Mother in law out of money for co-pays

[kumquat]

This discussion is drifting into the topic that had great discussion in this thread:
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f38/why-doctors-die-differently-60257.html

The articles in the first and second post are great discussions on the extremely tough topic of quality of life vs quantity of life when dealing with terminal or very likely terminal illnesses.

I don't think I ever read this thread. It does ring a very loud bell. One of our best friends died of cancer a couple of years ago. She was a doctor (GP). After diagnosis, she did the usuall things: surgery, radiation and then chemo (or chemo then radiation). Then one night we were invited to their house, they also invited another 4 friends. We had a nice supper and then she told us "nothing is working, treatments have stopped, nature will take its course". She lasted 2 months at home and 3 in palliative care (yes, that was free up here).

After the funeral, her sister, an oncolologist, told me that she (the sister) could have and might have had to give her a couple of extra months of agony. She told me a morbid (but with underlying truth) joke.

Why do coffins have nails?
To stop the oncologists from doing more chemo.

 

[frayne]

Why do coffins have nails?
To stop the oncologists from doing more chemo.

Sad but no doubt true.

 

[pb4uski]

There is no such thing as a loan to family....

Not sure I agree. I have loaned money to DD a couple times over the past few years where she didn't want to liquidate some investments. She paid me back and things worked out fine.

 

[travelover]

Not sure I agree. I have loaned money to DD a couple times over the past few years where she didn't want to liquidate some investments. She paid me back and things worked out fine.

Time for a DNA test. Sounds suspicious.

 

[pb4uski]

Time for a DNA test. Sounds suspicious.

 

[nun]

Boy, am I glad I live in Europe. A relative in a similar situation would get >90% of the care that the American lady is getting here (I doubt if all the bells and whistles of the US system add more than a couple of weeks at the back end to the life of a cancer sufferer, compared to, say, France or Italy), and nobody would have to make these awful moral choices.

I'm glad my mum lives in Europe too. No worries about paying for health care with the NHS. It's not perfect, but it's so much better than the system and situation the OP's MIL is dealing with..

 

[Bikerdude]

I'm glad my mum lives in Europe too. No worries about paying for health care with the NHS. It's not perfect, but it's so much better than the system and situation the OP's MIL is dealing with..

I think the major difference between many European countries and the U.S. is that they take the money away from you before you can piss it away on other stuff.

Now we're finding out those countries cannot afford the co-pays either.

 

[H2ODude]

Not sure I agree. I have loaned money to DD a couple times over the past few years where she didn't want to liquidate some investments. She paid me back and things worked out fine.

I generally agree that loaning money to friends and family is to be avoided at all cost, and an assumption be made that it is not likely to be repaid. However, one of our investments was a loan to our very responsible then 32 year old son. I'm holding a mortgage. I asked what was the best interest rate he could get, and I looked at best long term bond I could get. We split the two. No closing costs. Started out at 5.0%; when rates slumped, I changed it to 4% since he could have legitimately gone out and refinanced at that (well, yes, and paid closing costs). So I just did it. At 4%, with the mortgage on his property representing about 60% of fair value, and him with a great career, it truly is one of our best investments in our portfolio. We joke about the Bank of _____ (our last name). So I wouldn't dismiss arms length, codified and secured loans. Its worked out great for him and us.

 

[Culture]

I generally agree that loaning money to friends and family is to be avoided at all cost, and an assumption be made that it is not likely to be repaid. However, one of our investments was a loan to our very responsible then 32 year old son. I'm holding a mortgage.

In all fairness, a secured mortgage is not the kind of "friends and family" loan that most people are talking about. On the other hand, would you foreclose on your son ?

 

[NW-Bound]

Count me as one who would be very reluctant to provide financial help to relatives who are financially irresponsible.

But, but, but this is for medical reasons! Even if the OP's MIL smokes and has been causing her own financial situation, when it comes to the matter of life and death, the OP would not want this to become a problem in his marriage. For practical reasons, helping with that copay is not that expensive, considering what the tension with his wife might cause.

Regardless of whether the immediate treatment will bring about the desired result, if the MIL does not get this initial treatment, she would surely die and the OP marriage may not survive the tormenting question of "What if?" in his wife's mind.

 

[H2ODude]

In all fairness, a secured mortgage is not the kind of "friends and family" loan that most people are talking about. On the other hand, would you foreclose on your son ?

Heck yes! (although I can't imagine the circumstances). But I'd certainly agree that a secured mortgage is outside the realm of what most folks are talking about.

 

[sn2792]

My mom was diagnosed with small cell lung cancer, which was terminal, but I was able to get a medigap policy for her after the diagnosis, even though it was a pre-existing condition. Even though she was terminal, she opted for Chemo and radiation to prolong her time. It cost around $150.00 a month and it pretty much covered whatever Medicare didn't, except for the initial medicare deductible that had to be met. You might want to check into this.

 

[frayne]

Helping the helpless is one thing, helping the clueless is another and helping those who just don't give a rat's ass is all together different. Your call, follow your heart and common sense.

 

[rescueme]

Helping the helpless is one thing, helping the clueless is another and helping those who just don't give a rat's ass is all together different. Your call, follow your heart and common sense.

Well said...

 

[Speculator]

My two cents:

If I wasn't planning on retiring for ten more years, I'd "bite the bullet" and spend the 5k. So much can happen in ten years and to worry about how spending 5k will impact me ten years from now might be a lot of worrying about nothing.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[Purron]

I'm lucky to have mom I have. She's 81 and has been recently diagnosed with cancer. Surgery is this Monday. Her type of cancer (uterine) has a high cure rate so we're hopefull.

Mom is 81 and has excellent insurance plus money in the bank to pay for all things not covered. Her one request to me is to take her back and forth to the hospital and let them know I can care for her at home after surgery so her stay there will be as brief as possible.

She lives close by so this is not a burden. Not at all. Mom has been most generous to the entire family in every way. You can't pick your relatives but if you could, I'd choose her any day.

I feel very bad for many who are struggling with the issues described in this thread. I know it must be deeply painful in addition to the financial burden.

Peace.

 

[kumquat]

Not sure I agree. I have loaned money to DD a couple times over the past few years where she didn't want to liquidate some investments. She paid me back and things worked out fine.

Well, I said it often isn't repaid, not never. What I was getting at is that you have to be willing to call it a gift if it isn't repaid and you want a cordial relationship with that person.

 

[pb4uski]

Well, I said it often isn't repaid, not never. What I was getting at is that you have to be willing to call it a gift if it isn't repaid and you want a cordial relationship with that person.

I would agree with you on that.

 

[Cessna5354]

Helping the helpless is one thing, helping the clueless is another and helping those who just don't give a rat's ass is all together different. Your call, follow your heart and common sense.

This is what I call the difference in being Christian and being stupid.

 

[nun]

This is what I call the difference in being Christian and being stupid.

I'd call it the difference between being Christian and un-Christian.

 

[MichaelB]

I wouldn't call anyone anything. Everyone involved already has enough stress, they are dealing with terminal illness, and the consequences resulting from the choices they made are severe enough without my adding anything.

 

[W2R]

This may be a polictical topic. I have a mother in law that was diagnosed with cancer and needs copays in the 4-5 thousand dollar range to get treatment. My wife ofcourse wants to pay. My wife ofcourse has been a stay at home mother of 1 and has no income directly. My wife wants to use some of our emergency funds to pay for her mothers treatments. I feel that her mother a 2 pack a day smoker has lived here life the way she wanted and never really had any savings and spent every penny of her income throughout her life. These were the mother in laws choices and I am having a hard time coming to grips with spending this money when it was her living and spending choices that contributed to her situation. On top of it sh has never carried medicare gap insurance. 4-5 thousand now means could mean delaying retirement given that I am still 10 years away from that ER date.

I feel I go without thhings like cable tv, eating out, driving cars forever until the wheels drop off, meanwhile the mother in law has cable, eats out and drives relatively new cars. She had to stop work and is now 100% on SS for living expenses and has moved in with her sister due to being evicted for not paying rent due to having to stop work now.

My question to you folks is why should I be responsible for her lifestyle choices and forgo my goals because of it?

I am of course sorry for her diagnosis and don't want to come across in this posting as cold hearted, even though it may seem that way.

I haven't said anything so far in this thread, because I am finding it hard to relate to the original problem described above.

I guess I am luckier than I thought. Nobody in my family, old or young, would ever ask another family member for money to pay medical expenses unless they were sincerely and completely desperate for their lives. It would be a matter of personal pride not to ask. Of course I would pay a small amount like $5000 immediately and without question if asked, but that hasn't happened.

I guess we just have vastly different family cultures/behaviors.

 

[My Dream]

She's 81 and has been recently diagnosed with cancer. Surgery is this Monday. Her type of cancer (uterine) has a high cure rate so we're hopefull.

I've been thinking about your mom, I hope her surgery goes well.

 

[Midpack]

An aside to the OP, but at least I learned how lucky I am to have landed with DW. So far (32 yrs), we've never argued about a purchase large or small. Our money has always been our money, there is no mine and yours where money is concerned. Undoubtedly helps that we've both always been LBYM, so the question was never can we afford it. However, neither of us would make a major purchase without consulting the other, but there hasn't been one yet where either of us answered with anything but 'by all means, do it.' We ask each other out of respect for each other, and to make sure the other person doesn't have a better alternative. Guess I got lucky...

There's a poll topic, but I don't really care about the result, so I'll leave that to someone else...

 

[mickj]

An aside to the OP, but at least I learned how lucky I am to have landed with DW. So far (32 yrs), we've never argued about a purchase large or small. Our money has always been our money, there is no mine and yours where money is concerned. Undoubtedly helps that we've both always been LBYM, so the question was never can we afford it. However, neither of us would make a major purchase without consulting the other, but there hasn't been one yet where either of us answered with anything but 'by all means, do it.' We ask each other out of respect for each other, and to make sure the other person doesn't have a better alternative. Guess I got lucky...

There's a poll topic, but I don't really care about the result, so I'll leave that to someone else...

Yes, you did get lucky (or were smart at choosing your spouse)!