Neighbor talked me out of BTD

[2HOTinPHX]

Doesn’t matter what anyone else says - this is the decision each of us have to make for ourselves many times before and during retirement. DW had her mid-life crisis car at 45 yo. I resisted until last week at age 68. YOLO

Congrats...enjoy the car. Here's hoping you make it to 136.

 

[Ronstar]

I agree with others here. Don't get the Camaro. Get a corvette.

 

[youbet]

The advice goes that you should buy experiences, not things. I do some of both, but spend much less on the things.

While I understand the point of that advise, I find it's hardly as straight forward as it sounds. There's lots of overlap between "experiences" and "things." I like to camp and fish. Great experiences! But I own a ton-o-stuff to enable me to have those experiences. I was just sitting here thinking about the F-150 I bought 23 years ago and still use to pull the camper and to haul the fishing gear. Yeah, it's a "thing" but it's an enabler of the camping and fishing experiences.

Perhaps a topic for a thread sometime......... ?

 

[Music Lover]

The advice goes that you should buy experiences, not things. I do some of both, but spend much less on the things.

Sometimes you need things to have experiences. I can't make music with my friends unless I have the required equipment. And if I'm going to make music then I want nice stuff that makes the experience more enjoyable.

You can't go fishing without a fishing rod and a boat. Etc...

 

[JoeWras]

Can't have a decent hike without good poles and a day pack.

 

[Andre1969]

Sometimes you need things to have experiences. I can't make music with my friends unless I have the required equipment. And if I'm going to make music then I want nice stuff that makes the experience more enjoyable.

You can't go fishing without a fishing rod and a boat. Etc...

That's how I feel; plus there's definitely some overlap. As for the OP and the Camaro, my sentiment is that it's only a "thing" if you buy it, let it sit, and then forget about it. But, if you drive it, enjoy having it, etc, doesn't that count as an experience?

 

[JoeWras]

That's how I feel; plus there's definitely some overlap. As for the OP and the Camaro, my sentiment is that it's only a "thing" if you buy it, let it sit, and then forget about it. But, if you drive it, enjoy having it, etc, doesn't that count as an experience?

Heck yeah.

I think it comes down to people buying stuff for the thrill of buying, and then not caring after. But... But... for some people, that is their experience.

 

[DallasGuy]

What is BTD?

 

[REWahoo]

Blow That Dough

 

[Chuckanut]

So, say the 60K you don't spend today is worth 120K when you retire in 2031. Is 120K really going to make a difference if you retire in 2031 or not? If it is, you might be cutting it a little too close. For many that RE'd , 60K is merely a daily market fluctuation.

Also, you might want to rent one for a weekend before you buy. Visibility is really poor in those.

What’s the ongoing expense of owning a Camaro vs a used Four door like a Camry? My guess is that insurance, tabs, and repairs are higher for the Camaro. The cost over the life of the car could be substantially more if my guess is right.

I used to own a 2012 Camry Hybrid that came with a ‘free’ round trip ticket to Europe every year. That was compared to replacing it with a new fancier car.

 

[Markola]

To each their own but when it comes to cars I’m looking for the Venn Diagram overlap of what I really want + what will last a very long time with minimal visits to the shop + what is 2-3 years old with low miles to bring a tricked-out model within my financial reach. Then I pay cash.

Since college in the 1980s, I wanted a SAAB. In 2008 I finally bought a loaded 2006 9.3 with 20,000 miles for $18,000, which is still going strong at 100,000 miles. It’s a stick shift with plenty of speed and European handling and I still enjoy driving it. $18,000 amortizes to close to $1,000/year at this point and it still has some trade in value. Same with my wife’s awesome 2016 Acura MDX, which we bought in 2018 for $38,000 and which I hope lasts at least another 10-15 years.

 

[Music Lover]

What’s the ongoing expense of owning a Camaro vs a used Four door like a Camry? My guess is that insurance, tabs, and repairs are higher for the Camaro. The cost over the life of the car could be substantially more if my guess is right.

I used to own a 2012 Camry Hybrid that came with a ‘free’ round trip ticket to Europe every year. That was compared to replacing it with a new fancier car.

You can also downsize your house to pay for that round trip ticket. Or get the car instead because you don't really care about a trip to Europe.

 

[aaronc879]

Your choice what to do with your money but to me BTD is for people who are already FIRED and have more money than they know what to do with. There are a lot of people on this forum who retired in the 2010's and had a great bull market run for the first decade or so of their retirement. Many of them were already conservative with a 90%+ chance of money lasting to 90+ years old. Those are the people who should be BTD. If you want to stop working ASAP then don't buy the car. If you don't mind your job and you think the car would bring you a lot of joy then it's ok to buy it. Only you can make that call.

 

[Telly]

Your choice what to do with your money but to me BTD is for people who are already FIRED and have more money than they know what to do with. There are a lot of people on this forum who retired in the 2010's and had a great bull market run for the first decade or so of their retirement. Many of them were already conservative with a 90%+ chance of money lasting to 90+ years old. Those are the people who should be BTD. If you want to stop working ASAP then don't buy the car. If you don't mind your job and you think the car would bring you a lot of joy then it's ok to buy it. Only you can make that call.

Well put!

In my Early-ER experiment, I would have viewed spending $60,000 as losing the possibility of having $2,400 ($60k x .04) adjusted upwards every year for inflation, for life! After many years have gone by, not worrying now about 4%. But not spending $$ helped get me here, so no regrets.

 

[COcheesehead]

What is BTD?

Buy that dream

 

[jazz4cash]

I looked at a new one on the dealer lot. It was upper 30’s with the 310hp V6. For 60k I’m sure you’re looking at one of the V8s. I’d consider the smaller motor and/or used.

 

[athena53]

If you want to stop working ASAP then don't buy the car. If you don't mind your job and you think the car would bring you a lot of joy then it's ok to buy it. Only you can make that call.

I agree- an example I used in the "Die with Zero" discussion was when I was contemplating sending DS to a military boarding school for HS- about $48,000 over 4 years and this was 1999-2003. He was falling through the cracks in the public school system even though I knew he was smart and a good human being. I was dating second DH at the time and was worried about what that outlay would do to my retirement savings. He said, "How would you feel if you had a comfortable retirement but DS never got a sense of direction and you wondered if you could have done more for him?"

That settled it and the school was a miracle. That money might have allowed me to retire earlier or have a bigger asset base now- but at the time it was the best thing I could have done with the money. I know the Camaro is a "want" but if you think the difference it will make in the quality of your life is worth working awhile longer, go for it.

 

[kgtest]

Over my lifetime I have had several Corvettes, Mustangs, MGBs, BMWs, etc, (convertibles). Buy a clean used one, drive it until you are tired of it (maybe years?), then sell it. The car won't be a compete loss if you keep it up.

Have fun, investing isn't everything it's made up to be.

Good advice. I don't need a brand new one. But I do appreciate the 'Have Fun' mantra. My sister passed away at 47. You can't pick your time. She did have a short but fun life she lived.

 

[Andre1969]

Buy that dream

Bondage, Torture, Discipline. Oops, wrong forum!

 

[kgtest]

I looked at a new one on the dealer lot. It was upper 30’s with the 310hp V6. For 60k I’m sure you’re looking at one of the V8s. I’d consider the smaller motor and/or used.

I've always "wanted" a V8 muscle car. Goes against the grain of my "practical" approach I've typically taken on vehicles. I am really into cars though. I just never really got to experience owning a muscle car. I've rented them and loved them.

 

[kgtest]

My 28 yr old son is living with us for the last two years. He has a good job and is saving over 65% of his income. He has recently brought home some flyers from apartments and checking on prices. He's looking at $1500 a month rent. I pointed out 2 years of rent will cost you $36,000 plus you will have a lot of additional expenses, could total $50,000. Using MMM's 10 year thought about saving now, that could grow to over $130,000 in 10 years. We'll see if he BTD or not. We enjoy having him around, plus, he's our free tech support!

Lol. I was sort of a failure to launch. I rented an apartment for 6 months, and then moved back home. I couldn't stand the thought of throwing all that money away when mom and dad had 4 empty bedrooms in the house. It made my bond with them much stronger, and we also had plenty of character building experiences. I moved in with a girlfriend for a few months, then when we broke up, I moved back home. Finally, I moved in with DW when I knew she was the "one". Her lease came up for renewal and my parents were strongly encouraging we look at buying instead of renting, so we bought a townhouse. It was a GREAT decision. I remember at the time I was kind of embarrassed for living with mom and dad at age 26, but it all worked out.

We had to move back in when transitioning back from Hawaii and trying to buy a house here back on the "mainland". That was a lot more difficult since we had already "launched" and were really trying to buy in what at the time seemed like a challenging seller's market. 110 home showing later, we finally found a house that "would do" and are still in that home, with 8yrs left on the mortgage. At 1.75% interest rate I don't think I would ever move with the rates the way they are today. I don't envy those who have to pay rent or lock in a high interest rate today.

 

[kgtest]

In 2015, I bought a C6 Corvette Z06 from the original owner at just over $30k. For the next five years, I thoroughly enjoyed blasting around the rural back roads of north central / western Maryland and south central Pennsylvania. It was an absolute hoot, and somehow I managed to get only one speeding ticket. In 2019, I sold it for just under $30k, so the ROI was pretty hard to beat. It was a very special (and woefully impractical) car that I never would have considered purchasing new ($80k sticker) so could not have owned otherwise. Zero regrets!

Admittedly, this argument has merit. A race car (effectively) is a handful on the street. I love rowing through gears, but my C6Z could exceed 60mph in first, limiting opportunity to do much more than short-shift. Track time is a different story, of course...

It was not a good car for c*mmuting yet I felt compelled to drive it as much as possible, and eventually I realized that more sitting was not what I needed while still w*rking so ultimately opted to trade road & track thrills for mountain biking and hiking with our newly adopted shepweiler pup. I FI/REd two years later, and DW is FI/REing next month (woot!), so this speed junkie / gear head will let things settle for a while before deciding what's next (the new Kia EV6 GT looks fun!)...

Good luck!

Ahh the fabled Z06! Nice looking car. I've always wanted a Vette as well, but after driving the Stingray convertible, and the Camaro Convertible, I realized I had JUST as much fun in the SS as I did in the Z. And the cost difference is significant and no back seat. Not that I am going to be cornering at 6,000 rpm with the kids in the back, but it would be nice to squeeze them in the back to go get some ice cream here and there.

 

[kgtest]

What’s the ongoing expense of owning a Camaro vs a used Four door like a Camry? My guess is that insurance, tabs, and repairs are higher for the Camaro. The cost over the life of the car could be substantially more if my guess is right.

I used to own a 2012 Camry Hybrid that came with a ‘free’ round trip ticket to Europe every year. That was compared to replacing it with a new fancier car.

Quite a bit of a maintenance cost difference. We own a Camry lol. That has always been our practical car. It's "not bad" to drive, its the SE so sure I can click the Sport button and watch the shift points change more aggressively, but its still a 4cyl Camry lol.

Insurance on a Camaro SS will run about $1,000/yr. Tires will ware out after 7,000 miles (unless I buy a set less aggressive and "sticky") then you have the rear diff fluid and higher registration costs/tags. I put on less than 10k miles a year as it is, since COVID forced me into the home office. I would likely take the Camaro out a lot more just for fun, vs just driving when I need to today, But I still won't put more than 15k on between my 2 vehicles. DW puts on 30k on the Camry annually driving around for work. It's our "beater/commuter" car.

 

[Z3Dreamer]

My story relating to overcoming lust for expensive cars.

In 1990, I drove an 11 yo Corolla and wore suits until they were paper thin. Oh, I also put away about 1/3 of my paycheck for retirement and had a nice house. There was a guy at work who made 3 times what I made, never wore the same suit twice, monogrammed shirts, first one to get a Lexus, pop down to the islands for a 4 day get away and a clothes horse trophy wife (his second trophy wife). He was putting away $50 a month. He also had a house that was valued at half mine.

One night while walking back to my car from a restaurant, I passed a Mercedes dealer. Went in and sat in a $100k two seater. Man it was great. I did the math and I could afford it. How everyone would think highly of me. How the office ladies would give me that second look as I passed. How the boss would respect me. Nah, kept my rusty Corolla. Eventually, I bought a $16k Accord that I kept for 14 years. My trophy wife shopped for clothes at discount stores.

Recently, I looked up the good-looking well dressed successful guy. He is still working. Must be about 70. I point this story out to my kids.

 

[athena53]

I did the math and I could afford it. How everyone would think highly of me. How the office ladies would give me that second look as I passed. How the boss would respect me.

I don't know about you, but I don't want second looks from those members of the opposite sex or respect from the kind of people who would place a higher value on me because I drive an expensive car.

My Ex lived a life that was flashy on the outside but he spent every dime he made and then maxed out his credit cards. He died broke. I have my splurges (travel and jewelry) but they're things I enjoy, not done to impress anyone.