My Recent Calcium CT Scan

By the way, all this talk of the various drugs that folks take - or refuse to take - we had a whole thread on statins. I've probably said this before: If you don't trust your doctor to prescribe meds for you - you should probably find a doctor you DO trust to prescribe for you. I agree we should all do our own research on such things, but why pay for advice you're not going to take. You could save a lot of money by skipping the doctor if you don't want to follow her/his advice. Just my thinking on the subject but YMMV.

Medicine is a practice and not an exact science. The only person that lives with the results is the patient. Everyone’s bodies are different as are their reactions to medication. Studies that disprove older research can take decades to be published and for doctors to change their conclusions.

Many of us have seen older friends and relatives harmed from widely accepted treatments. I have seen people blindly trusting doctors and never questioning their treatment. Some of us take a more proactive approach that involves taking personal responsibility for the outcomes whether they are positive or negative.
 
By the way, all this talk of the various drugs that folks take - or refuse to take - we had a whole thread on statins. I've probably said this before: If you don't trust your doctor to prescribe meds for you - you should probably find a doctor you DO trust to prescribe for you. I agree we should all do our own research on such things, but why pay for advice you're not going to take. You could save a lot of money by skipping the doctor if you don't want to follow her/his advice. Just my thinking on the subject but YMMV.
People have this perception that prescriptions are bad, but supplements are good because they are “natural”. There really is no difference other than a prescription has been tested for efficacy and you can be confident you are getting what you are paying for but supplements are pretty much completely unregulated and no guarantees that the dosage is right or if you are even getting what you are buying.
 
My cardiologist pops a statin daily. Says most of his colleagues do, too - including those like him who have no indication of cardiovascular disease (his choice, I'm not advocating for every healthy person to take statins). He says he knows it's a lifesaver.
Flattens/shrinks plaque - smooths out caps so hopefully one won't break off & kill or disable you. There's so much scientific evidence showing statins to be lifesaving and if your doc says one is indicated then for gosh sake take one. Cardiovascular events - heart attacks and strokes aren't prospects to play around with.
 
My cardiologist pops a statin daily. Says most of his colleagues do, too - including those like him who have no indication of cardiovascular disease (his choice, I'm not advocating for every healthy person to take statins). He says he knows it's a lifesaver.
Flattens/shrinks plaque - smooths out caps so hopefully one won't break off & kill or disable you. There's so much scientific evidence showing statins to be lifesaving and if your doc says one is indicated then for gosh sake take one. Cardiovascular events - heart attacks and strokes aren't prospects to play around with.

Cognitive decline is not something to take lightly either.
 
No other reason to take the test other than DW and I had heard that it had some predictive value for heart disease. I have absolutely no symptoms. I am considering telling my doctor that I would like to wait before taking the statin, to possibly get my cholesterol down through dietary changes first.

It seems reasonable. On symptoms the first symptom of coronary artery disease is often a heart attack.

You took the scan to identify CAD risk. You found some.

So my suggestion is: be smart. I feel my Dr was not very concerned about my borderline cholesterol reading because he saw a fit healthy active person. Being fit healthy and active does not insulate you from heart attack risk, however.

Full disclosure: heart attack at 47 playing basketball, heart "event" at 59. 2 stents in the widowmaker.

Fully recovered I'm told.
 
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Cognitive decline is not something to take lightly either.
While this appears to happen anecdotally in some cases, there isn’t solid evidence that this is a common thing, and to the extent it happens it appears to be reversible. On the flip side there is some weak evidence that statins actually reduce occurance of dementia and Alzheimer’s, but again this hasn’t been proven in randomized controlled trials.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...ls have,cognitive impairment in some patients.
 
If you want to know more than your cardiologist

The Clot Thickens: The Enduring Mystery of Heart Disease is a book written by Malcolm Kendrick and Dr. Kendrick that was first published on October 29, 2021. The book is described as a 150-year detective story that features unrecognized heroes who may eventually be recognized for their work on the causes of heart disease.


The Clot Thickens: The enduring mystery of heart disease -
Overview. This is a 150-year detective story with a cast of unrecognized heroes who may, finally, become known for their work on the true causes of heart disease
The book demonstrates that cholesterol, particularly LDL, are the wrong targets, and then leads the reader through the evidence that supports the thrombotic
theory. It also discusses the application of the theory to various issues and treatment approaches.
Some recommend the book for people who have been diagnosed with CVD or diabetes, or who have had a stroke or heart attack
.
 
Be very careful with calcium supplements. If you take too much calcium at one time, it will calcify your arteries. If you don't take the right amount of K2 with it, it will calcify your arteries. I get my calcium through diet. There are lots of studies on this. Why doctors recommend calcium supplements is beyond me ?
 
Be very careful with calcium supplements. If you take too much calcium at one time, it will calcify your arteries. If you don't take the right amount of K2 with it, it will calcify your arteries. I get my calcium through diet. There are lots of studies on this. Why doctors recommend calcium supplements is beyond me ?
Interesting. Coincidentally looked at the nutrition label for a protein powder I have been using post-workouts for nearly 10 yrs (3-4x/week). I mix it with water, cinnamon, banana and spinach usually. It contains 1080 mg of calcium which is 80% of RDV. Not sure if that's contributing to my CAC but it can't be helping I imagine.
 
I ran across this article on the mechanism behind statins causing cognitive decline a couple years ago. I did a little more digging and didn't find a whole lot of new info on the subject so it may have turned out to be a dead end or maybe it's accepted and everyone has moved on to other studies.

https://news.arizona.edu/story/research-reveals-possible-reason-for-cholesterol-drug-side-effects

The good news is that mental fuzziness disappears after the person stops taking a statin. (Speaking from personal experience!)

When I was working with my gastroenterologist on my liver enzyme reaction to Rosuvastatin he said that all statins work pretty much the same way and if you have a bad reaction to one of them you'll likely have a bad reaction to all of them. While he was referring to problems with liver enzymes this may be true for mental fuzziness as well.

Since my liver enzyme problem had been solved and my mental fuzziness had disappeared (which I only detected by it's absence) I stopped looking into the topic any further. There may be more recent journal papers that have newer data on this subject.

One of the interesting things about the medical world is that the vast majority of medical papers I've read have had the same basic format.

1) We tested xxxx number of people with half being given a dose of magic stuff and half given a placebo.
2) The results are magic stuff works in yyyy number of cases and the placebo had the same effect on zzzz number of cases.
3) Therefore it's reasonable to conclude that magic stuff is/isn't a viable solution.

That's pretty much it. Engineering and scientific papers where the laws of physics are pretty well understood always frame the problem within these laws and show how it holds without exception in every case. This gives a solid foundation for further work to be done with reasonable certainty.

My guess is that this difference is due to the fact that the physical mechanism behind biological systems has yet to be comprehensively established in such a way that the phenomena being discussed can be accurately and irrefutably quantified in every case. The medical world is still in the empirical phase of understanding. How long will it take for them to REALLY understand biological systems so every cause and every outcome can be accurately identified? Probably quite a while. A century or two?

I've never heard of a blood test or some other quick and inexpensive method for assessing the presence of "beads on a string". Seems like this would be a useful test for those people who would like to keep all their wits about them.
 
Medicine is a practice and not an exact science. The only person that lives with the results is the patient. Everyone’s bodies are different as are their reactions to medication. Studies that disprove older research can take decades to be published and for doctors to change their conclusions.

Many of us have seen older friends and relatives harmed from widely accepted treatments. I have seen people blindly trusting doctors and never questioning their treatment. Some of us take a more proactive approach that involves taking personal responsibility for the outcomes whether they are positive or negative.


No disagreement here. I'm just saying that you need to be on the same page as the doctor you choose. If you have a doc pushing pills on you that you do not think you should be taking, find a doctor who has other options for you. It's a real hassle sometimes to find such a doc, but you need to w*rk together - not be at loggerheads.
 
No disagreement here. I'm just saying that you need to be on the same page as the doctor you choose. If you have a doc pushing pills on you that you do not think you should be taking, find a doctor who has other options for you. It's a real hassle sometimes to find such a doc, but you need to w*rk together - not be at loggerheads.

I have had the same wonderful female doctor for 27 years. She’s 10 years younger than me and I dread when she retires. We don’t always agree but respect each other’s opinions. At one point she wanted me to take statins and I told her I would never take them. I doubt that I will 100% agree with any doctor.
 
As an update to this thread, I've taken a number of actions as a result of my Coronary Artery Calcium (CAC) test and score of 164 last March:

1) Re-checked my lipids and glucose levels, using requestatest.com
- TC 174
- Triglycerides 45
- HDL 79
- LDL 86
- VLDL 9
- Glucose 102
- A1C 5.6
- EAG 114

2) Increased my education and awareness reading three books and and many YT videos
- The Big Fat Surprise, Nina Teicholz
- Metabolical, Robert Lustig
- The Cholesterol Myth, Bowden/Sinatra
Very interesting and informative. Made me smarter but at the same time irate at the food and drug industries for the current state of American health.

3) Based on the above, began a low-carb high-fat diet mainly because of my glucose numbers and the new wisdom surrounding carbs/sugar and heart/liver health. Lost about 10 pounds that I really didn't need to lose but I feel better.

4) Cut back on alcohol. Prior to the CAC test my consumption had risen to 2-3 drinks/day and I realized it really wasn't social; I felt the need around 5:00 whether DW and I were home alone or out with friends. Down to about 2-3 drinks per week and only when out with friends.

5) During this time I was not taking the recommended statin. A few days ago I saw a cardiologist, mainly for another opinion. He performed an EKG (results normal) and we set up appointments for an echocardiogram, carotid artery ultrasound, and a treadmill nuclear stress test. He also emphasized the need to be taking a statin not because of the lipid numbers but because of the CAC score. He likes to strive for an LDL of 55 in patients that have calcium buildup; otherwise he said I wouldn't need a statin. So I began taking the statin, starting low at 5mg. He also recommended reducing red meat, eggs and cheese so I'm still deciding what to do about my diet. I certainly don't want to increase carbs nor become vegan, so I'll look for some middle ground - more salmon/seafood, nuts, etc.

Still not sure how I got here. However in this process I learned that I have a not-so-good family history on my mom's side. Also, when I was younger and more stupid I smoked (less than a pack/day) in my 20s and 30s. I'm sure it all adds up.
 
Thanks for sharing, I am still in hesitation mode with my 206 CCTR, but understand from comments like yours that I need to pay attention.
 
Thanks for sharing, I am still in hesitation mode with my 206 CCTR, but understand from comments like yours that I need to pay attention.
In 2016 my calcium score was 1,036. I was put on 40mg of Atorvastatin. The intent is to stabilize the plaque in your blood vessels. Calcium buildup is an indicator of soft plaque being more likely. If a piece of that soft plaque breaks off it can cause a blockage when it is caught in another partially blocked area. The statins stabilize plaque reducing the chance of this happening. My 1,036 score put me at 95% chance of a cardiac event within five years. I made it to eight. Last Friday I had chest pains and had two stents put in. But NO heart damage! I’m now on 80mg of Atorvastatin and Plavix plus 81mg aspirin.
I had a stress test last November and get them every three years. I’ve also had several echocardiograms and regular EKGs. My blood tests have never shown a problem, even when I was in the emergency room before my stents were put in. Don’t feet too comfortable if your calcium score is over five and have great test results.
Any sign of chest pain, go to the ER to get it checked. Take a statin if your cardiologist tells you to. Ignore the anti statin clickbait articles because it’s not about cholesterol, but stability in your blood vessels.
 
If you want to know more than your cardiologist

The Clot Thickens: The Enduring Mystery of Heart Disease is a book written by Malcolm Kendrick and Dr. Kendrick that was first published on October 29, 2021. The book is described as a 150-year detective story that features unrecognized heroes who may eventually be recognized for their work on the causes of heart disease.


The Clot Thickens: The enduring mystery of heart disease -
Overview. This is a 150-year detective story with a cast of unrecognized heroes who may, finally, become known for their work on the true causes of heart disease
The book demonstrates that cholesterol, particularly LDL, are the wrong targets, and then leads the reader through the evidence that supports the thrombotic
theory. It also discusses the application of the theory to various issues and treatment approaches.
Some recommend the book for people who have been diagnosed with CVD or diabetes, or who have had a stroke or heart attack
.
Anyone can write a book but it does not mean that the contents are accurate. Everyone can have an opinion. For me, I trust my doctors and believe in main stream medical practice.
 
Your HDL to LDL ratio and TG to HDL ratio are very good.

Dr. Brewer says 5mg of Creator helps to reduce plaque but with your ratios I don't think he would recommend it to lower LDL.
If that's what Dr. Brewer recommends he's wrong. Statins also stabilize existing plaque, especially the soft plaque that doesn’t show up yet on a CAC. The statin is cheap insurance. If it causes side effects, dose or type can be adjusted.

I'm just a humble general internist who has never examined you though, so discuss this with your own doctor.
 
As an update to this thread, I've taken a number of actions as a result of my Coronary Artery Calcium (CAC) test and score of 164 last March:

1) Re-checked my lipids and glucose levels, using requestatest.com
- TC 174
- Triglycerides 45
- HDL 79
- LDL 86
- VLDL 9
- Glucose 102
- A1C 5.6
- EAG 114

2) Increased my education and awareness reading three books and and many YT videos
- The Big Fat Surprise, Nina Teicholz
- Metabolical, Robert Lustig
- The Cholesterol Myth, Bowden/Sinatra
Very interesting and informative. Made me smarter but at the same time irate at the food and drug industries for the current state of American health.

3) Based on the above, began a low-carb high-fat diet mainly because of my glucose numbers and the new wisdom surrounding carbs/sugar and heart/liver health. Lost about 10 pounds that I really didn't need to lose but I feel better.

4) Cut back on alcohol. Prior to the CAC test my consumption had risen to 2-3 drinks/day and I realized it really wasn't social; I felt the need around 5:00 whether DW and I were home alone or out with friends. Down to about 2-3 drinks per week and only when out with friends.

5) During this time I was not taking the recommended statin. A few days ago I saw a cardiologist, mainly for another opinion. He performed an EKG (results normal) and we set up appointments for an echocardiogram, carotid artery ultrasound, and a treadmill nuclear stress test. He also emphasized the need to be taking a statin not because of the lipid numbers but because of the CAC score. He likes to strive for an LDL of 55 in patients that have calcium buildup; otherwise he said I wouldn't need a statin. So I began taking the statin, starting low at 5mg. He also recommended reducing red meat, eggs and cheese so I'm still deciding what to do about my diet. I certainly don't want to increase carbs nor become vegan, so I'll look for some middle ground - more salmon/seafood, nuts, etc.

Still not sure how I got here. However in this process I learned that I have a not-so-good family history on my mom's side. Also, when I was younger and more stupid I smoked (less than a pack/day) in my 20s and 30s. I'm sure it all adds up.

I have a calcium score of over 600 and my LDL goal is under 50. Taking a low dose statin is the way to go. If it doesn't get you there and you just need a little more to get under 50, adding ezetemibe works better than doubling the statin. 20 mg of rosuvastatin got my LDL to 59. Doubling it to 40 got me under 50. But, I didn't love taking the max dosage. So my cardiologist decided to try 20 mg rosuvastatin and to add 10 mg ezetemibe. 4 weeks later my LDL was 27. So I am a big fan of the combo.

The doctor recommends limiting red meat and cheese because of saturated fat. Other high saturated fat foods include food with tropical oils and other full fat dairy sources. The good news is that reducing those foods does not mean you have to be a vegan or, even that you have to place with carbs. In fact, the optimal approach is to replace saturated fats with unsaturated fats (MUFAs and PUFAs). So, chicken breast, fish, olive oil, avocado oil, avocados, nuts. You do not have to eat a low fat diet. You need to eat a low saturated fat diet. All of that said my doctor basically wants me to reach my LDL goal which I am now at the very low end of. That is my LDL could be 20 points higher and I would still be at my goal. I am not a vegan. I eat a lot of fat but I don't eat much saturated fat.

The egg issue is about the yolks. The yolks have some saturated fat but the problem is the dietary cholesterol in them. For most people, eating eggs raises LDL only a few points. But, about 20 to 25% of people hyper absorb dietary cholesterol and eggs really raise their LDL a lot. My cardiologist suggested that I could (if I wanted) test this by eating more eggs for awhile and seeing what happens to my LDL (a month is long enough) and then eat the same without eggs and compare them.

As far as increasing carbs, you don't want to replace saturated with refined carbs. That isn't good. However, carbs in the form of soluble fiber is good for helping reduce LDL.

[Note those books are not really supported by mainstream medical science and are outliers. There is abundant evidence that saturated fat raises LDL and LDL causes plaque and the rupture of soft plaque is what causes heart disease.]
 
If that's what Dr. Brewer recommends he's wrong. Statins also stabilize existing plaque, especially the soft plaque that doesn’t show up yet on a CAC. The statin is cheap insurance. If it causes side effects, dose or type can be adjusted.

I'm just a humble general internist who has never examined you though, so discuss this with your own doctor.
Sorry. Maybe I misrepresented.
What I meant to say is that while Dr. Brewer acknowledges that 5mg Creator can be beneficial due to the plaque stabilizing properties, in most cases he does not feel that higher doses intended to hammer the LDL number are appropriate. He feels that addressing insulin resistance and inflammation is more important than reducing LDL.

As you point out. Each case is unique and an in person doctor has a better view of the individual.
 
I have a calcium score of over 600 and my LDL goal is under 50. Taking a low dose statin is the way to go. If it doesn't get you there and you just need a little more to get under 50, adding ezetemibe works better than doubling the statin. 20 mg of rosuvastatin got my LDL to 59. Doubling it to 40 got me under 50. But, I didn't love taking the max dosage. So my cardiologist decided to try 20 mg rosuvastatin and to add 10 mg ezetemibe. 4 weeks later my LDL was 27. So I am a big fan of the combo.
Thanks for the info on the ezetemibe; I'll look into that.
In fact, the optimal approach is to replace saturated fats with unsaturated fats (MUFAs and PUFAs). So, chicken breast, fish, olive oil, avocado oil, avocados, nuts. You do not have to eat a low fat diet. You need to eat a low saturated fat diet.
That sounds better, from a diet perspective. I have however read lots about the dangers of PUFAs/seed oils such as oxidation at high heat, so I may continue to stay away from them.
[Note those books are not really supported by mainstream medical science and are outliers. There is abundant evidence that saturated fat raises LDL and LDL causes plaque and the rupture of soft plaque is what causes heart disease.]
Thanks. I'm aware they're not supported, but it seems there's evidence on both sides. And when you follow the money...
It just makes one wonder what to believe.
 
Thanks. I'm aware they're not supported, but it seems there's evidence on both sides. And when you follow the money...
It just makes one wonder what to believe.
There is no money with statins, as many of these anti-statin movement tout that it is about money. My statin refill is $0 and the insurance paid like $.24 for 90 days supply. They are pretty much all generic.
 
I saw a study that said that 10mg rosuvastatin plus 10mg ezetimibe had the same effect on LDL as 20mg rosuvastatin.
 
Anyone taking vitamin K2/MK7 or eating natto or sauerkraut for athero?
 
I have been on a statin since Lipitor was first approved in 1996 (at age 34 - my cholesterol is hereditary and runs in the low 300s without medication). I had a calcium score a couple of months ago and it came back at 165. Lots of extra tests (stress test, echocardiogram, aorta echo) and all was good. Minor plaque.

Statins have probably saved me from a heart attack. My dad died from his 5th heart attack at age 53. I didn't want to be him.
 
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