Poll: Annuities and retirement

[FinanceDude]

I had no choice but to "purchase" my SS "annuity"...

Maybe Uncle Sam is the "ultimate insurance agent"...............

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

There you see how easy that was.

I quoted you directly from here: http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=11795.msg215358#msg215358

Are you going to claim dementia, multiple personality disorder, direct lying, trolling, or will you become embarrassed and try to delete your account again, not realizing that that doesnt remove all the posts you've made?

Whatta maroon...

 

[Cut-Throat]

Whatta maroon...

Let me help you that. Maroon is a color. A moron is someone that does not know how to spell.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Which one is worse than someone who doesnt get a Bugs Bunny reference?

From the urban dictionary:

1. Maroon

A term of derision often uttered by Bugs Bunny when referring to an interaction with a dopey adversary. It is a mispronunciation of the word "Moron"

"What a Maroon!" "Will ya get a load of this maroon"

Let me help you that.

And let me help YOU with your basic english sentence stuctures. Its clear you're not accepting help on your inabilities to do basic math and simple logic.

 

[FinanceDude]

Which one is worse than someone who doesnt get a Bugs Bunny reference?

From the urban dictionary:

1. Maroon

A term of derision often uttered by Bugs Bunny when referring to an interaction with a dopey adversary. It is a mispronunciation of the word "Moron"

"What a Maroon!" "Will ya get a load of this maroon"

I got it...........helps when you have young kids running around.......... Plus, you probably knw the exact mixture of baby formula and water/soy milk/scotch to keep the baby happy.............

 

[honobob]

Which one is worse than someone who doesnt get a Bugs Bunny reference?



"What a Maroon!" "Will ya get a load of this maroon"

Would the proper retort be "Kill da wabbit,,,kill da wabbit!"?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

The proper retort sure as **** isnt claiming you didnt say something or that a quote was fabricated when evidence to the contrary is...well...evident!

To follow that up with a fallacious attempt to correct my spelling, and using a syntactically incorrect sentence in the process?

Priceless.

I dont think he's hunting for wabbits. I think he's been eating the smartpills. And they aint working.

 

[FinanceDude]

The proper retort sure as **** isnt claiming you didnt say something or that a quote was fabricated when evidence to the contrary is...well...evident!

To follow that up with a fallacious attempt to correct my spelling, and using a syntactically incorrect sentence in the process?

Priceless.

I dont think he's hunting for wabbits. I think he's been eating the smartpills. And they aint working.

From an altruistic point of view, I find these posts whimsically fascinating, and I plan on re-reading Dianetics tonight.................

 

[Empty Pockets]

With the full knowledge I'll likely get beat up, I posted yes. I have a significant portion of my net worth in a Variable Annuity, I have for years. And guess what, I bought it from Financial Planner It is set up and monitored, but we haven't had to change funds but a couple times over the years. We rebalance semi-annually.

Does it have costs ? Hell yes, I know there's no free lunch, but over the 9 years I've had it the funds inside perform near or above their benchmarks even after expenses. It's 100% actively managed equity funds and will be until we're approaching the distribution years.

I like the tax deferred status and the options (no 1099's) & safety features for drawing the money out of there when I need it. If I fall off a cliff, I'd rather have my wife dealing with my financial planner and the investments we have in place. Every single invesment I have in place is earmarked for a future purpose, and his firm knows what it is.

Annuities have one sole purpose, retirement income. That is what I'm using this fund for, nothing else. I know that it will be taxable when I draw it out, but it will be my only taxable income at that time. Combining it with Roth withdrawals I'm looking forward to it. If you know what you're buying and want one, good for you. They may be abused by some sales people and sold to the wrong people at the wrong time and that is where I think they get their bad rap.

Ric Edleman & Ben Stein have written some excellent material on annuities for those interested. If you're not interested, please don't throw bricks at me. You don't have to read their stuff either, but they've put more than a little research into this and agree they're great when used appropriately.

I agree with Finance Dude, everyone loves Pensions IF their employer buys them, a lot of people don't like them if you buy them yourself. Here's an example, I should have over $2,000,000 in my annuity when I reach 59.5. At 4% withdrawal that will be $80,000 a year. If that was provided by an employer everyone would say, that's one hell of a pension !! But, since I set it up myself with a Variable Annuity some say, what a dummy.

I'm not trying to convince anyone who doesn't want an annuity to go out and get one, but for the rest of us, they can possible be a great alternative.

 

[FinanceDude]

With the full knowledge I'll likely get beat up, I posted yes. I have a significant portion of my net worth in a VUL, I have for years. And guess what, I bought it from Financial Planner It is set up and monitored, but we haven't had to change funds but a couple times over the years. We rebalance semi-annually.

Does it have costs ? Hell yes, I know there's no free lunch, but over the 9 years I've had it the funds inside perform near or above their benchmarks even after expenses. It's 100% actively managed equity funds and will be until we're approaching the distribution years.

I like the tax deferred status and the options (no 1099's) & safety features for drawing the money out of there when I need it. If I fall off a cliff, I'd rather have my wife dealing with my financial planner and the investments we have in place. Every single invesment I have in place is earmarked for a future purpose, and his firm knows what it is.

Annuities have one sole purpose, retirement income. That is what I'm using this fund for, nothing else. I know that it will be taxable when I draw it out, but it will be my only taxable income at that time. Combining it with Roth withdrawals I'm looking forward to it. If you know what you're buying and want one, good for you. They may be abused by some sales people and sold to the wrong people at the wrong time and that is where I think they get their bad rap.

Ric Edleman & Ben Stein have written some excellent material on annuities for those interested. If you're not interested, please don't throw bricks at me. You don't have to read their stuff either, but they've put more than a little research into this and agree they're great when used appropriately.

I agree with Finance Dude, everyone loves Pensions IF their employer buys them, a lot of people don't like them if you buy them yourself. Here's an example, I should have over $2,000,000 in my annuity when I reach 59.5. At 4% withdrawal that will be $80,000 a year. If that was provided by an employer everyone would say, that's one hell of a pension !! But, since I set it up myself with a Variable Annuity some say, what a dummy.

I'm not trying to convince anyone who doesn't want an annuity to go out and get one, but for the rest of us, they can possible be a great alternative.

Just curious.........why VUL onstead of VA? The loan provision?

 

[Empty Pockets]

Typo, sorry about that.

 

[rs0460a]

I'm not trying to convince anyone who doesn't want an annuity to go out and get one, but for the rest of us, they can possible be a great alternative.

That's the problem I have with the responses on this board (and more specifically on this thread). It seems that everybody has the "correct answer" (and you're a moron if you don't agree).

When you walk into a car dealership, you expect them to have more than one model, one color, one set of options, etc. Everybody's needs are different, and the dealer is expected to offer a model that will fit your needs.

For me (being 60'ish), with a goal of conserving my retirement portfolio (rather than building it), an instant annuity (not defered, and not bought at age 80+) gives me/DW the ability to "take some cash" off the table (20%). That still leaves us with 80% of our joint portfolio to manage, and forecast through various tools (including FireCalc) to meet at a 100% level (actually, beyond that) of our goal.

That's not being foolish. The model works for me/DW. It's our money, our future, our decision. What works in "our world" (with less time on this earth than say a person a generation younger) may not work in theirs.

When I/DW started saving/investing for retirement in our early 30's, there were no 401K's, there were no IRA's, there were only company supplied retirement (e.g. annuity) plans.

The world changes, your requirements change, nothing remains the same.

Get over your indivudial "bias" in your thinking. I may be an "old fart" on this board, but I believe I'm more flexible in my thoughts than a lot of the "young folk" who's "words of wisdom" I read...

- Ron

 

[donheff]

As long as we are flogging the annuity issue again I have a question for the cognoscenti about SPIAs, how sensitive are they to current interest rates?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Gee Rondy...seems to me that all the discussions regarding this topic have included an awful lot of people regularly saying that they're right for some people, its just that all the facts need to be presented.

And the only people called 'morons' are the ones who claim to have data and formulas that they actually dont have.

But in a pattern I see emerging, you seem to form interesting but often incorrect opinions with generally limited data. It'd help if you actually informed yourself on the matters at hand before making accusatory statements.

By poll, the vast majority of users here support use of annuities as part of their asset allocation, providing the numbers make sense.

 

[brewer12345]

As long as we are flogging the annuity issue again I have a question for the cognoscenti about SPIAs, how sensitive are they to current interest rates?

Very. SPIAs are effectively a pertpetuity from the perspective of the annuitant, so they have very long duration (high sensitivity to rate changes). Search for a formula for perpetuity duration if you care.

 

[renferme]

I take it you don't buy any of that Health Insurance, Auto Insurance, Home Owners Insurance and Life Insurance crap for the same reason either?

Well, I buy health insurance, auto ins., home owners insurance,
but, I still realize that all insurance companies are, in fact, out to fleece the consumer.
Also, out to fleece us are lawyers, doctors, dentists, hospitals, phone companies,
utility companies, politicians, school boards, gasoline companies, auto companies,
auto dealers, home improvement companies, teachers and their unions, and just about everyone I can think of.
Every one and every company is out to get the most they can from us; they screw us and we have to take it most of the time.
I just told Verizon to go to H#LL; I'm switching companies.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Which business do youscrew people inwork in ?

 

[Cut-Throat]

Gee Rondy...seems to me that all the discussions regarding this topic have included an awful lot of people regularly saying that they're right for some people, its just that all the facts need to be presented.

And the only people called 'morons' are the ones who claim to have data and formulas that they actually dont have.

But in a pattern I see emerging, you seem to form interesting but often incorrect opinions with generally limited data. It'd help if you actually informed yourself on the matters at hand before making accusatory statements.

By poll, the vast majority of users here support use of annuities as part of their asset allocation, providing the numbers make sense.

Cool it CFB! - You don't need to particpate in these annuity discussions because you've already got your mind made up. Move along to another topic.

First warning!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Oh i'm sorry, is this in your official capacity?

Ronda's been trolling me for some time now, making snippy comments that arent particularly accurate or called for. And you're just grumpy because you got caught with your pants down.

Now, if you were an actual moderator, I'd take you more seriously. Just cant do it with a guy who deletes his own account without really understanding the implications.

As far as your warning, how about you snack on some of my smartpills?

Then think twice before posting while intoxicated...

 

[chinaco]

Well, all of you have certainly given me some food for thought.

I do believe that annuities are a valid mechanism for retirement income. I do not believe that they are intended as an investment, rather to generate an income and to reduce most risks (but not all risks).


Does an annuity make sense for DW and I Not sure yet. I will continue to study my options.

 

[Martha]

Let us keep the discussion polite please everyone. We are talking about annuities after all. Not religion. Not politics.

And yes, moderators wear two hats. We participate in discussions as well as occasionally moderate them. We have even had to moderate each other on rare occasions. Heck, I edited Nords once and banned myself for a couple of days.

 

[FinanceDude]

Glad I iddn't start the thread...............

 

[Bikerdude]

I had no choice but to "purchase" my SS "annuity"...

And I had no choice on my pension. I'd rather have the money on both.

 

[mb]

I invested in a variable annuity from Vanguard. The reasons follow:

- I wanted exposure to REITs
- Because of my tax bracket it was important that it was in a tax deferred account
- I did not have access to a REIT fund in my 401k
- There wasn't enough money in the IRAs and they were designated for other investments

I decided that a VA was the only option that made sense and that the solution was to invest in Vanguard's VA REIT fund. I think that the ER is about 0.6% including the insurance and of course there isn't a load.

This was about four years ago. I have made a lot of money on it in those four years.

DWs 401k now has a REIT fund so I'm no longer putting new money into the VA but given the same situation I think that I would do the same thing again.

If anybody has a better idea please let me know?

MB

 

[2B]

Cool it CFB! - You don't need to particpate in these annuity discussions because you've already got your mind made up. Move along to another topic.

First warning!

Now CFB has had his share of obnoxious posts but I didn't see any problem with this one. I made far stronger posts earlier in this same thread. Do I get special dispensation since I am the self-proclaimed "anti-annuity troll?"

I will admit I have fought using the term "moron" myself in replying to some posts. Some were so "different from my opinion" I declined to reply because there was no way I could have avoided the term.

I just hope that those wanting to purchase annuities have enough assets where it will not seriously limit their financial life like it did my father and in-laws. If the numbers really make sense, I would consider buying an annuity myself but I have never seen the case where they really did. So until I do I'll repeat a far earlier post and proclaim again that I still consider buying an annuity a sign of a cognitive disorder.