Neighbor's Wood Smoke Unbearable; Appears There's No Legal Recourse; What to Do?

[Aerides]

You said you live near a major highway. That isn't a residential area.

I'm in dense suburban SE Fla. ~Half of the county is within 1 mile of a major highway. I-95 is about 1 mile as the crow flies. I don't hear too much from from it, except maybe an unmuffled motorcycle at night, or a fleet of sirens, in the distance.

Parents were looking at a place a good 1.5 miles west of the Turnpike, but with westerly winds, in a part of the county that's slightly less dense, you could clearly hear obvious traffic from the patio.

OP might be more sensitive (literally, sensory experiences) than others. I have weak sense of smell, but certain sounds will drive me nuts. Don't chew gum anywhere near me, I will have a fight or flight response. I know that's not "normal", but it's part of a mild underlying anxiety, thank you menopause.

OP maybe check that out (not menopause...) Maybe some anxiety coping therapy, meditation, etc., if not forever, at least for this year. No shame in that, and probably underdiagnosed this year of all years.

 

[gwraigty]

I could be way off the mark here, but OP has given enough clues so far that my guess is that the location of this young development is just down the road from Millbrook High School or at least nearby, per Google Maps. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

So much to unpack. First, I wish I'd had high speed internet and Google Maps when we built our current home in 1996. We weren't from this area and it would have been amazingly helpful. We might have bought or built in a location further from obvious permanent noise nuisances. That said, some nuisances crop up later as a young development expands and those can't always be anticipated.

Even if I'm wrong about the location, it's still a great example to use. Street view gives the name of the development just north of Rt. 7 as The Overlook at Red Bud Run by Dan Ryan Builders at the intersection of Megan and Woods Mill. It's literally right next to the high school. That's quite appealing for families with kids who would eventually go there. Newer developments like this one are a magnet for families with kids anyway. It takes about 20 years before most of the initial group of kids have grown enough to (hopefully) reduce the noise levels from that front. There will still be families with kids moving in on occasion, but it becomes just a sparse scattering around the neighborhood rather than the majority population. When I had young kids, it was appealing to be surrounded by families with the same. Now, I wouldn't want that.

I see only 2 houses there right now with built in swimming pools. If those neighbors have an open door policy with their pools, guess where most of the neighborhood noise is centered? Over time, there will be more pools installed in that development. Many people tend to copy what their neighbors do. One gets fence/shed/pool, it starts spreading.

If you live on a corner, it could eventually become an official school bus stop. Then you have to listen to the bus brakes squealing several times a day right next to your house, sometimes awakening you at 6:30 AM. Also, the closer you live to the entrance to the development, the more traffic you'll get passing by your house.

There's a lot of empty land to the north and east. It'll fill up eventually. People who are buying there with the thought it's going to stay the same are going to be disappointed. All of that rural is going to turn urban/suburban over the next 20+ years. Traffic is going to increase by a lot. More shopping areas will be built as the neighborhood becomes more populated. That wouldn't bother me as I prefer to be nearer to amenities.

I'm anticipating moving sometime within the next 5 years, not too far away. I don't expect to avoid all nuisances, but at least I'll be able to use Google Maps to pick and choose and try to minimize them. I recommend that OP do the same to scope out the neighborhoods while browsing listings.

What I wouldn't do is buy any wood for the neighbor. He might expect it all the time. Don't buy more house than you want to clean. Don't buy into a young development if you want peace and quiet. Look for one that's aged a bit. BTW, carpet is a pain to vacuum, but hard floors also tend to create an echo effect, though they're a pleasure to clean. Pros/cons, YMMV.

 

[Amethyst]

I'll bet the state would get on that right away.

That makes perfect sense. If we planned to stay I'd consider asking the state to put a sign up staying, "Residential area, truckers do not use engine brakes".

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

In Virginia if you are buying and will have an HOA, at closing you have to sign a statement attesting you read and will abide by the HOA rules and covenants.

I do all of our automotive repair and maintenance on our 2 cars. We almost did not buy this house because the Rules stated, "There shall be no automotive repair or maintenance on the property." Heck, this is a single family home with a 2 car garage. So I called the management compay and said I would not purchase the property unless I got it in writing that I can work on my cars in my garage with the garage door closed. I got it in an email.

Oh, our requirement for lawns is no more than 25% weeds and the grass must be between 2 and 6 inches in height.

I wanted to put up a 6 by 7 foot vinyl shed under my deck that is 9 feet off the ground. No one would ever see it because it was hidden by the back of the house and deck. Vinyl was not an excluded shed material, the houses are vinyl sided and vinyl fences are allowed. The management company senior staff reviewed my request, did not send it to the HOA board and flatly denied it stating vinyl is not an allowed shed material. Well it must be because people under this HOA have vinyl sheds. I do not like HOAs!

That won't hold any weight, you know that, right? I have other words...but...it's the holiday season.

Nate, it seems that you have a lot of sensitivities... smoke when your neighbors don't, airplanes, truck engine braking... you may want to reconsider if rural life is your cup of tea.

This x1000. We are "in the country" (although we are technically in the city limits of a fairly large city...but they annex EVERYTHING) and laugh at all the noises we hear. ATVs, gunshots, assorted wildlife, gunshots, trucks "rolling coal", gunshots...it can be quite noisy at times. But, it can be quite peaceful, too.

 

[NateW]

Good. Recognizing this is the first step in solving this problem forever. You just can't live like this!

The next step is to stop fretting about your neighbors and instead to start an intensive search for a smoke-free place to move to. I hope to read posts about various other homes you are considering.

Thanks, will do W2R. DW and I are discussing and researching locations. I also want to look into retirement communities and will review some of the threads on the ER site.

I've also decided not to engage the smoky neighbor, or attempt to rectify the situation by free wood, etc. I do appreciate everyone's different views on the matter. I was pretty ambivalent about this before.

 

[NateW]

Question for those who use wood-burning stoves

With the smoke as I have described, many times being copious, heavy and slow moving out the chimney (perhaps from choking off the air and/or poor draft) are those in the household at risk of bad health effects of chronic low-level smoke inhalation and carbon monoxide? Does the house get a lot of smoke in it when the stove door is opened? What about the stove pipe and chimney; if not under negative pressure do they leak? Also, during 0 wind speed days I would think the smoke would settle around his house and infiltrate it. Thus, I am perplexed as to why he operates his stove in this manner. He has to know how bad it smokes and that it's not a good thing for him and his family.

This is something I just noticed: It appears the stove is loaded with wood twice a day (around 5 am and 5 pm ) because right around those times the stove smokes not too badly and then suddenly begins belching white smoke with a slight grey tinge. Through the day smoke level slowly tappers off to this lower level and 12 hours later the cycle repeats. But the stench is fairly constant provided there is 0 wind speed or the wind is from his general direction, which is most of the time.

Unfortunately, the fire marshall visited him about 4 pm and now I understand why he said "I saw normal smoke levels".

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Thus, I am perplexed as to why he operates his stove in this manner. He has to know how bad it smokes and that it's not a good thing for him and his family.

We were at a friends' house once where both parents smoked inside the home, and had a child with asthma. They both lit up cigarettes once when we were there. Their child started coughing and instead of putting out their cigarettes, they told the kid to go get their inhaler. If they couldn't quit themselves they at least could have gone outside or even in the garage to smoke, yet they didn't.

 

[homestead]

We used a wood stove for 30 yrs or more and smoke will come into the house if you open the door to the stove but there is usually a damper on the stove or chimney pipe to open when you do that so there is minimal smoke getting into the house. Never had problem with pipe leaking into the house. The joints usually get sealed fairly well just by using the stove.
We would load up the stove with wood in the morning and let it run hot to get the wood fully involved then after a time start shutting down the air intake so the stove/house wouldn't overheat. Then repeat the process just shortly before bed so that the stove will run all night.
This process creates a lot of creosote unless you use very dry wood (seasoned 2yrs) and have a catalytic stove to burn the smoke. So then you must clean the chimney several times during the winter or you will get a chimney fire. But it give slow even heat without much intervention. We have since switched to a pellet stove and it solves most of the problems of a wood stove with no visible smoke coming out the chimney.

Perhaps your neighbors are burning trash(plastic) in their stove at times which would make the smoke more toxic.

 

[FDC319]

This process creates a lot of creosote unless you use very dry wood (seasoned 2yrs) and have a catalytic stove to burn the smoke. So then you must clean the chimney several times during the winter or you will get a chimney fire.

We had a chimney fire when I was a kid, so I am super sensitive to prevention.

In addition to yearly cleanouts and seasoned wood, it is always a good idea to run the stove really hot just before shutting it down so as to bake off as much creosote as possible.

I keep a couple of Chimfex extinguishers on hand as well. That's what the fire department used when we had our fire darn near 40 years ago.
https://www.chimfex.us/
They can be found at a lot of retailers.

 

[NateW]

I just checked the County records for the house sales near me and Wow!

I just checked the County land records and the following is for my side of the street. When facing my house, the four houses directly to my left and the two directly to my right all changed owners within the last two years. Of those 4 on my left, three of the sales were less than 1.5 years ago. The two on my right both change owners this year! Then the next three houses after the ones I just noted on both sides of me all have their original owners. I checked no others.

And my house changed owners within the last 1.5 years.

I think I know why everyone near me moved

In the winter it's the houses to my left that get the brunt what is left of the smoke after it hits my house when the prevailing winds blow.

I was beginning to think was going crazy because no one mentioned the smoke around here, so I began to think I was imagining the severity of the problem, or my sense of smell was too sensitive. I think it's more like those that knew moved and the new owners are not on the FB group. It took me a year to join it. Also, I think the ones that moved knew not to mention it. I goofed!

 

[Keim]

I just checked the County land records and the following is for my side of the street. When facing my house, the four houses directly to my left and the two directly to my right all changed owners within the last two years. Of those 4 on my left, three of the sales were less than 1.5 years ago. The two on my right both change owners this year! Then the next three houses after the ones I just noted on both sides of me all have their original owners. I checked no others.

And my house changed owners within the last 1.5 years.

I think I know why everyone near me moved

In the winter it's the houses to my left that get the brunt what is left of the smoke after it hits my house when the prevailing winds blow.

Interesting anecdotal evidence. But, it doesn't say much unless you also checked other houses in the hood that aren't in the line of smoke.

 

[statsman]

I think I know why everyone near me moved

It may not be what you think or want it to be. From my experience, what usually happens is someone in a neighborhood moves for whatever reason (upsizing, downsizing, retirement, job moving, job loss, death of owner, etc.). People in the neighborhood see the house sale and realize their own house is worth more than they expected. This can trigger a series of house sales in the neighborhood in a short period of time.

We lived on a short cul-de-sac at one time that had six houses. Within seven months of us selling our house to move to a bigger house, three of the other five houses were sold. It happens.

 

[NateW]

We had a chimney fire when I was a kid, so I am super sensitive to prevention.

In addition to yearly cleanouts and seasoned wood, it is always a good idea to run the stove really hot just before shutting it down so as to bake off as much creosote as possible.

I keep a couple of Chimfex extinguishers on hand as well. That's what the fire department used when we had our fire darn near 40 years ago.
https://www.chimfex.us/
They can be found at a lot of retailers.

FDC319 I truly apologize for the fire comment I made earlier; it was insensitive of me and I am sorry you had such a traumatic experience.

Thank you for the Chimfex link.

 

[NateW]

FWIW, I've found that inversions are most common in December. I've been in VA nearly 20 years now, a few miles south of SNP, and that's my informal observations. It's mostly from watching temps to see when snow making can happen at the ski resort, and being frustrated when the valley is colder. So maybe the rest of winter will be better.

Thanks RunningBum, I feel better knowing inversion layers aren't a full winter occurance.

 

[NateW]

Nate, it seems that you have a lot of sensitivities... smoke when your neighbors don't, airplanes, truck engine braking... you may want to reconsider if rural life is your cup of tea.

I am beginning to think it may not be and am proceeding along those lines.

 

[NateW]

Natew - Magnesium deficiencies are really common and may be linked to chemical and noise sensitivities. A functional medical doctor could run tests for that or similar issues.

These kinds of issues seem to run in my family so I'm pretty familiar with them but on the plus side they do seem to be fairly correctable with testing, supplements and maybe diet changes.

Thank you for the tip. I will look into this. I do take supplements, but I should see what type and how much magnesium I'm getting.

 

[NateW]

...All you did is try to justify your desire to burn this family's house to the ground with a little oopsy-just kidding at the end.

Here is the deal-YOU are the problem in this situation. You chose to move out of the city to one of the standard pop up neighborhoods that developers drop into old cow pastures. No issues with that-I lived in an old corn field in one state, and judging by the old granite walls & buried rusted barbed wire around my current place, I'm in a cow pasture here.

YOU have refused to assimilate into your new environment and instead seek to force others to modify their behavior based on your desires. Even to the point of researching legal means and government official harassment. You know what would have happened if this family was forced to go away from wood? They would have had to spend a significant amount of money installing new heat. Money they may not have-all because of YOU.

You can put all the health concern lipstick on this that you want it is still your issue and yours alone. Health issues suck, but we all have them and other than some disabilities covered under federal law it is incumbent upon ourselves to adapt versus forcing someone to accommodate us.

Understood and I appreciate the honest feedback. I'm learning a lot about myself (and my faults) as I work through this. I do agree that not burning wood would create a great hardship for this family. At times I really wanted to solve both our problems with the offer of a new stove or furnace, but at the same time feel I may make it worse.

On a positive note, I am not considering any type of legal action because it would be just plain wrong and hurtful for this family to be subjected to something like this. At first, I had no idea what to do, so I used Google to see what the law said and the County Code said that there was a smoke opacity standard/limit, but did not specify if it applied to businesses, or businesses and residences and the fire marshall had jurisdiction and that is why I called him. He explained the law to me and also said all he can do is visit the person and make sure they are using their stove correctly. And because I thought it may alleviate the smoke, told him who it was.

I have come to realize that this location and setting just does not work for DW and I. Unfortunately, when selecting this location I never considered those who lived here before the housing development I live in was built, and what impact we could have on each other. I have lived in the city all my life and just did not know any better to consider it.

 

[gwraigty]

I have come to realize that this location and setting just does not work for DW and I. Unfortunately, when selecting this location I never considered those who lived here before the housing development I live in was built, and what impact we could have on each other. I have lived in the city all my life and just did not know any better to consider it.

The county we live in is still mostly rural, although it's gradually been subjected to increasing amounts of development, both residential and shopping. It doesn't bother me, because I'm a native Clevelander. I spent the first 33 years of my life there. Overall, I'd much rather be close to amenities than stuck in the middle of nowhere. A country girl, I'm not.

In my 24 years here, I've overheard many snide remarks from people native to this area about how it's being ruined by all the new developments being built and all the new people moving in. Basically, if your family hasn't been here for several generations, you're still considered "new people". Many people actively try to keep new developments from going in, whether residential or shopping, and generally they lose. The area has more to gain economically from homes and stores being built than abandoned farmland just sitting there.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

A country girl, I'm not...

...the area has more to gain economically from homes and stores being built than abandoned farmland just sitting there.

I would assume that since you aren't a country girl, you can't or don't appreciate being in the middle of nowhere and slowly watching your "piece of heaven" [-]be developed[/-] have trees mowed down and ugly ass stick built homes put in.

 

[427Vette]

The county we live in is still mostly rural, although it's gradually been subjected to increasing amounts of development, both residential and shopping. It doesn't bother me, because I'm a native Clevelander. I spent the first 33 years of my life there. Overall, I'd much rather be close to amenities than stuck in the middle of nowhere. A country girl, I'm not.

In my 24 years here, I've overheard many snide remarks from people native to this area about how it's being ruined by all the new developments being built and all the new people moving in. Basically, if your family hasn't been here for several generations, you're still considered "new people". Many people actively try to keep new developments from going in, whether residential or shopping, and generally they lose. The area has more to gain economically from homes and stores being built than abandoned farmland just sitting there.

I live and was raised in a rural area. I dislike the idea of everyone moving into every cow pasture or piece of woods that comes available. The problem is that most newcomers move from the city and bring their big city ways with them. They all act the same, they get here and want to change our paradise into the crap hole that they fled from. The best solution is for them to stay where they are. We were all fine before they got here. The statement above about the area having more to gain from adding homes and stores is laughable. Could someone tell me how growth is beneficial? All that I see it accomplishes is more traffic, more crime, higher taxes, people complaining about wood smoke, the little stores we had disappear and super Walmart shows up.

 

[NateW]

Got the Honeywell Electronic Air Cleaner Installed

This was not the plug and play I hoped for. I used the Honeywell Media Filter frame that the builder installed to avoid having to split the duct and install the frame that came with the air cleaner. The media filter frame is the same frame the electronic air cleaner uses, but has punch outs that have to be removed. The two problems that made the install more difficult were: 1. Duct sealing mastic was gooped over the surface the air cleaner electronic box attaches to. This mastic is similar to epoxy and had to painstakingly be chiseled away and then sanded. 2. The builder's HVAC contractor attached the return duct top surface right on top of the media filter frame (contractor should have bent the last half inch of the duct inwards 90 degrees and screwed or rivited it to the frame tabs inside the ductwork), which prevented the air cleaner electronics from fitting into it's mounting slots. So doing a little metal work with my auto body tools to make a 90 degree flange, using sheet metal screws installed through the top duct surface and at an angle to engage the frame securing tabs, and careful caulk application solved the problem.

The air cleaner uses a supplied pre-filter and I am using the optional post filter for added effeciency. The rating is "MERV 12 to 16."

We had a reprieve from the smoke yesterday and today due to a rare southeast breeze, which smoked out the houses at the end of our street. During this time I aired out the house and it has become apparent the woodsmoke has impregnated all of our belongings. There was no smoke last night and we closed the windows overnight and this morning there was this noticable sour acrid stench and I had a mild headache and my eyes burned a little. DW notices the smell too. It is very apparent if I go outside for a couple of minutes (when no smoke is outside) in fresh air and then go back inside. Airing out the house completely relieves our symptoms.

I sure hope this air cleaner works because if not, I don't think we can stay in the house when the wind shifts back to the west-northwest, as is supposed to happen this evening and for at least the next 2 days. We still need to have some air exchange, more frequently than the smoke allows, to get oxygen and flush out indoor air pollutants and smoke particles that are outgassing. We can't even use the exhaust fans when the smoke is assaulting us. This has become a huge problem.

With many of people home all day for the holidays I am thinking people living near me may notice the smoke problem and say something about it.



.

 

[Jerry1]

Glad you have the mechanical wherewithal to get that done and not have to wait for a contractor. Hope it helps.

 

[Markola]

Well, if misery loves company, there are many articles on the web about unexpected shocks that city dwellers who move to the country encounter, like this one: https://www.theorganicprepper.com/city-folks-who-moved-to-the-country/

Good luck. You would have loved having my sweet grandmother as a new neighbor but probably not her burn barrel!

 

[NateW]

Glad you have the mechanical wherewithal to get that done and not have to wait for a contractor. Hope it helps.

Yes, it has served me very well over the years. I can only imagine what an HVAC company would charge Christmas Eve to install this. When I discovered the contractor attached the top of the return duct to the air cleaner electronics mounting surface, I said to myself, "I am the only one who's gonna fix this and get the air cleaner running before the winds shift, so I better figure out how to do it." The install took about 3 hours.

I do all our plumbing, electrical, home maintenance, and automotive repair and maintenance. This is my hobby, never any formal training, self taught.

 

[NateW]

Well, if misery loves company, there are many articles on the web about unexpected shocks that city dwellers who move to the country encounter, like this one: https://www.theorganicprepper.com/city-folks-who-moved-to-the-country/

Good luck. You would have loved having my sweet grandmother as a new neighbor but probably not her burn barrel!

Thank you Markola, this will be a good read for me since I can identify with it now.