Older Texans, but < 75 Y.O.A. - Change in Jury Duty law

[Car-Guy]

There’s a saying in spanish, “El disable sabe más por viejo que por diablo”. Roughly translated, the devil knows more because he’s old, not because he’s the devil. With age cones wisdom.

More younger people are working, and not all get time off to serve on a jury. This may lead to older, wiser jury pools.

My mega corp supported serving on jury duty... Full pay for serving... Lucky I guess.

And I do sort of agree with older/wiser jury pools.

 

[MichaelB]

In Texas, a job can not be used as an excuse. The employer is not required to pay the employee for time off for jury duty.

If people can’t get paid time off for jury duty they are more likely to find an excuse, making it more difficult to find enough jurors. Raising the age ceiling helps resolve that.

 

[Telly]

There are about 15 states (like mine) with no upper age limit for jury duty, so it could be much worse for you (personally, I don't see a problem).

And among the states that do have upper limits, Hawaii, Maine, and South Dakota use 80 as the cutoff.

Well, personally, I do. And Texas is one of the most unhealthy states in the nation. As far as traffic and insane drivers, we're shooting for number 1! Yeah, shooting too. Road Rage is rampant.

 

[MuirWannabe]

Oh brother. As a Texan this seems much ado about nothing. Get a doctors note if you wish, if you really have a problem complying. Of the concerns today, this can’t be in the top 100,000.

 

[Exchme]

I sat on several juries. If you serve on a jury, one of the most interesting things to do is hang around afterwards. The lawyers want to hear from you as to what swayed you and you get to hear about all the stuff that was kept out of the trial.

The biggest was a strong-arm robbery, where the victim didn't speak English but searched out and found a Good Samaritan and they flagged down a cop. The cop took them and cruised around - the perps were still hanging out in the area. The defense's main strategy seemed to be to try to slip in that the victim wasn't here legally, he kept getting objected to. The defendant had a very distinctive appearance and was still wearing the clothes the victim described to the policeman, so we weren't worried about a mis-identification. We found the defendant guilty and afterwards, we heard this was his third time, which in Texas meant a really long sentence. Felt good about our findings.

I sat on a civil trial where a housing developer got ripped off by a contractor who graded the streets wrong and so put the sewer openings in the wrong place. The Developer then hired Contractor #2 and told him to do what it takes to fix it, so he did. Contractor #2 was suing the Developer as the Developer never paid and Contractor #2 lost his entire business as a result.

The Developer claimed Contractor #2 was lying and didn't do any meaningful work. We found for Contractor #2, awarded the full amount plus attorney's fees.

We found out after the trial that there had already been a trial where the Developer sued the first contractor's insurance company and had already been paid the full amount but wanted to keep the money for himself. The kicker was that the star witness in that other trial was Contractor #2, who the Developer was now calling a liar. Felt really good about what we did.

I sat on a drunk driving trial. The defendant was a motorcyclist that was driving fast and recklessly. Halfway through the trial, there was testimony that the senior cop said to the junior, "He's not drunk, he's just stupid". The trial stopped, we were shuttled out, and about half an our later, we were dismissed, all we heard was that "there was a problem with the evidence". I'm sure the problem was that the police didn't think the driver was drunk.

The other one I sat through was a civil trial where a lady claimed to have slipped on a wet spot at a grocery store. She had done the whole chiropractor/back brace thing and was claiming she was still in great pain. She claimed that she slipped, did a forward flip and landed on her bottom. To be kind, this lady was not built like a gymnast, so we didn't believe her story and gave her nothing.

Afterwards, in talking with the defense attorney, he thought we would put great weight on a fraudulent unemployment claim she had made, but for me, it never got that far, her story was physically impossible for her to have achieved. It also came out that the store had offered to take care of the hospital bill on the day of the "fall", but she didn't want that, seems she was hunting a payday from the start. Again felt like we got it right.

I always found the experience interesting and certainly very different from our normal routine. I encourage folks to take part.

 

[Telly]

Oh brother. As a Texan this seems much ado about nothing. Get a doctors note if you wish, if you really have a problem complying. Of the concerns today, this can’t be in the top 100,000.

Ah well, that's just your opinion. You seemed to have missed my personal concern.

 

[athena53]

In Texas, a job cannot be used as an excuse. The employer is not required to pay the employee for time off for jury duty.

I was fortunate that my employers paid for jury duty (and let me keep the pittance I was paid) but plenty of people are gig workers or otherwise self-employed. Jury duty costs an Uber driver or a realtor real money in terms of lost income.

There have been times I've seen in which someone shows up but explains to the judge why serving would present an extreme difficulty (one had no car and needed two bus changes to get there) and the judge excused them. The most dramatic was my new boss, circa 1983- he'd just joined the company and was exactly the kind of good, thoughtful guy you'd want on a jury and he was called when they were empaneling a jury for an ugly trial alleging child abuse at a daycare center. With the help of our legal staff he wrote a letter to the judge explaining that he'd certainly serve if called but that he'd be trying to manage our department at the same time and was unsure that he could give both the trial and the job the attention they required. He was excused.

 

[braumeister]

I was fortunate that my employers paid for jury duty (and let me keep the pittance I was paid)

I was at a microcorp a long time ago and although they paid my regular salary during my jury time they made me give them the $5/day I got for serving.
That $5 didn't even cover my parking in the cheapest lot near the courthouse, so I thought it was a bit unfair but still grateful for the salary.

 

[lucky penny]

In FL you can exempt at 70, but the pay is silly. $15 per day the first 3, $30 per day after that. Barely covers gas and a vending machine lunch.

In NY there's no upper age limit & the daily pay is $40. As MichaelB said, many older people like doing it because it gets them out of the house & they get paid!

I'm an attorney & most of the times never made it out of voir dire, probably because of my employment. Sometimes, especially if the case looks interesting, it can be a little deflating not to be picked, but when you see the jurors selected you can usually tell what the lawyers were looking for: sometimes smart ones, sometimes the opposite. I was actually selected twice for juries; both were criminal cases that took several days & went to a verdict; in one case the jury had 2 lawyers! Both experiences were memorable.

I'm probably due to be called again soon & will gladly do it as long as I'm able to. I think it would be insulting & silly to be automatically exempted because I'm over 70.

 

[Lewis Clark]

I know a few people who are fascinated by the law and would love to serve on juries regularly. But they have never been allowed to volunteer.

 

[MissMolly]

Well, be glad you don't live in Kentucky. We have no upper age limit at all.

 

[Texas Proud]

Ah well, that's just your opinion. You seemed to have missed my personal concern.

I do not think we are missing it... just that we do not agree with it...


Sounds a bit like 'GET OFF MY LAWN'....


But, to each their own... I know that I am concerned about things that others are not...

 

[Out of Steam]

I'm an attorney & most of the times never made it out of voir dire, probably because of my employment.

Because of experiences working in retail in 1970s NYC (hold-ups, fights), I've never made it out of voir dire, and wouldn't ever expect to be assigned to a criminal case.

Last time I received a summons I requested an ADA accommodation (with medical advice) because of limited ability to remain sitting and attentive. It's mostly an "I told you so" thing if a judge complains that I am squirmy or appear distracted. I'm not unwilling to be on a jury.

I wasn't called on that day, but remain eligible.

 

[braumeister]

I asked Bard "What age was the oldest person who served on a jury?"

The oldest person to serve on a jury in the United States was Albert Viertel, who was 94 years old when he served on a federal jury in Los Angeles, California, in 2011. Viertel was a retired engineer and Holocaust survivor who had lived through World War II and escaped from Nazi Germany. He was known for his wisdom and compassion, and he was eager to serve on the jury to help uphold justice.

Viertel's service on the jury was an inspiration to many, and it showed that people of all ages can make valuable contributions to their communities. He was a true patriot and a role model for us all.

There are no age limits for jury service in the United States, but people over the age of 70 may be excused from service if they request it. However, many older people choose to serve on juries, and they bring a wealth of life experience and wisdom to the courtroom.

 

[ls99]

Maybe 20 years ago, the only time called for jury duty, during selection, the judge asked if anyone had legal training. I stood up and asked the judge to define legal training. While the judge was explaining, both lawyers looked at me and crossed my name off. IMHO 2 semesters of business law does not count as legal training. But the question was fun.
Now closing in on 76, PA's 75yo rule gets me off the hook. BTW, parking near the court house cost more than jury pay, which is a big fat Zero.

 

[jollystomper]

I have only been assigned to jury duty twice in my lifetime. In our state you call in the night before to find out if the group you are assigned to has to show up in court, or as excused the rest of the week. Both times I never had to go in, was was excused for the rest of the week by Tuesday night.

I would not have a problem serving on jury duty at any age. What are the odds, anyway? One is more likely to to get the flu or covid than serve on a jury, so I focus on the relative odds of things .

 

[Car-Guy]

I have only been assigned to jury duty twice in my lifetime. In our state you call in the night before to find out if the group you are assigned to has to show up in court, or as excused the rest of the week. Both times I never had to go in, was was excused for the rest of the week by Tuesday night.

I would not have a problem serving on jury duty at any age. What are the odds, anyway? One is more likely to to get the flu or covid than serve on a jury, so I focus on the relative odds of things .

When you live in a county with less than 20,000 people (and far less eligible adults for jury duty) the odds go up. Of course we probably have a lot fewer trials too.

 

[audreyh1]

I was called to a grand jury at the beginning of this year. Fortunately I was the last one in the group for 2nd round. It would not have been particularly onerous - 3/4 of 1 day a week for 2 months, but it’s a long way to the county courthouse with interstate construction so a real pain of a commute.

I had hoped DH could blow off summons in 2 years.

If the federal opt out age is still 70 at least that’s something.

We’ve each had several summons in the last 2 decades, county as well as federal.

PS: this can also be explained by overall aging population.

 

[jollystomper]

When you live in a county with less than 20,000 people (and far less eligible adults for jury duty) the odds go up.

I suspect, though, that in a lower population county, there are going to be fewer incidents that require juries, so that as to be factored into the odds as well.

 

[Car-Guy]

Yep, I was editing my post saying the same thing when your posted this.

 

[Texas Proud]

Maybe 20 years ago, the only time called for jury duty, during selection, the judge asked if anyone had legal training. I stood up and asked the judge to define legal training. While the judge was explaining, both lawyers looked at me and crossed my name off. IMHO 2 semesters of business law does not count as legal training. But the question was fun.
Now closing in on 76, PA's 75yo rule gets me off the hook. BTW, parking near the court house cost more than jury pay, which is a big fat Zero.

In Houston you get free parking at a garage they built for jurors... or as mentioned before free rides on the bus...

 

[Texas Proud]

When you live in a county with less than 20,000 people (and far less eligible adults for jury duty) the odds go up. Of course we probably have a lot fewer trials too.

I forget the number but it was something like 5,000 to 6,000 felonies in Harris County (Houston) per year...


On my grand jury stint we had between 75 to 150 cases a day... twice a week... with 5 grand juries going at the same time...


That does not include the misdemeanor cases as they do not go to the grand jury...

 

[Car-Guy]

I forget the number but it was something like 5,000 to 6,000 felonies in Harris County (Houston) per year...

I would have guessed a lot more.... That's only ~16 a day... Maybe you dropped a zero? Or maybe that's just the ones they caught? Anyway, one of the reasons I moved out of Houston.

 

[Texas Proud]

I would have guessed a lot more.... That's only ~16 a day... Maybe you dropped a zero? Or maybe that's just the ones they caught? Anyway, one of the reasons I moved out of Houston.

Yea, it does seem kinda low... but that is what I remember them saying..


Tried to look it up but could not find a number... however I did find one on misdemeanors... I cannot see felonies larger than this...





The report also found that the number of misdemeanor cases filed in Harris County decreased from 60,727 per year in 2015 to 47,750 in 2022 — a drop of more than 21%. Additionally, the number of people being arrested for misdemeanor offenses has decreased by about 20% over the last seven years.

 

[lucky penny]

Maybe 20 years ago, the only time called for jury duty, during selection, the judge asked if anyone had legal training. I stood up and asked the judge to define legal training. While the judge was explaining, both lawyers looked at me and crossed my name off. IMHO 2 semesters of business law does not count as legal training. But the question was fun. Now closing in on 76, PA's 75yo rule gets me off the hook. BTW, parking near the court house cost more than jury pay, which is a big fat Zero.

Not zero.

§ 4561(a) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes provides: "A person summoned to serve as a juror shall receive compensation at the rate of $9 a day for the first three days in any calendar year he shall be required to report for service and $25 a day for each day thereafter in such calendar year that such person is required to report. In addition, persons so summoned shall be paid a travel allowance at the rate of 17¢ per mile circular except that no travel allowance shall be paid in the first judicial district."