Poll - What are Your Paper Losses?

[slimm]

There's no choice for "have not looked yet"!!!

Yup, I received my UBS portfolio statement last week....
it is still sitting on my desk....can't bear to open it....so I don't/won't!
My parents are "down" 1 mil....same for my bro & SIL....
think I'll saddle a horse and take a nice looooong ride....


Gosh, this is really tough stuff, but I have so much to be thankful for -
a wonderful family, amazing friendships, and a great community....and the sense to have bailed on California 8 years ago....my friends on the Left Coast are suffering horribly.

 

[Grep]

I've got a lot to be thankful for too... like all the well-meaning advice and encouragement I got here (indirectly) to get into the market instead of standing on the sidelines like I was.

Darn you all!!! ;-)

 

[slimm]

142 people reporting a loss, collectively losses are in the $40-67M range so far (and I think most people didn't include equity loss in their home). That's impressive...

To put things into perspective:
On average, that's at least a $280K loss per respondent reporting a loss. So our average loss is at least thrice the median net worth of American households ($90K as reported BEFORE the housing and market bust). It means that, on average, we are still far wealthier than the average American, and therefore far, far wealthier than the vast majority of people in the world.

Collectively, we probably would still have enough money to buy a small country... I've heard Iceland is going bankrupt so we could get a good deal!

Wow, I feel sooooo much better....thanks!
Now where is that bottle of Laphroig.....and why on earth did I send my fiance' packing...yeah, that tall, cute guy who drove a Porsche and owned an oil company......oooooops

 

[Independent]

142 people reporting a loss, collectively losses are in the $40-67M range so far (and I think most people didn't include equity loss in their home). That's impressive...

To put things into perspective:
On average, that's at least a $280K loss per respondent reporting a loss. So our average loss is at least thrice the median net worth of American households ($90K as reported BEFORE the housing and market bust). It means that, on average, we are still far wealthier than the average American, and therefore far, far wealthier than the vast majority of people in the world.

Collectively, we probably would still have enough money to buy a small country... I've heard Iceland is going bankrupt so we could get a good deal!

Good Post.

 

[Grep]

FIREdreamer,

Buying Iceland with our remaining cash sounds like a great idea! In honor of your proposal, I suggest we change the name to "FIREland."

Cheers.

 

[CuppaJoe]

If the dollar becomes worthless, we will all have much worse things to worry about...
I'm thinking of that lawless scene in Gone With the Wind when they were escaping from Atlanta.


...
~

I'm sure I'm totally unprepared because I don't have a jewel behind a glass eye. What was the movie? "Exodus" where Peter Ustinov pulled out a jewel to get passage onto a ship?

 

[CuppaJoe]

There's no choice for "have not looked yet"!!!

I won't look until the end of the month numbers are in.

But I can tell you this: I'll be richer then for having left the world of work behind two months ago.

 

[NW-Bound]

FIREdreamer,

Buying Iceland with our remaining cash sounds like a great idea! In honor of your proposal, I suggest we change the name to "FIREland."

Cheers.

It's not farfetched to call it "FIREland". Their geothermal situation is mind-boggling. Scalding steam escapes in so many places that there are restaurants that have kitchen kettles and stoves running off steam coming out from pipes driven into the earth! I was impressed seeing this on TV.

And they have only 270K citizens. Are there enough forum members to overcome them and make them speak English, if they have not done so already? I am too old to learn even Italian or Spanish now, and these are a lot closer to English and French than Icelandic.

Following are some more info (from a Web site) to whet your curiosity. Hmm, what priority do I put Reykjavik on my travel list?

• Iceland has vast amounts of water—because it rains so much. Icelandic water is so clean and pure that it is piped into the city and to the kitchen taps in the home without any treatment (no chlorination needed).
• Urban Icelandic homes do not need a water heater or a furnace for heating. Steam and hot water are piped into the city from natural geysers and hot springs for use in homes and buildings.
• Because of its bountiful water supply and many rivers, Iceland has vast reserves of hydroelectric power. Electricity is so inexpensive that aluminum ore (bauxite) is shipped in to the country, made into aluminum, and the aluminum ingots are shipped out again. (Smelting aluminum requires vast amounts of electricity.)

 

[unclemick]

It's not farfetched to call it "FIREland". Their geothermal situation is mind-boggling. Scalding steam escapes in so many places that there are restaurants that have kitchen kettles and stoves running off steam coming out from pipes driven into the earth! I was impressed seeing this on TV.

And they have only 270K citizens. Are there enough forum members to overcome them and make them speak English, if they have not done so already? I am too old to learn even Italian or Spanish now, and these are a lot closer to English than Icelandic.

Following are some more info to whet your curiosity. Hmm, what priority do I put Reykjavik on my travel list?

• Iceland has vast amounts of water—because it rains so much. Icelandic water is so clean and pure that it is piped into the city and to the kitchen taps in the home without any treatment (no chlorination needed).
• Urban Icelandic homes do not need a water heater or a furnace for heating. Steam and hot water are piped into the city from natural geysers and hot springs for use in homes and buildings.
• Because of its bountiful water supply and many rivers, Iceland has vast reserves of hydroelectric power. Electricity is so inexpensive that aluminum ore (bauxite) is shipped in to the country, made into aluminum, and the aluminum ingots are shipped out again. (Smelting aluminum requires vast amounts of electricity.)

Ya ever watch Nat Geo - the source is volcanic.

I grew up at the foot of Mt Saint Helens in PacNW land. Luckily I moved before the 1980 eruption.

heh heh heh - Kansas City ain't that bad this time of year - even if my portfolio buys less and less BBQ.

 

[FIREd]

Hum, FIREland would indeed be a very appropriate name as pointed out by NW-Bound.

[-]Iceland[/-] FIREland has always been high on my list of places to visit and with the krona imploding, I am sure they'll be happier than ever to accept our greenbacks... It could become a very affordable destination soon. Plus it's only a 4 hour flight from Boston.

 

[Alan]

I'll bet none of you included the paper loss from the decrease in the value of your home (zillow.com). I know I didn't.

I did - no home, so calculation was easy

 

[NW-Bound]

Ya ever watch Nat Geo - the source is volcanic.

I grew up at the foot of Mt Saint Helens in PacNW land. Luckily I moved before the 1980 eruption.

Yes, but there has not been an eruption in recent history (knock on wood).

Hum, FIREland would indeed be a very appropriate name as pointed out by NW-Bound.

[-]Iceland[/-] FIREland has always been high on my list of places to visit and with the krona imploding, I am sure they'll be happier than ever to accept our greenbacks... It could become a very affordable destination soon. Plus it's only a 4 hour flight from Boston.

Being in AZ, and loving to travel to Europe, I always envy people on the East Coast. Tough to relocate there though. Too many family roots here.

 

[NW-Bound]

This post is surely off-topic, but I hope it may spur some responses from others, from whom I will learn something.

I asked people who are 100% in cash what form of cash they keep it in. Shouldn't it be a mix of dollars, euros, Australian, Canadian dollars, etc...? It was really a rhetorical question, mainly to point out that besides inflation, there may be other risks to cash.

I knew the dollar has been rising against other currencies, with the exception of the yen, I think. I looked at foreign currencies from a tourist's viewpoint first, then secondly as a holder of some foreign stocks in ADR form, and just want to see how the exchange rate hurts my foreign stock holdings. I claim ignorance on currency trade, and never attempt to play in the FX market.

Now, what has been the cause of the recent rise of the dollar? The media explains this as the effect of repatriation of US investment abroad. The drop of the Australian & Canadian dollars and the Brazil real has also been blamed on the fact that these countries' economies depend significantly on commodities that they export. As the demand for basic material drops, so do their stock markets and currencies. As for the euro, the early indecision by the member nations to act to shore up their banks also has caused some panic.

My question is that I do not see the above effects as long term. When the dust settles, and China and other smaller countries forge ahead with their industrialization, and develop their own internal market, the commodity exporter countries will resume selling to them, with the US left on the sideline, as a bystander. That is if we continue to consume more than we produce, and fail to attract foreign lender's money to pay for imports.

I like a strong US dollar, so I can travel abroad more. Please tell me what it takes for the US dollar to stay strong or get stronger.

 

[dex]

But I can tell you this: I'll be richer then for having left the world of work behind two months ago.

Very true.

 

[Texarkandy]

.... Please tell me what it takes for the US dollar to stay strong or get stronger.

Apparently you weren't listening when Dr Paul was speaking?

 

[NW-Bound]

Ron Paul? No, but I kind of know what he would be saying, which would be too close to my own viewpoint. I'd like to hear something different, you know, for the enquiring mind. I want to hear economic discussions, not political ones. But perhaps the two are twins joined at the hip. Sigh...

PS. This is a nice and fun thread so far. Please, please do not move it to the soapbox, moderators. I'll stop.

 

[NW-Bound]

You've been watching the stock price over the last year, right? Is there likely to be a better time to buy than this morning?
...

Frankly my biggest concern is that all of these exciting & stimulating equity values will cause the sudden deaths of him, Munger, or Simpson. I can only imagine how the markets would react to the news.

Other than an occasional price check, and knowing about what Buffet is up to as reported by the media, I do not follow Berkshire's fundamentals as closely as a share owner would. It is true that his age is a concern.

Just now, I was tempted to go for 1 A share this morning. Seriously. I usually do not make such a big lumpsump trade. But then I reminded myself that Berkshire has never paid dividends. Is that correct? What is Buffet's reason? Could have researched it myself, but I am getting lazy, and want spoon-fed answer. Please enlighten...

PS. BRK opened around 108,000. Waiting for Nords' answer... Dropping to 105,000. Hmm. Do daytraders use BRK too? At $100K+ a share? Wish I have that kind of money!

 

[Texarkandy]

Ron Paul? No, but I kind of know what he would be saying, which would be too close to my own viewpoint. I'd like to hear something different, you know, for the enquiring mind. I want to hear economic discussions, not political ones. But perhaps the two are twins joined at the hip. Sigh...

PS. This is a nice and fun thread so far. Please, please do not move it to the soapbox, moderators. I'll stop.

My answer was a serious economic answer to the question you posed - (tounge in cheek though it was)

In lieu of a lengthy written post giving my answer to your question I was just using "RP" as a convenient placeholder for those particular economic ideas & the concept of a limited noninterventionist central government that doesn't try to influence social behavior by interfering in the marketplace - only sets guidelines & enforces contracts.

IMO, the US Dollar would be where everybody would want to be.

 

[Delawaredave5]

Strange how I like this poll- misery does love company.

I agree. Interesting that 23% are down over $500K (which is expected, as I understand makeup of board).

I run into people every day who say "I sold everything last year" - which I seriously doubt - I think people have "mental defenses" - whatever works....

My neighbor always tells me about his winners - and seems there's only winners...

 

[Spanky]

I run into people every day who say "I sold everything last year"

It's funny that you mentioned it -- my older brother told me that he had taken all his money out of the market last year because he needed the cash to fund his new business.

 

[DblDoc]

I just got bumped down a category!

And have crossed the same 6 figure milestone for the 5th time...

DD

 

[NW-Bound]

BRK opened around 108,000. Waiting for Nords' answer... Dropping to 105,000.

Well, Nords is too busy or did not see this to answer. So, I venture one of my own. Instead of paying out dividends, Buffet wants to keep loads of money on hand to buy more stocks during downturns like this. With $40B+ of cash, he can go shopping, while other billionaires around him are folding...

Darn, BRK A shares go up to 110K+ today.

Perhaps A shares are too rich for a pauper like me. In lean times, I could live for 2 years off that single share. It's better to DCA into pedestrian B shares then... I can sell a smaller piece here or there to convert to food as needed.

 

[Nords]

.

 

[Nords]

But then I reminded myself that Berkshire has never paid dividends. Is that correct? What is Buffet's reason? Could have researched it myself, but I am getting lazy, and want spoon-fed answer. Please enlighten...
PS. BRK opened around 108,000. Waiting for Nords' answer... Dropping to 105,000. Hmm. Do daytraders use BRK too? At $100K+ a share? Wish I have that kind of money!

Sorry, I don't read every thread every day, but I respond faster to PMs.

Berkshire Hathaway paid a 10-cent dividend in the 1960s. Just once. Buffett immediately regretted doing so and swore to never repeat the mistake.

Companies generally pay dividends to impose a measure of fiscal prudence on their execs. Since Buffett feels he's better at fiscal prudence than anyone else in the world, he sees no reason to hamstring the growth of his capital by giving it back to shareholders.

In my opinion neither the "A" nor the "B" shares have enough liquidity for daytraders to beat the spread. It's too easy for a marketmaker to start scalping. But share volume has tripled over the last decade and liquidity is rising, so I suppose someone might be trying it.

We hold "B" shares. Our ER portfolio is too small to rebalance with "A" shares...

 

[NW-Bound]

Thx for the reply, Nords.

I was really ready to click on buy, as I paused to write the above posts. Have not bought yet.

But no matter what the reason(s), Buffet's record talks for itself. I would do a lot better sending Buffet my money than fooling around myself all these years, and end up with less. Anyway, my owning of some A shares would be more for bragging rights, and not practical. B shares I will look to buy, perhaps soon.

But if you give it all to Buffet, then what fun with the market do you have?