to help her in every way I could. She is your mother and the past is the past. Even if she wasn't your mother she does need someone in her life for support and some help.

 

[mountainsoft]

Here's a link to POAs
Be aware that your mother can have another stroke at any time, so try to get all legal documents taken care of immediately, while she can still sign them.

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out. A week ago she wouldn't have been able to sign anything. She has improved a lot and I think she might be able to now, albeit a little scribbly.

Her doctor already said she is at risk of another stroke, so planning for that.

She does have a will (30+ years old) that lists me as executor. I am also listed as the recipient of her belongings since her husband and parents are already dead.

 

[mountainsoft]

Another interesting issue regarding mom's stuff. We were planning to rent a storage unit to keep all of her larger furniture items. I checked yesterday and even a 10'x10' unit runs around $175 a month. Ouch. I remember paying $10/month for our 5x5 many years ago. Inflation sucks!

We don't have any room to store her things, and $175/month could get expensive fast. So I'm thinking of building a small shed to keep her stuff in. More work and expense up front, but would save money long term.

 

[Sunset]

An 8x12 shed will cost about $1,000 to build a basic one if you do the work yourself, if you add vinyl siding it would be an extra $800. But you would have a nice shed later.

Is her stuff really worth that much to save, if you go to an estate sale, you will find the treasured things are worth at best 20 cents on the dollar, often just 10 cents. However there is the emotional attachment part, and that she might get better and want to go home ?

 

[Walt34]

At some point I do need to get a POA, but I have no idea where I would obtain one? Any tips?

You'll need to see an elder law/estate attorney. POA's are very much state-specific because state laws vary. As for whether it has to be specific to Oregon or Washington state, I think that would be determined by what her legal residence is now, but that is a question for an attorney. They should be willing to answer that question over the phone for free, it's a simple jurisdiction issue. Since you live in Washington and her current legal residence is probably still Washington, I'd start there. And you won't have to drive two hours.

As for getting things notarized I'm sure notaries have dealt with nursing home situations before and will go there. The fee will of course be a bit higher for travel time but that's what it is. The nursing home may even have one on staff, it's worth asking.

 

[omni550]

You've gotten a lot of good suggestions re: POA.

A few years ago, my sister and I went to Canada to visit our elderly uncle and found a social worker at his home. (Not sure who called the social worker, perhaps it was the renter who rented a room in his house or a concerned neighbor).

Anyhoo, the social worker had a Province of Ontario POA booklet and the back page was the POA form. IIRC, it needed to be signed by our uncle and two disinerested witnesses....plus there were check boxes on the POA as to medical or financial POA.

After the POA was signed by our uncle and appropriately witnessed, we made a boatload of copies, as we needed them at every turn (banks, investment companies, post office, utilities, getting him into his new 'home' in the assisted living center, doctors, etc.).

Time is of the essence, considering your mother's condition.

Good luck.

omni

 

[imoldernu]

I guess that the reverse mortgage option wouldn't work here, a mom would not be living in the home. Many negatives of course, but based on the estimated value and the equity, seems that it might have been an option earlier, even if the dollars would have been less than would be recovered with an outright sale.

While this won't work for mountainsoft, it appears that others have been or could be in a similar situation.

I have looked at a few reviews of actual cases, and while it wouldn't be my first option, I can see where it might be a simpler resolution for a cash flow shortage.

Could be a subject for separate thread.

 

[meierlde]

State website? I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Mom still isn't able to sign her name after her stroke, even though she is of sound mind. What do I do about that?

I assume a POA would need to be notarized, but she is two hours away from me. I could easily take the form somewhere and sign it in front of a notary, but she doesn't have that option. In addition, I live in Washington, her home and documents are in Washington, but she is currently in rehab in Oregon?

Once I have a POA, what do I do with it? Do I need to take it with me anytime I go to her bank, or present it during other financial transactions?

I don't know anything about POA's, so any info would be appreciated.

In the case where she can't verbally express her consent a POA can't be obtained, you need guardianship instead. A POA takes a person who can express consent. Now if she can make a mark, it can be witnessed (the way things were done with folks who were illiterate but could verbally consent, might make a legal poa but you need an attorney in the state of residence. Typically that would be the state the house is in in that presumably if everything went exceedingly well she would intend to return there.
After that at least call an estate sale company and ask if they think you could break even on a sale (they likley would want to walk thru the house).
Given that they are often things that you don't know have value (witness american pickers etc, unless you are in the Antique business having an evaluaton might be worth while. You might be suprised about old toys etc)

The idea is to see if the cost of the sale will cover the cost of hauling the rest to the dump. Or you could find your local house flipper and sell for a low price, and let the flipper clean up (happens a lot with foreclosed houses they buy, they just haul in a dumpster and go to town)

 

[EastWest Gal]

You need a POA ASAP. You can do a boiler plate one, but I think you should use an elder law attorney. Many attorneys have access to notaries. And there may be a notary at the rehab facility. My dad's attorney's secretary is a notary. He did a lot of elder-law work, and I occasionally saw him visiting clients at my dad's assisted living place.

There are some lawyer websites that can give good information.

Before you sell mom's house, have you considered where she will live after leaving the rehab? She won't be there permanently. Medicare pays zero after 100 days. And she could have significant recovery. Nursing home may be the long term solution, but you'll have to start looking.

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/medicare-coverage-of-skilled-nursing-facility-153265.htm

Regarding the furniture-what are you keeping it for?You could sell it, donate it, or haul it away if it's in bad shape. You might check the local classifieds or Craig's list. Some haulers will haul away stuff for free, because they can sell some of it. Profitable for them, less headache for you. Lots of my dad's stuff went that way. It was great-no labor on our part.

 

[MBAustin]

As for getting things notarized I'm sure notaries have dealt with nursing home situations before and will go there. The fee will of course be a bit higher for travel time but that's what it is. The nursing home may even have one on staff, it's worth asking.

+1. The nursing home my mother was in had a staff member with notary powers for just this reason. The social services folks should be able to help find someone if there is no one on staff.

It sounds as though things are going better than expected given the initial situation. And it seems healthy for all that you are able to reconnect after all these years. Keep up the good work!

 

[Bestwifeever]

Really sorry about your situation with your mother, from before the stroke to today. It actually sounds like you will have a better relationship with her now than if she had remained physically healthy.

Also so glad you resolved things with your DD and are charging her a reasonable rent. You are indirectly teaching her some important things about responsibility and also about family as you care for both your and your DW's mothers the next few years. Well done.

 

[mountainsoft]

We are meeting with an Elder Law Attorney tomorrow afternoon. Things were starting to get really confusing with the Medicaid stuff and how to handle things across state lines. I'm hoping he can get us setup with a POA so we can pay off bills and start closing some accounts. I also hope he'll be able to give us some advice on how to best handle the Medicaid situation.

As for moving the furniture, the Medicaid office wants the house cleared and up for sale before June 26th. But we don't know what mom's housing situation is going to be yet. We might end up inheriting one or two items, and unload the rest once we know what she does or doesn't need.

 

[aja8888]

Two anecdotes:

Recently in my neighborhood, a family from the east bought a house sight unseen that had been foreclosed on. They showed up and the previous owner was still in it. The story I got was he hadn't paid anything in 5 years and was a hoarder. The place was [-]invested[/-] infested with fleas, cats, a huge bee hive in the attic (my wife talked to 3 beekeepers outside the house deciding if they had enough people to take care of the aggressive hive), a backed up sewage pipe, upstairs toilet that had leaked feces and created a collapsed ceiling, a covered swimming pool full of gunk, algae, turtles (size of dinner plates), frogs, and tadpoles, and the other usual hoarder stuff. The new owners got the sheriff to physically remove the squatter and moved everything they could to the driveway where it got picked over and then called a company to have leftovers hauled away. Then the joys of clean-up and renovation could begin.

Oh my.....seeing we live in the same area.....was the squatter's name Joe (heavy set, unkept, glasses) who drove an old white Suburban? Strange as it may seen, if it's him, I knew him years ago.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

We are meeting with an Elder Law Attorney tomorrow afternoon. Things were starting to get really confusing with the Medicaid stuff and how to handle things across state lines. I'm hoping he can get us setup with a POA so we can pay off bills and start closing some accounts. I also hope he'll be able to give us some advice on how to best handle the Medicaid situation.

As for moving the furniture, the Medicaid office wants the house cleared and up for sale before June 26th. But we don't know what mom's housing situation is going to be yet. We might end up inheriting one or two items, and unload the rest once we know what she does or doesn't need.

Smart, smart idea. There are lots of really smart people on this forum but I have yet to see anyone who can dispense legal advice regarding YOUR somewhat complicated situation (not trying to offend those trying to help, I am talking about people who are actually licensed to practice law in WA or OR). Add in the multiple jurisdictions and the question of getting an attorney becomes a no brainer.