Neighbor's Wood Smoke Unbearable; Appears There's No Legal Recourse; What to Do?

[ls99]

To the OP: Perhaps it is the woodstove heated house owner's comment and opinion on the 300 house development.

As others have said, if there is smoke infiltration into your house, it is now your problem. It is likely the result of the fine quality shortcuts in air sealing by the builder. Hire someone who can perform a blower door test, for establishing the airtightness of your house. Solutions not likely not be cheap.

 

[target2019]

This issue is basically one of we all share the world type problems.
Suppose some country only used solar power, so now it's air would be pure and clean.. until the air from any other country using cars and coal/gas/oil power plants blew into their country.
We all share the air.

Good observation. That would be the 100 mile view, where there are fewer legal protections. At ground level we have layers of government which vary among us, and in OP's case seem to be less helpful than desired.

The fire marshall was genuinely interested and told the owner about proper stove use. But there is no meat. Where he is an individual has more freedom to operate their stove and other things in a way that is un-regulated. In our town I would hope there'd be more remedy, but I can't say for sure.

We have a problem out back with the neighbor's smoker. It varies over time, and prevailing wind on any given day affects us. It is annoying, but we go inside and avoid smelling it. So I identify with OP, but know my problem is temporary and not severe.

I think about the comfort level at home quite a bit. When it gets too noisy or smoky I dream of another location. But a few thoughts in I realize it will be difficult to know about all the surprises that await us after a move.

 

[Walt34]

TOddly, the neighbor on the other side of me sold his house last month and the new family has been in their house a couple of weeks. And again oddly, the family directly across the street from us moved out over the summer and the new family moved in about a month ago.

I'm beginning to see a pattern here....

Seriously, it looks like either first trying the filtering options and failing that, then moving, will be your best options. You can try going the EPA route, but I wouldn't expect much from them. They deal with major polluters and one guy with a smokey stove is not on their agenda.

State law is on the side of the guy with the stove. If you want to sue in federal court check out the costs first. It's probably cheaper to move.

 

[NateW]

Since it's in the winter, most likely you won't have your windows open while they are burning. Have you tried a good air purifier in your home? When you are outside you could wear an N95 mask to filter out some of the smoke.


Where does that bolded part come from, is that your opinion? The law is clear and you've verified it with probably the best authority that could have have that they are within their rights. I think you need to get over your assertion about what you think you are entitled to, since it won't get you anywhere.

The only other suggestion I have is to research how various wood types burn, and ask them to burn something less smoky instead, and offer to pay the difference. I think green wood tends to burn more smoky than wood that has aged a season.

I suppose you could try a huge fan, something like what you might see on sidelines of a football game in hot weather. Put it on the side of your house closest to them, and try to blow it back away, or maybe to one side.

Beyond that, just face up to it that you have to move. You may think on principle that you shouldn't have to, but are you willing to continue to harm your health on principle? I'd be angry too, but you also have to deal with reality.

The bold text is what I paraphrased from nuisance cases arguing the matter I found and you are correct, it may not apply in Virginia. I may speak with an attorney about my rights.

We have also been listing the other things we do not like about the house. Biggest one is right on the other side of the 200 foot wide clump of woods is a major highway. Noiser than we anticipated. This time if and when we move we will pay movers to pack our stuff and will downsize a bit. I've thought about offering to pay for good split oak and have it delivered. I'm not sure I want to get involved and I fear the family may ask for other things. It's apparent they have little money. He gets the wood for free I think. A dumptruck is on the property.

Great idea about the N-95 mask, thanks. I have a box of them I got before the pandemic hit.

 

[W2R]

I guess you will be moving?

+1

Since there is no legal recourse, there is no way that you can force your neighbor to stop doing this. You can move, but if you do then you would be well advised to thoroughly observe and check the surroundings of any house you may be considering, before you buy it.

Another thing to consider is that many of us, myself included, are finding the urge to make other people do what we want is much stronger during times such as this pandemic, when so much of what goes on is NOT what we want. Maybe you will find it is not so bad later on, once the pandemic is over? Or not. But meanwhile, from what you are saying apparently there is absolutely nothing you can do except move.

 

[Sunset]

+1

Since there is no legal recourse, there is no way that you can force your neighbor to stop doing this. You can move, but if you do then you would be well advised to thoroughly observe and check the surroundings of any house you may be considering, before you buy it.

....

One thing that bugs me is noise.
When we looked for houses, my big thing was to go in the back yard, and sit down, close my eyes and listen for 10 minutes. Then do the same in the front yard.
All, from buying a house previously under a flight path of an airport 10 miles away

 

[Sunset]

OP - Another option might be to buy the neighbor's property. Then kick them out.

 

[Walt34]

I RE'd July 2019 and DW and I moved to the Winchester, VA area that fall and bought a house in fairly new 300 house development. Our house is on one of the outter-most streets. Behind our backyard there are about 200 feet of woods.

I can feel for you. We did nearly the exact same thing in 2001 when we contracted for the house we're in now, only about a half-hour north up I-81 from you, when we moved to WV. It was pure dumb luck that it didn't happen to us. While I tried to anticipate every possible negative to the location, a smokey stove was not one of them.

 

[Bob_Walter]

We heat using a wood stove for over 10 years. Are you sure about the 400 feet in distance? Maybe I can smell the smoke from our stove 200 feet away at most and our stove is at least 20 years old. In fact, our stove is going now, 3 feet from me, there is zero smell outside. Perhaps they burn unseasoned wood or garbage.

I'm not sure what to tell you, perhaps offer to buy them seasoned wood and new EPA cert stove. If they say no or they get angry, I guess you might think about moving.

Even if there was a legal way, the problem is getting the neighbor to comply. Usually the neighbor will want revenge and it starts a war.

 

[Amethyst]

Why would the seller have to disclose that the neighbor's wood smoke really bothers him? That is something I have never, ever seen on a disclosure form.

Now if I were a serious buyer, and I specified that I couldn't stand wood smoke, then it would be unethical for the real estate agent to say, "Oh, I'm not aware of any issues there." But sue-able? I'm not at all sure.

As for selling the house, you will have a disclosure issue. You now are fully aware of this issue and denying it will put you at risk financially when the sellers find out. If it comes to selling, try to find someone who smokes in their house. They’ll not likely care.

 

[Walt34]

As for selling the house, you will have a disclosure issue. You now are fully aware of this issue and denying it will put you at risk financially when the sellers find out. If it comes to selling, try to find someone who smokes in their house. They’ll not likely care.

Why would the seller have to disclose that the neighbor's wood smoke really bothers him? That is something I have never, ever seen on a disclosure form.

Now if I were a serious buyer, and I specified that I couldn't stand wood smoke, then it would be unethical for the real estate agent to say, "Oh, I'm not aware of any issues there." But sue-able? I'm not at all sure.

I'm sure it depends on state law, which we all know can vary widely and for really weird reasons. It can come down to the exact wording of what, exactly, has to be disclosed and why.

 

[NateW]

If you are smelling smoke inside your home with your windows closed, you may have a chimney downdraft problem. You should look into that.

Thanks for commenting. No chimney; have a condensing furnace with intake and exhaust pcv pipes out the side of the house. The gas water heater is a power vent model (also exhausts via a pcv pipe out the side of the house), but it does take air from inside the house, so what ever air is used for combustion must be replaced with outside air. It's a very tight house, we have the builder's air door data.

But I discovered today if I leave the windows unlocked (and 3 upstairs ones were were due to me opening them slightly sometimes to get fresh air) they are leaky when closed. I have also been running the furnace fan continously to control dust and I know sometimes this can increase air infiltration. Today I locked the windows and switched the fan to "auto" and infiltration seems to be less, but we had a reprieve today (a slight southwest breeze blew).

 

[38Chevy454]

Burning wet green wood makes a lot more smoke. Neighbor probably not using nice aged dried out wood.

Besides the filters in your home and evaluating air entry points, I think you may end up having to move if your sensitivity is too much for the conditions.

 

[Mark1]

Why would the seller have to disclose that the neighbor's wood smoke really bothers him? That is something I have never, ever seen on a disclosure form.

Now if I were a serious buyer, and I specified that I couldn't stand wood smoke, then it would be unethical for the real estate agent to say, "Oh, I'm not aware of any issues there." But sue-able? I'm not at all sure.

+1 On a quiet day, I can hear interstate I-70 which is maybe 3 miles away and I hate it. No, I don't plan to disclose it when I sell our house.

 

[Jerry1]

Why would the seller have to disclose that the neighbor's wood smoke really bothers him? That is something I have never, ever seen on a disclosure form.

Now if I were a serious buyer, and I specified that I couldn't stand wood smoke, then it would be unethical for the real estate agent to say, "Oh, I'm not aware of any issues there." But sue-able? I'm not at all sure.

Probably correct that it’s not a required disclosure but when the neighbors talk and the new owners find out that’s why Nate moved, they may try to sue. Or, the next owner calls the fire marshal and gets an earful from him. Either way, it presents a dilemma. The seller knows of an issue. That creates a potential problem when selling.

 

[NateW]

I’m sorry to say, but this problem is for you to solve on your property or look into relocating. That house was there first and is well within their right to do what they are doing unless there are laws to prevent it. It’s unfortunate, but it is what it is.

Thanks for commenting. DW and I are coming to realize this; she's already looking at houses online, but I don't think it's safe to move until the pandemic is under control and we are vaccinated. We also want to be extremely careful this time and thuroughly research places we are interested in, although I don't think we could have anticipated this problem. If it got real bad smoke wise perhaps we could rent a small place this winter.

 

[NateW]

I live in Colorado. We had lots of fires this year. The AQI numbers were off the chart. There would be ash on our car. It was thick. It smelled. You could feel it as you breathed. This was going to be happening for months on end.

I bought a purpleair monitor and installed it in the house. It was showing particulate counts of over 150 (over 50 is moderately bad, over 100 is bad, over 150 is very bad and so on).

So, we bought an at least MERV 13 air filter for our furnace and ran the furnace fan 24x7 when the smoke was bad outside. AQI numbers in the cabin - in the tens to low teens. Outside in the mid to upper 100's.

Basically, we turned our furnace blower into a whole house air purifier. We had to replace the filters every other week or so (they got very brown, very fast) - but we could breath freely.

We did the same thing at my father in laws house. He has COPD and was getting really affected by the smoke. It completely cleared up his house (normal size house - much larger than our cabin).

You might try that - just do keep an eye on the filter to see how often you might have to change it.

Thank you for commenting DenverGuy. You have received some of my anexiety. You had it much worse than I do and made it through. Excellent idea. I've got a 5 inch thick MERV 11 in there now, but that is not good enough. I'll compare the MERV 11 and 13 specs for pressure drop (I use an electronic manometer to determine furnace filter replacement intervals) and see if it is too great. I'm also going to look into installing a Honeywell electronic air cleaner in the filter frame (it's designed for both).

 

[NateW]

Offer to buy them a new stove and higher-quality wood, is all I can think of. If it's any comfort, I am on your side about your right to breathe clean air. But I'm not the law.

Oh, and if you decide to sell, think hard before engaging the nearby neighbors. You wouldn't want a prospective buyer going door-to-door only to hear, "Oh, yeah! Those are the people who have to sell because they get the wood smoke so bad at their house!"

Thanks Amethyst. Great point. The more DW and I discuss the matter, the more we want to move. The smoke problem appears to be the catalyst. Don't want to jeopardize the sale. If we do decide to move, I won't poll the neighbors about the smoke. There are several things about this house and location that are suboptimal. I think we moved a little too quickly after I ER'ed. The old house we lived in for 15 years in Northern Virginia had some issues and DW could not wait to get out and I could not wait to get out of Northern Virginia because I lived there over 50 years and had enough of all the traffic and congestion and ever since I was a teenager thought I'd like to live in the Shenandoah Valley after visiting a few places there. But now I'm not so sure. For one thing the air quality is generally bad because air stagnates in valleys (I knew this before we moved but discounted it's importance). This house is big (3600 sq ft.). I liked it because it easily holds all of our stuff. Well it's time to downsize and halve what we posess. I'm also finding out it's a lot of house to take care of and keep clean. It has open floor plan with a 14 foot vaulted ceiling in the "Great Room" which includes the living room and kitchen and it is an accoustic disaster and causes sounds to carry all over the house and they are extra loud. All I do is work on this house and tend to the yard and it's only 8 years old! It's 300 feet from a highway and major trucking route, with a stoplight a few hundred feet up from us. The big trucks use their engine brakes all throughout the day when stopping at the light. Engine brakes make a very loud and rapid popping noise when activated. Our bedroom is on the highway side and we hear the trucks inside.

 

[Bamaman]

Offer to buy them a new stove and higher-quality wood, is all I can think of. If it's any comfort, I am on your side about your right to breathe clean air. But I'm not the law.

Many places out west, building codes require that any wood burning stoves, fireplaces or heaters have catalytic converters in them. The pollutants are burned prior to going out of the chimney.

I agree about offering to buy such a stove for the family. It's cheaper than moving.

 

[Walt34]

It's 300 feet from a highway and major trucking route, with a stoplight a few hundred feet up from us. The big trucks use their engine brakes all throughout the day when stopping at the light. Engine brakes make a very loud and rapid popping noise when activated. Our bedroom is on the highway side and we hear the trucks inside.

Lemme guess, you're within sight of, or nearly so, to I-81, the second most used north-south trucking route in the East after I-95. "Jake brakes" are a royal pain to be around.

Most of Virginia is a beautiful state. But not near I-81.

 

[ivinsfan]

It's not a problem with the house itself so why is it disclosable. Maybe a new buyer won't notice it or care about or maybe the smelly neighbor will move. Just like road noise it's in the nose/ear of the occupant.

As to the smell, when we drive 2 hours East to see our DD in the wintertime, there are certain locations where I have to turn off the outside vents on our car. The smell of burning is horrible and it happens EVERY SINGLE TIME in the same locations. I often joke to my DH that they must all be nose blind because the smell is so stinky I don't know how anyone could live with it.

 

[6miths]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Wood smoke is a major health issue the world over. Around here wood burning stoves and fireplaces are forbidden in new builds. We moved into a 100+ year old farm house which used to stand alone but now has residential all around it. The house had 2 fireplaces and a woodstove and a third walled up fireplace. We replaced the woodstove with NG and put high-efficiency inserts into the two fireplaces. We use one of them a fair bit. Main heat is NG. Agree that with dried hard wood we can't really see any smoke coming out of the chimney but one can still catch the scent of smoke if it is a heavy, damp day. Of course, we don't usually have a fire on those days. We only have one close neighbor and they have never mentioned smoke as an issue and we are friendly neighbors.

If the fire marshall has been in I agree with others that there is not much else to do. Good dried hardwood can be relatively expensive. We burn about 6-8 face cords a season and significantly more when we had the woodstove and small children home all day. Not many options that haven't been mentioned. Any chance they have an option to heat with NG or propane? Seriously, sorry to hear of your difficulties.

 

[trumpeting_angel]

I recently moved from 10 acres in Vermont to an apartment in a city. For awhile my heating system was over-active (fixed now, thank goodness), and I kept the windows open to keep it under 75F. As soon as the weather got cold, I was besieged by smoke from all the neighboring buildings. These are old multi- and single-family houses, and at least one is burning wood.



I bought the air purifiers recommended on wirecutter.com, the Coway air filter. They work beautifully. Now the heating system is fixed and I can shut the windows, but I like knowing that the air I breathe is still being improved.

 

[Scrapr]

I'm also going to look into installing a Honeywell electronic air cleaner in the filter frame (it's designed for both).

Our home in Bend also got hit hard with forest fire smoke over several years. We installed an electronic air filter (might have been Honeywell) As Denverguy said we ran the furnace fan all the time. The filter was washable so didn't have to replace filters. We were very thankful as it worked great. I think we had smoke 3 or 4 years of the 5 or 6 years we had the filter. Several neighbors were complaining about the smoke. I always showed them our unit

 

[Buckeye]

We have a smaller version of the problem because of the next door neighbor burning green wood from the grocery store in their fireplace. Who needs a fireplace in FL, for heaven's sake?

Luckily, it's not an everyday thing but I have a very keen sense of smell and the smell of smoke bugs me big time. Their chimney seems to be very short and the smoke seems to roll right out of it and over to our house. It seems to get trapped in our screened pool enclosure. Sometimes I put on the patio fans trying to get rid of the smell because the stink rolls in when I open the door for the cat to go out (even though she could go into the kitchen and use her cat door!)

Sometimes the cat comes in just reeking of wood smoke. They are friends so we can get it worked out. I have mentioned the level of smoke but the adult daughter's response is always, "I love the smell!" Good, keep it in your yard!