Most Americans have less than $1000 in savings?

[AllDone]

Yes, that was obvious to me.



And did the millennials you are talking about pursue an in-demand degree? If not, what should they expect? I should just buy their 'product', even if I don't need/want it? I bet you don't do that either.

-ERD50

I pursued an about-to-be-in-demand degree (my parents thought that studying computers was a waste of time!) The advantage that I had over millenials was that it was virtually free thanks to the taxpayers of California so I didn't graduate with any debt despite self-financing my education -- no grants, aid, loans or scholarships or parental support, just regular in-state tuition. Since I graduated, minimum wage has tripled and tuition at the UC has increased 11-12 fold. Our nephews just graduated this year from a relatively inexpensive, east coast private school with "in-demand degrees" and tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt.

 

[Amethyst]

Just an observation: We are always shocked when we drive outside of the Baltimore-Washington-Northern VA area. Less than 2 hours from where we live, most folks seem (based on what can be seen from a car) to be living in near-poverty. It is as if certain metropolitan areas suck up all the nation's money and vitality, and the rest of the Americans are scrabbling to hang on.

 

[Amethyst]

I thought I didn't want to replace our perfectly good formica countertops with granite, because the speckled gray "builder grade" granite I saw in most homes is not as good-looking as high-grade formica. Then, someone brought in photos of their new countertops, and I started thinking about possibilities.

I am a rocks-and-minerals gal, and fell in love with the fanciest granite in the warehouse.

Seven years later, I still get a thrill from the patterns and colors in those countertops. I just love looking at them. There are whole areas that I've given nicknames to. There are patterns of feldspar that resemble letters and ideograms, an area of pink granite that my sister says looks like a Michigan road map, a cluster of hexagonal black crystals, and all the different veins and spots of glittering mica.

It was worth the money just for the entertainment value!

Y
I'd bet that our granite counters actually cost less than having formica put in. 0

 

[Amethyst]

Like the old fairy story about the never-empty purse: The owner didn't appear rich, because his purse only had one silver piece in it, but as soon as the owner spent that coin, another appeared in its place.

I
But on topic--today we have $783 in our savings account. It will go below that as it will join our checking account balance to pay a credit card with $6k in travel costs, but it will go back up the next week when pension and SS are deposited. .

 

[rodi]

I have no desire for granite. That said, we spent almost as much for stainless counter tops. Sure it's taste specific - but we like to cook, and it's a very practical choice. Ironic that it's now showing up in design magazines as the next big thing - but when we did it, it was considered weird and lesser.

 

[ERD50]

...

I am a rocks-and-minerals gal, and fell in love with the fanciest granite in the warehouse. ...

With the screen name Amethyst, I never would have guessed!

I thought I didn't want to replace our perfectly good formica countertops with granite, because the speckled gray "builder grade" granite I saw in most homes is not as good-looking as high-grade formica. Then, someone brought in photos of their new countertops, and I started thinking about possibilities.

I am a rocks-and-minerals gal, and fell in love with the fanciest granite in the warehouse.

Seven years later, I still get a thrill from the patterns and colors in those countertops. I just love looking at them. There are whole areas that I've given nicknames to. There are patterns of feldspar that resemble letters and ideograms, an area of pink granite that my sister says looks like a Michigan road map, a cluster of hexagonal black crystals, and all the different veins and spots of glittering mica.

It was worth the money just for the entertainment value!

Yes, personal taste and all, and depends on the situation, but I'm not a fan of the 'speckled' granite. We got a type (Thunder Blue) deep blue/black with lighter areas and veining, and all sorts of random things, coppery looking specks and swirls etc. I was surprised one day to slide the timer across the surface, and have it 'stick' in one place. There are areas of high iron content, and the magnet on the timer 'grabbed' those spots.

It's similar to the grain pattern in wood. Very randomized and interesting. We selected our slabs, the only one we rejected was one that had two spots that looked like owl's eyes. DW didn't want that staring back at her! It might of actually looked nice, but a little to 'stand out', and we didn't want to risk it. I don;t think we've named any of the patterns we have though, hmmm, might take a stab at that now! Very happy with what we have. One of the best remodel things we've done. And at $5,000 with tear out and install, for a large complex kitchen, with lots of finished edging, I really can't imagine trying to cut back on it.

-ERD50

 

[Bestwifeever]

..

Seven years later, I still get a thrill from the patterns and colors in those countertops. I just love looking at them. There are whole areas that I've given nicknames to. There are patterns of feldspar that resemble letters and ideograms, an area of pink granite that my sister says looks like a Michigan road map, a cluster of hexagonal black crystals, and all the different veins and spots of glittering mica....

I love this too--so much depth, so much appeal to me in the flowing areas to carry my eye. Probably the same thing that makes other people dislike granite in general

 

[ziggy29]

Yup I did say $40k (just a number at this point daughter isn't engaged) but I also said I'd rather put they put the money into a house. I deplore big wasteful weddings...

DW and I were married cheaply in a park with a justice of the peace, with a few dozen close friends and family, with a small reception at my in-laws' house -- no expensive venues, no caterers, no wedding planners. I recall paying about $1,500 for the ring (in 1992) and that cost more than all the other aspects of the wedding combined. My FIL gave us a $1,000 wedding gift, partly (he said) in gratitude for getting married on the cheap!

 

[karen1972]

One other odd nugget is my parents for example. My father saved $20k when he was young and bought a large machine and started a business. He made poverty wages his entire life as all money was re-invested in the business. What extra money we had he bought stuff, but stuff he felt was stuff he needed, a lawn mower for the acre we lived on, a new welder so he could do repairs, etc. He's sees it as "value" as his stuff still works and in the end he can sell it for something (except now he realizes 20-40 yr old stuff doesn't really sell for anything). That is how so many people I know are.. especially if your rural and used to living on a farm. You assume either you'll sell the farm and take those proceeds or keep working.

My fathers business had no pension, no 401k, no nothing so he had not a penny to his name when he turned 65 other than his home and a business he couldn't sell. Ironically he kept working because my mother was only 55 and he couldn't get health care for her else .. so only now have I gotten him to take his money out as dividends rather than re-invest. (He's 80 .. if he cant' sell the business no reason to not bleed it dry). So this is his way of "selling the farm". They were always too scared to invest. Often were taken advantage of by some dirty person or another (usually someone they knew from church) who somehow would take their money and put it in some life insurance thingy or another and somehow "lost all or more of it"... so that's it .. too scared to invest. Rather own things they need and hope you can sell enough off at the end to live on...its reality for almost all rural people I know.

 

[youbet]

Their question was “How much money do you have saved in your savings account?”

I'd answer: $0

It's been a long time since I've had a "savings account"

Yeah. Savings vs savings acct is key. I don't have a kilobuck in a savings acct but am comfortably FIRED for over nine years now.

 

[ziggy29]

Yeah. Savings vs savings acct is key. I don't have a kilobuck in a savings acct but am comfortably FIRED for over nine years now.

That's the thing. There are a lot of things that can be "savings" (or equivalent) rather than a traditional savings account in a financial institution. They can also be some of these, perhaps among others:

* Money market mutual funds (in taxable accounts)
* Savings bonds mature enough to be redeemed without penalty or restrictions
* Asset management accounts (which are really checking on steroids)
* Arguably, some CDs with low early withdrawal penalties

We do have some money in savings accounts, but it represents only about half of what we "have in savings" overall. (Some of that is I-bonds with a 3.4% fixed rate; no way in Hell I redeem those before I have to in 2030.) That said, it makes you wonder about the question. It may be misleading as someone who has (say) $100K overall in the vehicles I list above but less than $1000 in traditional passbook savings may be included here. As could someone with no "savings" as usually defined but has (say) $2 million in liquid investments.

 

[purplesky]

IMHO Saving money isn't about evil corporations or immigration it is about LBYM and thinking long term. I call it brown bagging your life and the constant battle against SHINY RED PICKUP SYNDROME. Oh I've got it but the Mrs helped me see the light years ago. Now I'm sure you can probably write this list better then I.

1. Buy a new shiny red pickup or buy a three year old ugly green Toyota (I called her Betsy - god she was reliable)
2. Buy a budget stretching big house or a modest affordable cape cod (the upstairs was unfinished when we bought her)
3. Call the plumber, painter or lawn guy (god I love my used John Deere and the Mrs is an awesome painter) I love tools
4. Basic cable or the sports package I must admit no HBO but I am a geek for mountain men and the assorted Alaska shows..
5. Shop with coupons and look for sales (I never have the same cup of coffee week to week)
6. State College or private university. SUNY for me, State College for the daughter.
7. Ten thousand thermoses filled with cream of mushroom and a sandwich or eating out.
8. Some new toys with the bonus, tax return, inheritance, OT ....or some dividend stocks or ETFs.
9. Friday night pizza in or dinner and drinks out. (Did I ever tell you about the first time I spent more hen $20 on Chinese food.. The Mrs made a scene)
10 save first and spend the rest or spend and maybe save something
11 new heels or new shoes.. I actually met someone who didn't realize you can shine your shoes... "My husband will be happy because now I don't have to buy new ones..." Sweet Moses!
12. Not take advantage of a 401k match... Never leave money on the table...ever.
13. KEEP A BALANCE ON YOUR CREDIT CARDS .. oh brother don't get me started. The average person who carries a balance carries $15k - yikes that's what $ 3k in interest a year. Kill the debt and just save the interest for 30 years put it into ETFs and bam you'll have a big pile.

Obviously our list won't work for everyone - particularly if you have a very low salary. However I can't tell you how many people I've met that are clueless when it comes to spending/saving money. But for many people follow the above list and retirement will be as easy as not going to work.

Ps I still like cream of mushroom...


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LBYM is definitely the key to build wealth.

But it takes real income to do it. Unfortunately college degree millennials are not going to build real wealth as their low wages continue to remain flat or drop.

Or Just ask a unemployed 50 year old about the job market. Its a joke.

So savings rates for the AVG. American will remain low.

Its all about wages.

 

[ziggy29]

LBYM is definitely the key to build wealth.

But it takes real income to do it. Unfortunately college degree millennials are not going to build real wealth as their low wages continue to remain flat or drop.

Or Just ask a unemployed 50 year old about the job market. Its a joke.

So savings rates for the AVG. American will remain low.

Its all about wages.

Some fair points here. It's easy to have went to college 30-40 years ago, "make it" in the 1960s to 1990s economy and be an economic success today -- and criticize younger folks today for not being able to do the same. But many of the rules have changed. Some haven't, but a lot of them have. It's harder to LBYM when the last 10-20 years have really squeezed the "M" for many folks, even if they have worked hard and made the right choices.

I went to a state university from 1983-1988. When I started, the tuition was $295 per semester and when I graduated, it was still only about $700. As a result my part-time job in college was more than enough to pay for college and allowed me to not only graduate with no debt, but also with about $15K in the bank. Today's college grads can't get anywhere near that deal.

 

[M Paquette]

Some fair points here. It's easy to have went to college 30-40 years ago, "make it" in the 1960s to 1990s economy and be an economic success today -- and criticize younger folks today for not being able to do the same. But many of the rules have changed. Some haven't, but a lot of them have. It's harder to LBYM when the last 10-20 years have really squeezed the "M" for many folks, even if they have worked hard and made the right choices.

I went to a state university from 1983-1988. When I started, the tuition was $295 per semester and when I graduated, it was still only about $700. As a result my part-time job in college was more than enough to pay for college and allowed me to not only graduate with no debt, but also with about $15K in the bank. Today's college grads can't get anywhere near that deal.

Yup. I was in college in the early-mid 1970s. Tuition, books and lab fees came to around $700 a year at the local state college. I could pay for that pretty easily from part time work while enrolled at a 'full load', including working as a photographer and for a little extra cash, an early morning part time gig as a 'building maintenance technician' 2-3 hours a day (change light bulbs, air filters, wash and touch up walls, plunge toilets, etc).

The current annual cost at the same school is about $10,000 a year. To cover that plus food and housing would require a full time job at or a bit above minimum wage. It's pretty hard to carry a 'full load', particularly in the sciences or engineering, AND hold a full time job. There just aren't enough hours in a week.

The situation has changed. Our geezer experiences and solutions do not map well onto the current situation.

 

[ERD50]

Some fair points here. It's easy to have went to college 30-40 years ago, "make it" in the 1960s to 1990s economy and be an economic success today ...

Was it 'easy'? Many people didn't do so well. There was rampant inflation in the 80's, Japan was going to take over the world, etc.

It may have been 'easier' than today, hard to compare, different times, etc.

-- and criticize younger folks today for not being able to do the same.

I'm not sure anyone is 'criticizing' younger folks today for not being able to do the same. My point was that many seem to be doing just fine. As you say...

But many of the rules have changed. Some haven't, but a lot of them have.

Tuition has definitely increased faster than inflation. That does make it tougher for a lot of people, no doubt. But many (not all of course) are getting tuition covered to some extent by parents and/or grandparents, so those previous good times are benefiting some of them.

It's too far off topic, but one has to wonder just how it came to be that College tuition has outpaced inflation so much?

-ERD50

 

[hnzw_rui]

Maybe it's just me but I'm seeing a lot of what used to be "in-demand" degree jobs being moved offshore - IT, programming, engineering, accounting, etc. Basically the "brain" jobs. It's going to be hard for new grads to compete with folks living overseas with 1/4th or lower cost of living compared to the US.

Nursing used to be pretty in demand but one of my relatives (head nurse) say that nowadays, for every opening they have, there are usually 50-100 applicants. Thankfully, doctors with specializations seem to still be pretty in demand.

If I had just graduated from high school now, I'll probably go for medicine or electrical engineering (power distribution systems). That or skilled labor - electrician, plumbing, etc. Basically stuff that's difficult to offshore.

 

[Walt34]

Nursing used to be pretty in demand but one of my relatives (head nurse) say that nowadays, for every opening they have, there are usually 50-100 applicants. Thankfully, doctors with specializations seem to still be pretty in demand.

Perhaps that's dependent on the area? I see lots of ads for nurses but I'd also think WV isn't the most popular area for a recent college grad. That might be why.

When I was in the hospital last year I asked a couple of nurses about that and they said the barrier for a new nursing grad was getting specific certifications that can cost the hospital $60-$70k so they only hire experienced nurses unless they have no choice.

 

[ziggy29]

Perhaps that's dependent on the area? I see lots of ads for nurses but I'd also think WV isn't the most popular area for a recent college grad. That might be why.

Could be. Maybe it's more of a problem in rural areas, but around here the hospitals are *always* hiring nurses. Of course, maybe not all of them are hiring nurses without sufficient experience.

 

[dallas27]

Obviously I am talking about millennials in America. Not 10 year olds making soccer balls or a Chinese factory worker making an iPhone or a teenager making nike shoes.



Income inequality in America is now a real problem. Its Not about cable or buying a cell phone. That argument is dead and no longer relevant.



Good for you! You know some millennials that are making bank. Unfortunately more college grad millennials are not even making a living wage and they live in mom and dad's basement between their shifts at Starbucks and Target.



So its ok for corporate America and wealthy individuals to have an "entitlement attitude" when it comes to offshore tax-havens, but God forbid an American worker expects a living wage from corporations that make billions in profits and have trillions offshore evading taxes. See, it goes both ways with the "entitlement attitude".

There has never been a strong causation effect behind a degree and earnings. Earnings are tied to basic intelligence and work ethic. It's a subtle deceit that "college graduates" earn more.


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[Mulligan]

I am in my early 50s been retired for over 5 years and have saved more money since retirement than I did all of my working year combined.....Strip me of my pension and I am not nearly as smart as I think I was....Yes the pension bailed me out... If I could do it all over again I would have been smarter with my money. And fortunately for me, as long as my pension is good my mistakes wont matter.


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[unclemick]

Their question was “How much money do you have saved in your savings account?”

I'd answer: $0

It's been a long time since I've had a "savings account"

heh heh heh -

 

[Mulligan]

heh heh heh -

I must confess... I have a true "passbook savings account" unlinked to my checking account. $5,000 dollars plus, touched over the past decade or so. Its like my "break in case of emergency" money. I don't really pay any attention to it but its there if I need it. Or at least I assume its still there as I have not checked in quite a while.


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[NW-Bound]

I still have about 9% of investable assets in I-bond accounts. Those are my savings.

The interest they pay is so puny, I may have to draw it all out, take a tax hit, and do the SPY+option call strategy to get 4 to 5% a year. I can't stand this low interest anymore!

 

[ziggy29]

Was it 'easy'? Many people didn't do so well. There was rampant inflation in the 80's, Japan was going to take over the world, etc.

I didn't say it was "easy" to get through it then, just that it's easy to say that if "we" (being 20, 30 or more years older) were able to do it, there's no reason other than laziness or "bad decisions" why today's young adults can't do it just as easily.

 

[Al in Ohio]

There has never been a strong causation effect behind a degree and earnings. Earnings are tied to basic intelligence and work ethic. It's a subtle deceit that "college graduates" earn more.


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In specific instances some non degreed earners do comparably well, but on average a college degree has proven to earn signifigantly more lifetime earnings. It's not subtle. Labor statistics have been recorded for decades to prove it and these statistics are quoted often in articles and buisness journals. You should read more. (Less tv will help)

Edit. On average it is over 70% more lifetime earnings.

https://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf




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