New car/truck buying

[scottmn4]

I was in the same situation over the last 2 weeks in that I wanted a "new to me" car, but was getting unreasonably low trade-in value even though my previous car was in better shape than most used vehicles the dealers had on their lot. I listed my vehicle on 3 different sites in my area and got very quick interest from a couple people and ended up selling in about a week, and got $2,500 more than the best trade-in offer received from 3 different dealers. I also agree with others that you should consider buying something 1-3 years old and saving a ton of money. My last 3 vehicles were all 3-years old and had around 30K miles and I got them for nearly 50% off the original price and have had no issues with any of these cars.

 

[eytonxav]

Pushing for a good deal is worth the effort, but leaving over a $200 difference does not make sense to me.

 

[OldShooter]

Pushing for a good deal is worth the effort, but leaving over a $200 difference does not make sense to me.

The behavioral finance people write about this kind of decision. It is part of "mental accounting."

If you were choosing between two televisions, identical in every way, would a $200 price difference make a difference to you? I think it probably would.

But $200 is $200, regardless of the context, so logically we humans should value it the same whether we are buying a television or a truck. But we tend to not understand this. That's why Thaler called his book "Misbehaving."

 

[finnski1]

The behavioral finance people write about this kind of decision. It is part of "mental accounting."

If you were choosing between two televisions, identical in every way, would a $200 price difference make a difference to you? I think it probably would.

But $200 is $200, regardless of the context, so logically we humans should value it the same whether we are buying a television or a truck. But we tend to not understand this. That's why Thaler called his book "Misbehaving."

Way back in 1988 I was purchasing a brand new toyota pickup.
As we got down to the final nitty gritty on price we had come to a hundred dollar difference. I held my ground. As I was getting up to leave the exasperated salesman said to me. "Do you mean to tell me that for a hundred dollars you're not going to buy the truck." To which I replied "Do you mean to tell me for a hundred dollars you're not going to sell me that truck."
I got my hundred dollars and the truck.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I won't get into much of the specifics, but for those that think that you "pulled one over" on the stealership...well, that doesn't happen. Sure the numbers might look like you did a GREAT job, but in the end...the house always wins.

DW just finished purchasing a new Toyota. I won't bore you with the details, but she haggled with 9 different dealerships before finally buying a vehicle that is 300 miles away. There is quite the shortage with some cars, especially those that are fully built in Japan and the dealers KNOW THIS and use it to their advantage. She did eventually make a deal that she was fairly happy with but not without a LOT of pain and gnashing of teeth. You know what they say about a contract that indicates that it's fair? Neither party is happy.

Anyway, selling her car through Carvana was a no brainer. They came in almost $3K more than any dealership (or Carmax) would and a few dealers didn't believe the price. As a matter of fact, her first offer was bumped up by $600 when she resubmitted it (the price is good for only 7 days). I noticed that they have very little for sale and the ones they have listed were "pending sale." That process was very, VERY easy and I would highly recommend it if you don't want to deal with private party sales or getting any tax breaks for trade-ins if your state does that.

Doc fees: These days, all the dealers are charging this and some have the balls to tack a price of $600 or more for this. NONE of them would take this fee away totally, but the dealership she did buy from cut it in half.

 

[Happyras]

Well we have had a year full of car deals and got pretty educated in the current trend.
First was an I-Pace no trade, just for fun but it was a lemon and got $$$ back.
Second we ordered a Mercedes GLC 350e for Euro Delivery, Covid and delays we cancelled it. We bought a new Ram 3500 dually as an upgrade to our 2014 because we can. This one we decided to order and trade. The order price was $14000 below MSRP, not bad. I took my trade in around before going in to receive the ordered truck. I negotiated a trade with 1 dealer who fell just short of what I wanted, so I kept my delivery at the other dealer. I got there and the manager low balled me completely.

I was ready to walk out until he came up to the trade value the other dealer offered. It gave me real world leverage, but I still did not get what I had hoped, but good enough.

I just took delivery on a new BMW X3 30e. (nice car BTW) I negotiated over the phone in March and they shut down the factory so it took a little longer. I had no trade, but got about 12% off of MSRP a fair deal with 0.9% finance 0 down. Last minute I threw in a trade before delivery. I gave our daughter the 2014 Jeep GC, and traded in her 2004 Liberty (formerly ours and it barely ran). I was so glad to not have to tow it away, they gave me a full $500 trade in, no questions.

Point is, you can mess around with the trade for convenience. In one case it took a major effort to squeeze another $5000 out the trade, the other case I didn't care about the money as much as the disposal cost avoidance.

 

[COcheesehead]

Give me my Costco buying program anytime. I don't care if you can beat it by $50 or $500. To spend another hour or 6 in a car dealership, I would rather stick needles in my eyes.

 

[bloom2708]

The dealer offered me $8,500 for my trade.

I sold it in 2 days on Craigslist for $12,000. That is better than saving 5% tax on $8,500.

Try to get "private party" by selling yourself. You have time. Then go in as a cash buyer.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Give me my Costco buying program anytime. I don't care if you can beat it by $50 or $500. To spend another hour or 6 in a car dealership, I would rather stick needles in my eyes.

While it has been a number of years, my DW's last purchase was attempted through the Costco buying deal. There was still plenty of pain and there were issues that had to be dealt with. Was it any easier? Hell no. Hopefully it's gotten a little better.

Personally, I had a great experience when I bought my truck through CarMax. All the paperwork was essentially done before I went to the lot and total time on lot was a bit over an hour. No way I would *personally* by a brand new car, simply because I hate the process that hasn't really changed in 30+ years.

 

[finnski1]

Give me my Costco buying program anytime. I don't care if you can beat it by $50 or $500. To spend another hour or 6 in a car dealership, I would rather stick needles in my eyes.

There is no need to spend many hours in a car dealership anymore.
Got many quotes in 2 minutes by email. No hassle and letting them compete against each other can definitely save you thousands.
Then play a little hardball at the end to save a little more.
I also told my salesman when I come in I want zero add ons or up sales from the F and I guy.
Took 5 minutes to purchase thru the F and I office this way with no hard sells

.Right before he printed out the p & s I also pulled out my $500 loyalty coupon from Subaru and they took $500 more off before signing.
Didn't want to tell them about that coupon before then so they wouldn't play games with that and change the deal.

 

[COcheesehead]

There is no need to spend many hours in a car dealership anymore.
Got many quotes in 2 minutes by email. No hassle and letting them compete against each other can definitely save you thousands.
Then play a little hardball at the end to save a little more.
I also told my salesman when I come in I want zero add ons or up sales from the F and I guy.
Took 5 minutes to purchase thru the F and I office this way with no hard sells

.Right before he printed out the p & s I also pulled out my $500 loyalty coupon from Subaru and they took $500 more off before signing.
Didn't want to tell them about that coupon before then so they wouldn't play games with that and change the deal.

My comment was for the OP. Seems like they enjoy hanging around a dealer.

 

[COcheesehead]

While it has been a number of years, my DW's last purchase was attempted through the Costco buying deal. There was still plenty of pain and there were issues that had to be dealt with. Was it any easier? Hell no. Hopefully it's gotten a little better.

Personally, I had a great experience when I bought my truck through CarMax. All the paperwork was essentially done before I went to the lot and total time on lot was a bit over an hour. No way I would *personally* by a brand new car, simply because I hate the process that hasn't really changed in 30+ years.

Bought my Jeep Rubicon using Costco. Easiest deal ever.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

Buying and selling are 2 different transactions. WHen you try to blend the 2, you run into problems.

I wont tell you what to do, Ill tell you what I did that I feel OK about. I went and test drove a vehicle, new, selected it and my options. Learned the interior color i wanted only came in 2 exterior colors. SO then I had the salesman give me a written price on that exact car. HE didnt even have one, but one was "on the truck." ok whatever. SO then i went home. found duplicates at other dealerhsips (easy on a new car, xyz trim level, abc colors). Called the dealer, asked them to put me on the phone with a salesman, told him what i wanted specifically and that i knew he had it or could get it. Told him i had XXX price from the other dealer. WHich was a lie. I told him i had a price 500 less than what i really had. TOld him to beat it and i would come write him a check today. He called me back and beat it. Text messaged my first salesman at dealer number one. Lied down again, told him i just got a price from the other dealer 1000 lower than what they actually gave me. Told him to beat it and i would come buy from him today adn write him a check. I did this operation about twice. 3 numbers from both dealerhsips, headed southward all the time. When both of them hit their stopping point i knew i had them as low as I think they could go. SO then i chose by color. Did i want blue or green. I wanted green, so went in and wrote a check and drove away. I think this whole oepration took a couple days to choose the car, I checked one out for an overnight test drive, and then about 4 hours off and on with texting and calling (i think i had one guys desk number and one guys cell number). But I took several thousand off the price. which was OK. Transaction was easy, they let me do 5k on a chasback credit card, check for the rest, no upsell on a warranty and they let me leave.

 

[OldShooter]

I won't get into much of the specifics, but for those that think that you "pulled one over" on the stealership...well, that doesn't happen. Sure the numbers might look like you did a GREAT job, but in the end...the house always wins. ...

There is no win/lose really. A transaction price is where a willing buyer meets a willing seller. My goal is to get as close as possible to the seller's walk-away price, even though I will never know exactly how close I got. His goal is the mirror image of that. That's what negotiation is all about.

Doc fees: These days, all the dealers are charging this and some have the balls to tack a price of $600 or more for this. NONE of them would take this fee away totally, but the dealership she did by from cut it in half.

Too bad. I don't remember the last time I paid a doc fee. I've had it happen more than once, though, that the F&I guy leaves the doc fee showing on the ticket and reduces the vehicle fee by the same amount. That's ego salve for him and CYA for when his boss reviews the deal.

 

[pb4uski]

.... Too bad. I don't remember the last time I paid a doc fee. I've had it happen more than once, though, that the F&I guy leaves the doc fee showing on the ticket and reduces the vehicle fee by the same amount. That's ego salve for him and CYA for when his boss reviews the deal.

+1 I always object to it and tell them that doing paperwork is part of the cost of doing business, that it is super simple these days with computers and that I'm not going to pay hundreds for them to do the paperwork.... they eventually either reduce the price of the car or increase the value of the trade for the doc fee which is usually pre-printed on their form so they can claim with the unknowing that it is "required". Scam.

 

[Qs Laptop]

There is no need to spend many hours in a car dealership anymore.
Got many quotes in 2 minutes by email. No hassle and letting them compete against each other can definitely save you thousands.
Then play a little hardball at the end to save a little more.
I also told my salesman when I come in I want zero add ons or up sales from the F and I guy.
Took 5 minutes to purchase thru the F and I office this way with no hard sells

.Right before he printed out the p & s I also pulled out my $500 loyalty coupon from Subaru and they took $500 more off before signing.
Didn't want to tell them about that coupon before then so they wouldn't play games with that and change the deal.

This is about how I do my business vehicle leases every three years. My last time the F&I guy, who I know from three previous deals, said "c'mon throw me a bone here. I'll look bad if I can't upsell you something." We both chuckled and I said he could nick me for three oil changes for $49. Done.

One last thing, "Don't put any dealership name decals or dealership license plate holders on my vehicle or I'll make you take them off before I drive away."

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

The dealer offered me $8,500 for my trade.

I sold it in 2 days on Craigslist for $12,000. That is better than saving 5% tax on $8,500.

Try to get "private party" by selling yourself. You have time. Then go in as a cash buyer.

+1. I know I've brought this up before, but my dad had less than 5K miles on his 2014 Toyota Corolla when he passed away, but had scratched up the sides quite a bit. I first brought it to Carmax, who offered me $9K for it as-is. Kelly Blue Book value in pristine condition was about $14.5K. I found a local body shop that would make it look like new for $2.5K, and then I put a couple hundred into detailing it, so if I could sell it for more than $12K I figured it would be worth my extra time and effort.

I posted it for $14.5K, and sold it for $13.9K.

 

[Golden sunsets]

Bought a new Mercedes GLB on 4/30/2020. We did everything via email, as the dealership was technically closed. We had been planning this trade for Q2 2020, for some time. Our trade in was a 10 year old Mercedes ML 350. We knew what we wanted for a vehicle. In the end we arrived at the dealership after negotiations had concluded, test drove the car and signed the paperwork. Total time at the dealership was 1 hr.

We also knew that our best approach would be to initially separate the new vehicle purchase from the trade in sale. So we negotiated the purchase of the new vehicle by getting the purchase price on similarly equipped vehicles at two different delearships and haggled back and forth a few times. We then struck the best purchase price at the dealership closest to us.

We then asked what the trade in would be, if we added a trade in and were given a price of $5,000 that was $1,000 lower than KBB. We decided to list the trade in on Craigslist and had multiple offers within days and sold it for $4,000 more than the dealership offer.

We have sold 3 cars successfully on Craigslist very quickly. I do believe there is an art to listing a car on Craigslist. Get the car into very clean shape. Take many pics, from all sides, inside and out. Make the pics as attractive as possible -sunny day, etc. Be very specific in the description with the specs on the car. We use the original window sticker and quote the most important amenities. Also mention recent improvements, e.g. new tires, brakes, etc. Include inspection sticker expiration date. We also routinely keep every servicing for our cars and state in the listing that full service records will be provided. Be careful with the purchaser. Cash only, use a counterfeit pen.

 

[pb4uski]

.... Be careful with the purchaser. Cash only, use a counterfeit pen.

+1 I met the prospective purchaser at a local convenience store that has a bank in the building.... a public place. He looked at the car and we took a short test drive... he made me an offer, I countered and he accepted. We walked into the bank and he handed the purchase price in cash... I handed it to the teller and she checked it and made a deposit to my account at which point I signed the title and keys over to him. We shook hands and he and his GF drove away and I called DW to pick me up.

 

[OldShooter]

... Be careful with the purchaser. Cash only, use a counterfeit pen.

Lesson learned: One time I was selling a car, IIRC the price was $3500. Buyer showed up with $3400 cash and asked if I would take a check for the final $100. It turned out to be a bad check of course. Also, he did not transfer the title and managed to collect a few traffic tickets. They came to me, of course, and I had to show the bill of sale to prove I didn't own the car any more. Fortunately that is a tear-off portion of the car title form, so it is created as part of the transaction.

Now I make sure that if I sell to a private party he and I go to the DMV get the title transferred immediately. And no checks, even small ones, of course. Best scenario is to go with him to his bank, get the dough, and make sure the bank gets the title paperwork. They will ensure it gets transferred and their lien recorded.

 

[JP.mpls]

OP: An update on my car buying experience.

First a few comments:
- I'm not doing this for entertainment. I want a truck instead of my car prior to October when I'm driving down to Florida for my first full snowbirding winter.
- I'm not looking for the absolute best deal. I'm just hoping to not get screwed completely.

The situation:
This dealer has the truck I want in the color I want. That is how I ended up there.

They are a big outfit, and their on line price that includes a bunch of incentives and rebates is very good. I haven't seen lower. They are not negotiating on the price.

They offered very low trade in 13k. I asked 15k. He came up to 13.5k, and I offered 14.5k, then 14k and 13.75k via texts after leaving. All rejected. $250 difference rejected.

After comments from this forum I decided to sell my Honda myself.

Sales guy texted me the next day, and offered me the same exact price. Same GM incentives in July. I asked if he would offer same price and loan rate without trade, and he said yes. Told him I would come in to try to get the deal done.

Dealers on Cargurus.com are asking mid to upper 17k for my Honda. I figured I would have to be lower than dealers, and should get 16.5 or 16.0k selling it myself.

Dealer bumped his trade offer up to 14k when I got there. Tax savings with trade in value is about $900. I'm now going to make 1.0 to 1.5k selling it myself. I accepted their offer. It is convenient, and they know it.

Looked over a data sheet with prices all defined. Noticed the initial price is higher than I remembered. I checked their on line ad, and they are +$500 over the ad on their sales price. After 10 minutes in pricing guys office he comes back, and says I'm correct. Numbers adjusted. WTH.

Dealer never gave me exact loan rate. When pushed I was told 2.5% to 4.5% depending on credit. I kept telling him they need to come through with the 2.5%.

Finance guys office. Offers me 3.4%. Very frustrating process, they know I've put effort into this deal, and wanted the truck. Stubborn old cheap guy almost walked again. I'm tired of this process, so I gave in one more time, and I bought the truck.

My conclusions:
- no trade is best. Unclutters the negotiations. Just the plan of not trading got them to bump up the trade value. I got lazy.
- someone mentioned slightly used savings. It is probably vehicle dependent. When I looked at the trucks I wanted, they wanted close to new prices. It surprised me.
- It was a cleaner process buying my Honda.
I had no trade, and used an online site called truecar to get quotes from multiple dealers. I still think it would have gotten muddled with a trade. None of the numbers are set until you get trade value determined. Got to go to each place in person for that.
- I should have gotten a quote from Carmax and Caravan for Honda based on several comments.
- I would say that I got screwed by the new car dealership as expected, but not totally. I pulled off an okay transaction. I did get the truck I wanted. I didn't enjoy the process.
- Street, you got me fired up with your comments about how well your Colorado has worked out for you. I really like my new truck.

Thanks for all the comments. JP

 

[Ronstar]

Jp - get a nice hard shell lockable tonneau cover before you head down to Florida. Chances are you'll have a truck bed load and you'll need to protect your stuff from the elements, etc. Take a look at Undercover. They make a solid cover. I have a color matched one on my current truck and a black one on my last truck. Protected a lot of loads snowbirding to Az.

Enjoy your truck!

 

[eytonxav]

The behavioral finance people write about this kind of decision. It is part of "mental accounting."

If you were choosing between two televisions, identical in every way, would a $200 price difference make a difference to you? I think it probably would.

But $200 is $200, regardless of the context, so logically we humans should value it the same whether we are buying a television or a truck. But we tend to not understand this. That's why Thaler called his book "Misbehaving."

If I was TV shopping and I could buy the identical TV for $200 cheaper, I would if you could actually find one $200 cheaper. Hoping for a better price can leave one waiting for a long time and possibly missing out entirely.

 

[aja8888]

Jp, you did just fine for the truck purchase. In Texas, no way would you have gotten that kind if deal as trucks are like gold down this way. Keep that beauty 10 + years and you will get 1/2 you purchase price back. Good used trucks sell fast and for good money.

 

[REWahoo]

Finance guys office. Offers me 3.4%. Very frustrating process, they know I've put effort into this deal, and wanted the truck. Stubborn old cheap guy almost walked again. I'm tired of this process, so I gave in one more time, and I bought the truck.

Keep an eye out for refinance deals offered by credit unions. PenFed CU has sub 3% rates currently.