Opinion: The moment I realized we’re saving too much for retirement

[flyingaway]

I think the author is right. After saving $55 millions, he wrote a book to tell people to enjoy life, not to save more money.

I am doing better than he does, I don't even bother to write a book or article (to make more money) in retirement, even I don't have as much as 10% of his money.

 

[jollystomper]

I read the article. The two quotes that stood out to me:

That’s the big error people make in planning for retirement: They’re focusing on the money, without nearly enough thought to the activities that they will actually be doing.

You don’t retire on your money — you retire on your memories! It was then that I realized I’d better create some meaningful memories now, and I’ve been doing that ever since.

Both of these make sense to me. It has become clear to me, at this stage, that our active lifestyle is not going to cause us to run out of money, and that our best memories involve physical pursuits that will become more challenging over time as we age. For that reason, that is our focus today. DW fracturing her ankle in July, and just now getting her walking and swimming legs back, served as another wake up call for us about our future. Our best memories are less the new highs our portfolio may be hitting, and more the activities we enjoy engaging in .

 

[2HOTinPHX]

So glad I finally read this thread. Based on the title I wasn't going to because I thought it was going to be another I saved 5 million should I.....

Great discussion with lots of good points to think about as we get ready to enter our longest vacation ever.

You people rock!!!!!!

 

[Delawaredave5]

People only look at information that supports their initial position/desire.

There's plenty of both "America save more" and "America save less" articles.

You and me will only endorse "save more" Because we're right.....

Everyone else ? Not my problem...

 

[old medic]

FWIW, I'm in bed sick with the flu while the rest of the family is celebrating Thanksgiving. I may just be a bit testy.

Well 1st off, get better... Rest and fluids, But as a PCP you already know that.

After reading the Article and comments here.... I've come to a good compromise. I'm gonna write a retirement book explaining how to spend your way into wealth.... maybe then I'LL have $55M

 

[donheff]

LOL. Yeah, we do revisit this topic quite a bit but I only just noticed that one aspect of the topic irritates me like work did. Jollystomper pointed out a quote:

That’s the big error people make in planning for retirement: They’re focusing on the money, without nearly enough thought to the activities that they will actually be doing

I read all those books about getting a life, planning your retirement out, know what you will do, and on and on. I always found it to be a king-sized PITA, just like the equivalent at work. Fifty years ago, I had to do my first analysis of "where do you see yourself in five years." "If you don't know where you are going, you won't know when you get there." Strategic plans out the yin yang. This stuff was endless. I hated it, and the irony is I was a champ at all that. Sure, we needed goals at work, but the personal stuff always felt like BS to me. None of it really panned out or helped me get anywhere. Life and work were much more random that any of that. Man plans, and God laughs.

When I retired, I breathed free. No more planning, just experiencing. I don't need no stinking lists. I don't need a roadmap. I don't want to find my passion. And I don't want responsibilities.

YMMV. You may be completely different. You may thrive on carefully thought-out plans. As for me, I travel, I ride, I read, and I constantly wander down rabbit holes of new interests that keep me endlessly entertained. Sooner or later, end of life issues will jam all that to a halt for all of us. Let's hope we go over a cliff and not tumble down a rocky slope. And thank God, I saved enough to get to the cliff in comfort.

 

[target2019]

I suppose if you have enough, or more than enough, you also have ample free time to read the articles and books that come along.

The book came along before a trip to Europe a couple of years ago. After reading the book I realized I had been a tighwad, had more than enough, and we jumped into the travel experience with grown kids. The memories were well worth the cost.

A year later I could only go for a few hours each day on a less-demanding vacation. So there's another potential lesson.

I took some lessons from the book, assimilated a few of the charts, and moved on with my life.

 

[Midpack]

Some people prefer to travel the world and rack up life experiences. Others prefer the familiarity and comfort of home. Some are more willing to live on the edge financially. Others prefer the security of a fat wallet.

In my book, all of these people are "right" --- for themselves. So I will live out my remaining days in ways that I prefer and others can live out their remaining days in ways they prefer. And each and every one of us can be happy with our choices.

+1. This thread clearly illustrates that in the variety of POVs shared.

If you’re happy YOU are doing it right, if you’re not YOU are doing it wrong - fix it!

 

[Andre1969]

I just glanced through the article and thought this line was interesting...

Some focus on saving a lot of money because, they say, they want to leave a legacy for their children and grandchildren. My book has a whole chapter on the “What about the kids?” question, and my short answer is this: Deliberate planning and intentional living mean giving your kids money when the money has the most impact, which is well before you die.

In my opinion I think, like many things in life, the proper answer is "It depends." You have to know your kids, and how it will affect them. Some kids, it might simply make them more dependent on you. Some may spend it all on hookers and blow. And then there's the issues where some parents give it with strings attached, and if that money isn't utilized in the way they want, it causes problems.

 

[target2019]

"That’s the big error people make in planning for retirement: They’re focusing on the money, without nearly enough thought to the activities that they will actually be doing."

The book mentions having a balanced approach to retirement planning. So, you accumulate enough for your comfort, but also take into account what activities you believe will be most fulfilling. Some of those activities may be less fulfilling for age and health issues.

I interpret this as, "Find your own level of satisfaction throughout life, and don't just look at numbers and charts."

 

[dirtbiker]

My fever broke, and I'm feeling MUCH better. And much less angry about the article. Lol.

I think the part that irked me the most was mentioning not being able to spend all your money before you die. I just can't fathom that being anyone's goal.

And maybe this article, and the book, would be better suited to members of this forum, who are, by and large, adept at saving; rather than the public at large.

We don't live by a budget. We pay ourselves first. Our paychecks get funneled to a variety of investment vehicles before we ever see the money. Then we decide how to spend any left over money after paying the bills. Sometimes we vacation, sometimes we buy new items, sometimes we put extra money back into savings, and sometimes we don't have any additional money left over.

Making time (and money) for vacations has always been important to me, and maybe I look at it as second nature to do those things. Even during my years of schooling, I made time for the occasional vacation to keep me sane. From the discussions here, I see that isn't university the case. I may just be looking at this from a different world view, it appears.

This all being said, his intended audience is the American public, and I think his advice is largely awful for that audience.

 

[athena53]

Some people prefer to travel the world and rack up life experiences. Others prefer the familiarity and comfort of home. Some are more willing to live on the edge financially. Others prefer the security of a fat wallet.

In my book, all of these people are "right" --- for themselves. So I will live out my remaining days in ways that I prefer and others can live out their remaining days in ways they prefer. And each and every one of us can be happy with our choices.

Well, IMO they're "right" unless they spent themselves into oblivion and end up dependent on taxpayer-supported programs such as Medicaid LTC, subsidized senior housing, etc. because they saved nothing.

Being married to a man 15 years older was a reminder that we don't have forever. DH and I traveled while I was still employed, with some constraints due to my vacation days, making judicious use of loyalty programs. Eventually I could see that he needed more down time, there were some excursions too rigorous for him (he cheerfully hung out in the room when I went) and we needed a hotel room where he had space to relax and public transportation was close by, etc. I don't regret a dime we spent back them- I still have a comfortable retirement. Neither do I regret the almost-$50K I spent on the military boarding school I sent him to for HS. It turned his life around. What good would it have done if he'd inherited that amount at age 60, compounded at 6%/year, if he'd never found direction and motivation?

Balance.

 

[Andre1969]

I think the part that irked me the most was mentioning not being able to spend all your money before you die. I just can't fathom that being anyone's goal.

I always took that as a bit of satire, like when someone says if you plan it right, the check to the undertaker bounces.

I can understand the desire to spend your wealth down as you get older, since you can't take it with you. But I don't think too many people really, truly, want to plan it out to where literally die with zero funds.

 

[athena53]

I can understand the desire to spend your wealth down as you get older, since you can't take it with you. But I don't think too many people really, truly, want to plan it out to where literally die with zero funds.

Totally agreed. I'm far too risk-averse for that. I've always been driven by a fear of ending up old and poor. It appears, thank heaven, I will not have that problem.

 

[ncbill]

I think the part that irked me the most was mentioning not being able to spend all your money before you die. I just can't fathom that being anyone's goal.

I always took that as a bit of satire, like when someone says if you plan it right, the check to the undertaker bounces.

I can understand the desire to spend your wealth down as you get older, since you can't take it with you. But I don't think too many people really, truly, want to plan it out to where literally die with zero funds.

Yep, here you can't open probate w/o a receipt showing the funeral home has been paid.

So if there's anything left (even just a vehicle) someone else would end up paying that bill.

 

[jim584672]

You could turn everything into Immediate Annuities, but then those monthly checks would probably build up, so going out with nothing might be a hard problem.

 

[Gumby]

Well, IMO they're "right" unless they spent themselves into oblivion and end up dependent on taxpayer-supported programs such as Medicaid LTC, subsidized senior housing, etc. because they saved nothing....

Fair enough. I suppose I was implicitly assuming the corollary, which is that your choice should not burden other people.

 

[skyking1]

LOL. Yeah, we do revisit this topic quite a bit but I only just noticed that one aspect of the topic irritates me like work did. Jollystomper pointed out a quote: I read all those books about getting a life, planning your retirement out, know what you will do, and on and on. I always found it to be a king-sized PITA, just like the equivalent at work. Fifty years ago, I had to do my first analysis of "where do you see yourself in five years." "If you don't know where you are going, you won't know when you get there." Strategic plans out the yin yang. This stuff was endless. I hated it, and the irony is I was a champ at all that. Sure, we needed goals at work, but the personal stuff always felt like BS to me. None of it really panned out or helped me get anywhere. Life and work were much more random that any of that. Man plans, and God laughs.

When I retired, I breathed free. No more planning, just experiencing. I don't need no stinking lists. I don't need a roadmap. I don't want to find my passion. And I don't want responsibilities.

YMMV. You may be completely different. You may thrive on carefully thought-out plans. As for me, I travel, I ride, I read, and I constantly wander down rabbit holes of new interests that keep me endlessly entertained. Sooner or later, end of life issues will jam all that to a halt for all of us. Let's hope we go over a cliff and not tumble down a rocky slope. And thank God, I saved enough to get to the cliff in comfort.

I remember planning our first trips to a T, accounting for this and that and overstudying and planning. When I heard about a thing that I missed at a destination it bothered me a bit. Then I got a little better and relaxed.
To heck with all that now.
Now my thinking is "The weather is good over that way for a few days, let's go".
" I really enjoyed https://www.butchartgardens.com/ I can enjoy them again, different time different blooms."

 

[LateToFIRE]

I read the "Die With Zero" book, based on reading about it on this forum. IMO, it was a waste of money - total fluff - can't believe I paid good money for it. Read like one of those "Who Moved My Cheese" type self-help, repetitive drivel mini-books. Take a theme worthy of a short article and turn it into a book. I'll have to try my hand at writing one of those someday.

At any rate, some of the concepts are valid, though fairly obvious. Stuff my DW and friends have been telling me for years like "invest in certain experiences (ex. travel) while you're still able enough to do it" or "don't work yourself into an early grave" blah, blah, blah. Duh! But, as much as anyone can tell you this stuff, it doesn't always sink in especially with someone as thickheaded as I am.

So, I suppose these types of books serve a purpose (other than making their authors richer). My own approach is balance, but that means different things to different folks. I've never much minded working, and working hard, long hours. I probably "balanced" too much towards work. But, work has been play for me too - I really love it, well lets say I love it about 80% of the time. But, those returns have diminished rapidly the past couple years, so now time to pivot. And I never saved actually for the purpose of retirement, silly as that sounds. I just saved and invested to become FI so I could have 100% control over my own life.

Most people would probably say that I over-saved and they'd probably be right. But, how much is enough is as much an emotional question, as a practical one. I have at least recognized that for me, there probably will never be an amount that feels like enough - since I keep raising the bar everytime I reach it. At least I know that and can adjust for it. At any rate, YMMV!

 

[cyber888]

I guess what's 'enough savings' is different for everyone, depending on your expenses.
Since this was my first year of retirement, I was being conservative. Also saved some $ using the Affordable Care Act.
Went to Europe this year using Premium economy seats - good leg room but not lie-flat.
So a few days ago, I decided to buy Business Class tickets for Europe next year to splurge a little.
DW also realized we wont be doing all these long European trips forever. Once we get older, we'll do more domestic trips I suppose.
We have no kids, so that's also a consideration that we don't have to scrimp on what we want.

 

[cyber888]

Good Article Comment Gravel Rider. I agree it's dangerous if people reading it have a savings of $50,000 at 55 years old.

A recommended article came up on my news feed that really made my blood boil. Bill Perkins, net worth $55 million, is telling people to save less for retirement, and spend the money on experiences now.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aol.com/amphtml/opinion-ve-doing-retirement-planning-142751339.html

Like that's the message we need to send out to a nation that is largely unprepared for retirement as it is.

You can see my comments under "Gravel Rider."



FWIW, I'm in bed sick with the flu while the rest of the family is celebrating Thanksgiving. I may just be a bit testy.

 

[RobLJ]

I actually read the article and thought the author made good points--for the 5% or maybe 10% here, who are the folks on Early Retirement. Otherwise, for those who haven't saved for retirement, the idea of experiences is toxic. But for those on here who are withdrawing 1-2% and there are quite a few, although perhaps not as much as you would think percentage wise, it is well worth considering. I think the 1-2% withdrawal folk are well aware that they will probably die with 5-15 million outstanding, and good for them, knowing them, most probably have a plan of what to do with their assets, but there are always those who are afraid to spend.

If they are depriving themselves or their loved ones of experiences, then the article is worthwhile.
I'm going to take ss at 67, not because we need to, but because DW is from the mean streets of Polish Philly (and a Payables Accountant) and my getting money will probably induce her to spend a little more on experiences. After 7 years, my arguments are having an effect, since we hiked Mt Blanc this year and will do the Great Glen Way next year, even though we could afford a lot more. But, hey, this is progress. I agree with her that 1st class tickets are a blow that is hard to justify, so I need help as well. Please help me!

 

[Gumby]

... I agree with her that 1st class tickets are a blow that is hard to justify, so I need help as well. Please help me!

Last year we flew to Egypt and this year we flew to Greece - first/business class both times. Those were the first two times in our lives we did that. It was well worth it.

 

[RobLJ]

Thank you Gumby. I still can't bring myself to pay for 1st class, but it's a life goal.

 

[skyking1]

We did business class for the first time on our last trip. Just like the outside cabin with a balcony on the cruise ship, this will be hard to step back from