Nice Cars... is it a vice?

[foxfirev5]

Only keeping 5-8 years? When we bought our 2008 Honda Pilot (which is still our every day vehicle), we sold our '93 Taurus. Last year I bought a new Tacoma and sold my '93 Toyota pickup. So 15-25+ years is what works for us. I don't think we are too frugal, since that Pilot still looks and drives like new with about 172,000 miles on it.

Yeah I'm interested in a new Taco but DW won't part with our 15 year old Lexus. The dang things simply last forever. No way we'll consider giving it away for a few $$. Looks and runs like new. Likewise we're not cheapskates but I can not justify buying a new vehicle. I guess Toyota never bought into the planned obsolescence of many manufacturers.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I just noticed that my neighbor of about 6 houses down the street has a McLaren, not sure which one, but it is new, and one of those new Corvettes too. I must give him credit, I see him driving by in one of them nearly every other day. I followed him to the gate today on my way to the post office. Must have a lot of disposable cash. While they are both nice cars I cannot see myself in one as I am approaching the big 70. He is a bit younger than me, but not by that much. I only know him in passing, he does have a 4 car garage so I suppose he has to put something in it.

 

[eytonxav]

Performance end or....

RS5, I consider it a luxury GT car.

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

I got excited when I saw a Tesla Model X P100D in the parking lot. Then I looked up the price. Guess it won't be on my list of vices. Best car we have is a 2013 Audi Q5 with about 35K miles. I use a 2006 Honda CRV to drag my golf clubs around. And my has a 2008 Mini that she loves.

Yeah, the Tesla Model X is not a value car, especially not the P100D (Performance version)!

But the Model 3 Performance version is 95% as fast and "only" costs $57K. This is a car that will beat a number of exotic sports cars that can cost up to a million dollars or more. I'm a cheapskate and would never splurge on a fast gas car due to wanting better "value". But I consider the Model 3 to offer real financial value regardless of the trim level. Probably the AWD Long-Range offers the most value because it will blow the doors off most V-8's and it costs $8K less than the Performance model.

I see a lot of people talk about "fast" cars but one drive in a $57K Model 3 will redefine what it means to be fast. I used to think my 1000cc Ducati motorcycle was fast - no longer. But the real kicker is that any gasoline car that is truly fast is going to be very expensive and the expense doesn't end with the purchase price. They all get rather dismal fuel economy and the price and frequency of required maintenance can be a real eye-opener.

On the other hand, the Performance version of the Model 3 is just as efficient as the non-performance version (which in itself has eye-opening performance) and both have lower costs of operation than that frugal Honda CRV!

 

[eytonxav]

Yeah, the Tesla Model X is not a value car, especially not the P100D (Performance version)!

But the Model 3 Performance version is 95% as fast and "only" costs $57K. This is a car that will beat a number of exotic sports cars that can cost up to a million dollars or more.

The S P100D maybe, but not the model 3 performance.

 

[Car-Guy]

How about luxury high performance cars

Absolutely... A nice car(s) is whatever you think it is....Performance, power, luxury, expensive, fancy options, restored antiques, reliable, etc, etc... Whatever floats your boat.

For me it's changed over the years. In my teens it was anything that would run and had a V8. In my 20's it was anything that ran with a V8 and AC. In my 30's, 40's and 50's it was more about flashy looks, higher performance and restored collectables. In my later 60's it became more about ultra high performance, luxury, latest gadgets and comfort.

 

[Dtail]

Absolutely... A nice car(s) is whatever you think it is....Performance, power, luxury, expensive, fancy options, restored antiques, reliable, etc, etc... Whatever floats your boat.

For me it's changed over the years. In my teens it was anything that would run and had a V8. In my 20's it was anything that ran with a V8 and AC. In my 30's, 40's and 50's it was more about flashy looks, higher performance and restored collectables. In my later 60's it became more about ultra high performance, luxury, latest gadgets and comfort.

Still love my Z4. Yes getting just a tad more difficult to get out of now, but I know this is it as to my last sports car, so will enjoy it for now.
Driving it around in our Covid era also is a great distraction.

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

The S P100D maybe, but not the model 3 performance.

Tesla provided a free over-the-air update last year to owners of the Performance Model 3. I was getting 0-60 mph times of 3.2 seconds before the update, now it's down to 3.0 seconds flat. And a number of owners are getting it under 3 seconds at tracks with professional timing equipment. These are the un-modified Tesla Model 3 Performance you can buy for $57K.

On the other hand, there are a slew of exotic and very expensive cars (Ferrari's, Bugatti's, etc.) that can't accelerate that fast even with their expensive to maintain V12's and the like:

https://www.hotcars.com/15-slow-supercars-that-cant-crack-a-0-60mph-time-of-3-seconds/

The Model 3 (in any trim level) is a lot quicker in the real world than the specs would suggest because the power is instantaneous - there is no perceptible lag, no downshift and no preparation required (unlike many cars that you need to put it in "launch mode" or whatnot to get the fastest time). With the Model 3 you simply floor it and it rips forward (as your cheeks try to peel backward off your face).

Because there is no wheelspin or squealing, and no downshift and roaring engine, you can actually use ALL the acceleration in normal traffic without danger of attracting attention or losing control. The main thing you have to remember is to let off the accelerator before you are into ticket-getting territory. Because it will go from legal speeds to highly illegal speeds more quickly than a cop can say "Can I see your license and registration please?"!

So, yeah, with the only downside being initial cost, and the operating costs that are lower than an economy car, it was an easy choice. Most performance cars make terrible daily drivers. The Tesla Model 3 is a great daily driver!

 

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^^^^

Lot's of the "supercars" in the link you provided can probably actually break 3 sec 0-60, regardless of what the specs say. I've always been able to beat the factory spec on my unmodified high performance cars, sometimes by a good bit...My current daily driver beats it's factory published 0-60 and 1/4 times by ~5 tenths. I've never driven a Tesla M3 so I can't comment on their actual performance with any authority but I have seen one and from 70 to 100 I beat him with my stock Jeep. He back off at that point and I never got another chance to challenge him. I'm sure he was embarrassed by getting beat by a Jeep. I really wanted to see how he'd do in the 1/4 but never got a chance.

 

[eytonxav]

Tesla provided a free over-the-air update last year to owners of the Performance Model 3. I was getting 0-60 mph times of 3.2 seconds before the update, now it's down to 3.0 seconds flat. And a number of owners are getting it under 3 seconds at tracks with professional timing equipment. These are the un-modified Tesla Model 3 Performance you can buy for $57K.

On the other hand, there are a slew of exotic and very expensive cars (Ferrari's, Bugatti's, etc.) that can't accelerate that fast even with their expensive to maintain V12's and the like:

https://www.hotcars.com/15-slow-supercars-that-cant-crack-a-0-60mph-time-of-3-seconds/

The Model 3 (in any trim level) is a lot quicker in the real world than the specs would suggest because the power is instantaneous - there is no perceptible lag, no downshift and no preparation required (unlike many cars that you need to put it in "launch mode" or whatnot to get the fastest time). With the Model 3 you simply floor it and it rips forward (as your cheeks try to peel backward off your face).

Because there is no wheelspin or squealing, and no downshift and roaring engine, you can actually use ALL the acceleration in normal traffic without danger of attracting attention or losing control. The main thing you have to remember is to let off the accelerator before you are into ticket-getting territory. Because it will go from legal speeds to highly illegal speeds more quickly than a cop can say "Can I see your license and registration please?"!

So, yeah, with the only downside being initial cost, and the operating costs that are lower than an economy car, it was an easy choice. Most performance cars make terrible daily drivers. The Tesla Model 3 is a great daily driver!

Yes, instantaneous acceleration is spectacular. I did not realize they had updated to improve the cars acceleration, but 0-60 is only one measure of performance and using a draggy (accelerometer) may not be accurate. Nevertheless, what a car runs the quarter mile in on a drag strip and around a road course is where the Tesla Model 3 will drop off. I am not sure how their sports car version would perform if its even available yet.

 

[Car-Guy]

Yes, instantaneous acceleration is spectacular. I did not realize they had updated to improve the cars acceleration, but 0-60 is only one measure of performance and using a draggy (accelerometer) may not be accurate. Nevertheless, what a car runs the quarter mile in on a drag strip and around a road course is where the Tesla Model 3 will drop off. I am not sure how their sports car version would perform if its even available yet.

Interesting comment on the draggy... Mine has the functionality built in and it is within 1 tenth of the tracks times. At the strip I can't get 0-60 times from the track clocks but I do get the 1/4 ET and MPH and it's spot on. Seem they have really improved on the accuracy of these tools....

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

Yes, instantaneous acceleration is spectacular. I did not realize they had updated to improve the cars acceleration, but 0-60 is only one measure of performance and using a draggy (accelerometer) may not be accurate. Nevertheless, what a car runs the quarter mile in on a drag strip and around a road course is where the Tesla Model 3 will drop off. I am not sure how their sports car version would perform if its even available yet.

Yes, all the Long-Range versions got the power upgrade for free. There is an additional power upgrade for AWD owners they can buy for $2,000. It doesn't make it as fast as the Performance but it's close. Of course you don't get the "Track Mode" mentioned below for the regular AWD. $2K might seem like a lot for a software upgrade unless you have watched motorheads put $5,000 and a lot of blood sweat and tears into an engine upgrade to get a smaller improvement (that often comes with the downside of more gas consumption, rougher idle and reduced longevity). It makes the $2,000 software power upgrade a no-brainer.

I don't take my cars to the track but those who do are reporting the "Track Mode" update that was delivered free to all Performance Model 3's pretty much eliminates the way the power used to fall off after a couple of high-speed laps.
There are also settings for adjusting (using sliders) the power bias front/rear, adjusting the degree of traction and stability control and the amount of regenerative braking that is blended in.

I have played with these and the results were nothing short of amazing. I took it to a big empty parking lot in an industrial area one morning and, using the newly downloaded menu items for Track Mode, I turned off all electronic "nannies" and dialed the power bias to 100% rear-wheel drive. Oh - my - God! The rear end would light up light a Rhesus monkey on crystal meth! It was burnouts on command, just press the throttle past halfway and steer to the left or right and the rear end was hanging perpendicular while the tires were ripping big squeals and leaving a cloud of rubber smoke.

That's more of a dramatic party trick than anything useful for daily driving, LOL! But the track guys can use these infinitely adjustable sliders to good effect. You can even save different setups for different tracks.

 

[eytonxav]

Probably being silent makes the Tesla performance even more startling, I would think. I'll have to test drive one.

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

Probably being silent makes the Tesla performance even more startling, I would think. I'll have to test drive one.

I'm not convinced about that. The silence and lack of tire squealing definitely makes it more "stealth" in public and I think it might also make it more deceptive to the occupants. Sometimes I think the sound of screeching tires and roaring engine might make ICE cars appear to be faster than they really are.

For example, I have two identical sport motorcycles. One of them has performance carbon fiber pipes (deeper and much louder sound levels) and an opened up airbox that puts the loud "honk" of the air rushing into an engine at full throttle right near the riders head. The other motorcycle has the much quieter stock exhaust and air intake. Other than that, they are identical.

On the stopwatch, the modified bike accelerates about 3% more quickly. But when you get off one bike and onto the other, you would swear the louder bike is much more powerful and faster. I think the loud noise fools the rider into thinking it's more powerful than it really is.

The Performance Model 3 has taken away the luster of my two motorcycles. Before getting the Tesla I thought they sounded glorious with their Ducati Superbike engines which are some of the best sounding motorcycle engines out there with none of that irritating "wail" the in-line 4 cylinders are famous for, especially the one with carbon-fiber pipes and open airbox.

Now that I know you can go fast without all that distracting noise the bikes are simply not that fun to ride anymore. I actually prefer the quiet performance of the Tesla. When I punch it, all I hear is the jet-turbine like sound of the electric drivetrain and the slight scuffing of the tires as the electronic systems manages torque to keep the tires at the limits of traction. I had never heard this sound before except under heavy braking because, in more ordinary cars, the engine sounds and vibrations completely overwhelm the subtle tire noises. The Tesla is like a spaceship from the future in terms of power and control.

 

[Bamaman]

I have had over 100 new cars in my years working for an automobile manufactuer.

But now that I'm paying, I'm more frugal and driving them longer.
2003 F250 Lariat diesel crew cab
2008 Lexus IS250
2018 Toyota Camry Hybrid (49 mpg)
2020 Ford F150 STX SuperCrew--bought with a $3K coupon received in the mail last week. Pd. $14K under MSRP.
1999 Jaguar XK8 convertible.

When I get over my current construction projects, the F250's going to be sold.

 

[1-31-18]

I have had over 100 new cars in my years working for an automobile manufactuer.



But now that I'm paying, I'm more frugal and driving them longer.

2003 F250 Lariat diesel crew cab

2008 Lexus IS250

2018 Toyota Camry Hybrid (49 mpg)

2020 Ford F150 STX SuperCrew--bought with a $3K coupon received in the mail last week. Pd. $14K under MSRP.

1999 Jaguar XK8 convertible.



When I get over my current construction projects, the F250's going to be sold.

You are definitely a “car guy.” Are you sure you don’t live in Detroit? When I was there, I bought a new Cadillac every couple of years on an exec plan. But when I moved to downtown Chicago, Cadillacs literally didn’t fit.

Now we own one car, age 6 months. In that time we have driven it less than 200 miles, not even 500 miles per year. That is not a Covid casualty. It’s a function of how little we need a car. With a walkscore of 98, everything we want is within walking distance. That includes my office, which I have found I no longer want.

The per-mile cost is staggering: parking space maintenance and real estate tax on same, $1,500 per year; cost of capital for owning parking space, another $1,000; insurance, about $1,000; city and state fees, $300; depreciation of car must be at least $2,000 even though it’s new and we rarely use it. That’s nearly $6,000 a year and you will notice that I haven’t put gasoline in it yet.

If gas is free (it nearly is, thanks to the Saudis and Russians) and maintenance is zero, I’m spending $12 per mile on this car. If we were as frugal as we aspire to be, we wouldn’t own even one car. But the convenience of having one handy when needed trumps that concern.

I do think this car will last at least 12 years — it’s a Subaru, why not 30 years at this rate? — and we will need at most one more car beside it. (In our mid-80s and beyond, I envision that others will do all the driving.) So that part is good, at least.

The only people I know in the city who own more than two cars seem to own 20 or 30 or more cars and, like me, they don’t drive them much. They collect them and show them. (The fellow who owns the most cars doesn’t even show them. He’s an odd duck, in my opinion.)

 

[braumeister]

(The fellow who owns the most cars doesn’t even show them. He’s an odd duck, in my opinion.)

Maybe not all that odd. They collector I know doesn't show his cars either (he has several dozen), but he goes to the big shows looking for cars to buy and add to his collection. The remarkable thing about him is that he keeps them all street legal and drives each one at least once a year.

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

I hope for your sake that the rumors about Tesla building their next factory in Texas is wrong.

I imagine that's a joke, most Texans like their cars and trucks built in America by hard-working Americans and if they are made in Texas, by Texans, it's even better.

But Tulsa, Oklahoma has done a bang-up job on this short video in an attempt to lure Tesla away from Texas and into Tulsa:

https://ktul.com/news/local/tulsa4t...ow-the-company-why-tulsa-is-a-wise-investment

It's a pretty compelling short video if you ask me! I'm not sure how they could have made it any better.

 

[Car-Guy]

I hope for your sake that the rumors about Tesla building their next factory in Texas is wrong.

Actually, I'm not against Tesla building a factory here.... (Although I don't personally like Tesla's or any EV's for that matter) My concerns are the same as many native Texans when any company moves here.

 

[Tom52]

I currently have three vehicles,

2018 crew cab Silverado pickup
1965 Chevy Impala SS convertible
2019 Yamaha golf cart

Since we live in a golf cart community, I have driven the golf cart more miles this year than the other two. This is partially due the recent shutdown.

The old convertible is mostly used for car cruises and car shows. It has around 45,000 original miles on it. I have owned it for 21 years.

I am a car guy and have owned many old muscle cars/collector cars over the years. Lots of great memories.

 

[rayinpenn]

My late brother Bruce was a bit of a gear head. Not long out of high school he landed a great blue collar job and put a lot of money into his rides. The concept of an emergency fund, building a pile and becoming independent was absent. In retrospect It was money that was better spent/saved/invested elsewhere. His wheels constantly broke down and I was his recovery service. One cold February night I saw the folly in it; that’s is possibly why my first car was a VW bug.

The answer is if it gives you joy and you can afford it -why not? The problem is too many buy a zoom zoom they can ill afford. I call it ‘shiny red truck syndrome”. It’s bling with wheels nothing more nothing less.

The older I get the less stuff means to me.

 

[athena53]

Cars have always been a low priority in my life. (Travel, OTOH...) I last bought a current model year car in 1991. After that, DH and I bought used from Enterprise and drove them till they were no longer reliable. I was pretty sure I'd never buy another current model year car. And then...

Last week my 2012 Nissan Sentra developed transmission problems that would cost more to fix than it was worth. I was visiting DS and DDIL 3 hours away in another state. DS knows cars much better than I do and we investigated prices on-line, I chose a Honda Civic (too cheap to spring for extra for the Accord), got a price over the phone. I decided to donate the old car to Habitat for Humanity and financed it by getting cash from my brokerage account (advisor told me I could afford a BMW). 2020s not much more expensive than 2018s and no need to have a used model checked out by a mechanic. I wanted the deal done. And no BS over trade-ins and financing.

So, I drove home in a new Honda Civic. In a way it was good timing. I'm sure as heck not spending much on travel this year and I have IOUs up the wazoo from airlines and a tour company for when I'm ready for major travel.

 

[Ginny]

2015 rv trailer 27'
2014 Hurricane deck boat 24' with 300 hp
2008 Dodge Ram truck with cummins diesel
2011 250C Lexus convertible
1998 Harley Road King
2015 Harley Trike
2018 Toyota Highlander

I call it conspicuous consumption.

 

[kingkarmann]

You all have inspires me to take a post retirement lap!
She's not fast, she's a little low, but she has some nice curves

 

[jimbee]

You all have inspires me to take a post retirement lap!
She's not fast, she's a little low, but she has some nice curves

Your car looks great, and matches your forum handle.