Refrigerator longevity

[ksr]

I am embarrassed to admit this, but my Kenmore refrigerator is original to the house, making it 37 years old. I bought the house when it was 7 years old and for some reason I can't really recall had the icemaker disconnected.

I am getting ready to do a partial kitchen remodel and will replace the appliances then (the oven is 31 years old). I almost hate to replace that refrigerator - it might outlast a new one!

 

[Argus]

We "had" a high-end LG microwave. Could do anything you ever wanted to do with a microwave. The second time using it, the electronic control system burned out...

LG replaced it, which we gave to a friend. What bothered us most was LG wouldn't take the burned out machine back to find out what went wrong OR recycle it. They suggested tossing it in the trash.

Other than that our previous refrigerator, GE, was well over 40 years old (left from previous home owner) and kept on ticking. Our energy audit said it should be replaced because it was an electricity hog. Just replaced it as part of a kitchen renovation.

 

[mpeirce]

We "had" a high-end LG microwave. Could do anything you ever wanted to do with a microwave. The second time using it, the electronic control system burned out...

We’ve had microwave ovens die after a few years, repeatedly.

My DW likes having wall ovens - a microwave oven on top, a “regular” oven below, then a warming drawer. Works well for her and it looks very nice.

So when we were doing the kitchen in the lake house, our contractor suggested putting in a “regular” microwave oven with a trim kit. It looks like the matching built in one and is cheaper - and cheaper to replace in the future if (or really when) the microwave oven dies.

It looks something like this (not ours)

 

[Koolau]

We’ve had microwave ovens die after a few years, repeatedly.

My DW likes having wall ovens - a microwave oven on top, a “regular” oven below, then a warming drawer. Works well for her and it looks very nice.

So when we were doing the kitchen in the lake house, our contractor suggested putting in a “regular” microwave oven with a trim kit. It looks like the matching built in one and is cheaper - and cheaper to replace in the future if (or really when) the microwave oven dies.

It looks something like this (not ours)

Yeah, I always wondered what folks did when their built in (combined) microwave ovens bit the dust. We never had a MW last more than about 10 years, so we never went "built-in" when we did our various kitchen remodels. Countertop units were cheap and it was easy to carry them to the dumpster when they gave out. Making a MW "look" built in is the way to go. If we ever rehab a kitchen again, I'm keeping this as a mental note. Thanks for the idea and pics.

 

[Argus]

We bought an inexpensive countertop MW as a replacement. We realized that we really don't use the MW for more than reheating or melting. So as part of kitchen remodel, the MW is inside a cabinet that sits atop the counter and extends to the ceiling and has pocket doors installed so they're out of the way when we use the MW.

Word of advice for anyone thinking about doing this, be sure to understand the interior dimensions of the cabinet with the doors closed to be sure the MW fits. We were lucky that ours did. Like a glove. A very tight glove...

 

[ncbill]

It may be true that the old machines last a whole lot longer, but the electricity cost for them must be pretty high. A friend of mine had an old greenish yellow fridge (I don't know what decades they made fridges with ugly colors) but she said her monthly electric bill came down by over $20 after replacing ot with a new one.

They'd have to be more than 25 years old to use significantly more power than today's models.

There was a contest in the early 1990s to improve energy efficiency of fridges...goal was to cut annual power consumption in half.

Unsurprisingly the winning design essentially added more insulation.

The fridge I bought in 1995 (technically a 1996 model) was one of the first re-designed ones.

I used to be able to plug its exact model number into the Energystar.gov calculator.

When I did so, checking many times over the years, it said the most energy-efficient equivalent replacement would save me all of $2-$3/month.

So it was a no-brainer to keep my current side-by-side fridge instead of paying $1,000+ to replace it.

 

[Koolau]

They'd have to be more than 25 years old to use significantly more power than today's models.

There was a contest in the early 1990s to improve energy efficiency of fridges...goal was to cut annual power consumption in half.

Unsurprisingly the winning design essentially added more insulation.

The fridge I bought in 1995 (technically a 1996 model) was one of the first re-designed ones.

I used to be able to plug its exact model number into the Energystar.gov calculator.

When I did so, checking many times over the years, it said the most energy-efficient equivalent replacement would save me all of $2-$3/month.

So it was a no-brainer to keep my current side-by-side fridge instead of paying $1,000+ to replace it.

Heh, heh, tell me where you get a decent fridge (side by side) for $1K? But, you are so correct. I think we're just about maxed out on efficiency of the guts of refrigerators. It makes no sense to replace a functioning fridge to save a few bucks/month on electricity.

One possible remaining improvement (at the cost of convenience, foot-print size and the cost of higher cost) would be to structure refrigerators like a squatty chest-style freezer (I've seen in-drawer fridges like this - very expensive.) That way, the cold air wouldn't "fall out" every time the unit is opened. YMMV

 

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by tmm99 View Post
It may be true that the old machines last a whole lot longer, but the electricity cost for them must be pretty high. A friend of mine had an old greenish yellow fridge (I don't know what decades they made fridges with ugly colors) but she said her monthly electric bill came down by over $20 after replacing ot with a new one.

They'd have to be more than 25 years old to use significantly more power than today's models. ....

When I did so, checking many times over the years, it said the most energy-efficient equivalent replacement would save me all of $2-$3/month.

So it was a no-brainer to keep my current side-by-side fridge instead of paying $1,000+ to replace it.

Right. Saving $20 a month is an outlier, not representative of 99.99% of people with old fridges.

I checked my 1992 fridge, 29 YO and the label is rated for 1080 kWh annual (and I've measured it to be very close to that). At our ~ $0.10 kWh cost, that's ~ $9 a month, so it is impossible to save $20 a month. Heck, I couldn't even do that by replacing two fridges with zero energy use models!

Now it is possible that a much older unit could be using $30/month I suppose, maybe in a high $/kWh area. But it seems unlikely and there sure aren't many of those old units still around.

I'm also very skeptical of someone saying they "saved on their bill", if they didn't actually measure the appliance over a period of a week. Far too many variables to see a $20 delta.

Well the positive thing about this thread it it got me to check the dust on the coils of the fridge in the house we moved into this spring. Some dust on the front grill, not too bad really underneath. But I feel better having checked it and cleaned what I could.

edit/add: I looked it up, our 2018 fridge is rated 660kWh annual vs the 29 you fridge @ 1080. So at our $0.10 per kWh, that's a $3.50 a month savings.

-ERD50

 

[RunningBum]

Regarding the counter depth conversation a couple pages back:
One of my failures in my custom designed home is that I didn't place the fridge where depth doesn't matter, or didn't put in deeper counters where the fridge is. And even worse than sticking out, it would stick out by the kitchen entry, so it would actually be in the way. So, I got a counter depth fridge 13 years ago when I replaced a smaller 20+ yo fridge. But being single I rarely run out of fridge space, and it's probably nicer to not have to reach deep into the fridge for anything. And I've got an under-counter beer fridge downstairs, and a chest freezer.

Regarding longevity, I've owned 2 fridges, starting in 1986. First was a Kenmore (not sure who made it), second is an LG.

W/D is an LG manufactured Kenmore, 4 years old so durability has not really been tested.

 

[tmm99]

They'd have to be more than 25 years old to use significantly more power than today's models.

There was a contest in the early 1990s to improve energy efficiency of fridges...goal was to cut annual power consumption in half.

Unsurprisingly the winning design essentially added more insulation.

The fridge I bought in 1995 (technically a 1996 model) was one of the first re-designed ones.

I used to be able to plug its exact model number into the Energystar.gov calculator.

When I did so, checking many times over the years, it said the most energy-efficient equivalent replacement would save me all of $2-$3/month.

So it was a no-brainer to keep my current side-by-side fridge instead of paying $1,000+ to replace it.

My friend said she had a very old fridge that's greenish-yellow and looking at photos of the old fridges online, I think it was a 1970's build.

https://bigchill.com/us/blog/refrigerators-through-the-decades/

From the article below,
https://www.thesimpledollar.com/save-money/is-it-cost-effective-to-replace-your-refrigerator-today/

First of all, over the history of home refrigeration, the energy use of a refrigerator has halved about every 15 years. In the 1970s, refrigerators gobbled up about 2200 kWh of energy per year. By the early 1990s, that was down to about 1100 kWh. By the mid 2000s, that was down to about 600 kWh. Today, we’re getting close to 300 kWh on the most efficient models. Assuming that things continue to get more efficient, you can assume that a fridge will be down in the 150 kWh per year range by the mid 2030s or so.

Let’s translate that to today’s dollars. A good nationwide average for energy use is about $0.12 per kWh. So, a 1970s fridge would eat up about $264 a year in energy use, an early 1990s fridge would gobble up $132, a mid 2000s fridge would slurp down $72, and a fridge today would only consume $36 per year in energy use. At that pace, a fridge in 15 years would only consume $18 per year in energy use.

She said her electric bill went down by over $20 a month when she replaced the fridge with a new one so that's about right (as per the article.)

I even know someone who still has a very old fridge in the basement that's probably from the 1950s. I have no idea how much they pay for the electric bill...

 

[Telly]

My DW likes having wall ovens - a microwave oven on top, a “regular” oven below, then a warming drawer. Works well for her and it looks very nice.

So when we were doing the kitchen in the lake house, our contractor suggested putting in a “regular” microwave oven with a trim kit. It looks like the matching built in one and is cheaper - and cheaper to replace in the future if (or really when) the microwave oven dies.

Our present house had a GE wall oven under a GE microwave, built in. When I renovated the kitchen, I pulled it all out to replace, it was an unusual design. It was a wall oven with many steel panels around and above it. The microwave was a tabletop unit, in the classy Hotel-Motel anti-theft cabinet. There was all sorts of bracketry connecting the MW to the oven, it all slid out as a (heavy!) combined unit. The microwave did not have a wall plug on it. Instead it had a 3-pin Molex plug on individual wires, which plugged into the oven assembly for power. The oven assembly was hard-wired to 240v (the microwave used one line of it, with neutral, for 120v.) There was a name for this sort of combined unit, and oddly enough, GE was still building some, but not much choice.

But I went separates instead.

Only certain microwaves had trim kits, and had to watch the overall physical sizes closely. The trim kit has the trim panel as seen from the front, an internal base bracket that holds the MW, and other panels/ducts that steer cooling air in, and heated-up air from MW out, such that the two do not mix inside the wall cabinet. It takes in cooling air at the top of the face trim, and exhausts warm air out the bottom of the face trim. This is important, as if the oven door is open/partially open, don't want super hot oven air going into the MW cooling inlet.

I chose a GE oven & MW. as they were rated highly by CR, and the previous unit pair did well. GE also had online documentation on pairing separate units, the minimum spacing required between, etc. good dimensional drawings. I put in a separate 120v box and receptacle behind the MW, for it to plug into for 120v. I put in a 3/4" plywood shelf in the existing wood built-in cabinet on cleats to hold the MW, and caulked it all around to prevent any air heated from around the case of the oven below from rising up to the MW above.

** For those that never saw one, the Hotel-Motel option for a full-size tabletop MW used a steel case that had many round deep divots pressed into the sheet metal on top and both sides. It was to lessen the possibility of theft, due to it's memorable case... "OK Walter, where did you steal your new microwave from?"

 

[ERD50]

My friend said she had a very old fridge that's greenish-yellow and looking at photos of the old fridges online, I think it was a 1970's build.

https://bigchill.com/us/blog/refrigerators-through-the-decades/

From the article below,
https://www.thesimpledollar.com/save-money/is-it-cost-effective-to-replace-your-refrigerator-today/

Quote:
First of all, over the history of home refrigeration, the energy use of a refrigerator has halved about every 15 years. In the 1970s, refrigerators gobbled up about 2200 kWh of energy per year. By the early 1990s, that was down to about 1100 kWh. By the mid 2000s, that was down to about 600 kWh. Today, we’re getting close to 300 kWh on the most efficient models. Assuming that things continue to get more efficient, you can assume that a fridge will be down in the 150 kWh per year range by the mid 2030s or so.

Let’s translate that to today’s dollars. A good nationwide average for energy use is about $0.12 per kWh. So, a 1970s fridge would eat up about $264 a year in energy use, an early 1990s fridge would gobble up $132, a mid 2000s fridge would slurp down $72, and a fridge today would only consume $36 per year in energy use. At that pace, a fridge in 15 years would only consume $18 per year in energy use.

She said her electric bill went down by over $20 a month when she replaced the fridge with a new one so that's about right (as per the article.)

I even know someone who still has a very old fridge in the basement that's probably from the 1950s. I have no idea how much they pay for the electric bill...

Sorry, but that writer doesn't know what he' s talking about. "Journalism" bah-humbug!

I have the annual kWh ratings and years for three fridges that I have owned (and have measured two of them and found it to be consistent with the rating).

1992: 1080 kWh
2010: 456 kWh
2018: 660 kWh (note that energy consumption went UP ~ 36% between 2010 and 2018)

I'll make a leap of faith and assume his 2200 kWh for a 1970's fridge is reasonable. I also don't think the technology changed much in the preceding decades, so I'd bet a 1950's is running about the same as a 1970s model. Efficiency improvements came after that.

I guess the 2018 model might be considered "fancy, high end", but that's what people are buying today, I'd say it's pretty typical of what I see in people's homes. It doesn't seem to have any more storage space than our older, more efficient model, it's not some gourmet kitchen TV set style.

It would be interesting to see what the "fleet average" of fridges sold today is, vs 10 years ago.

So you might save $20 a month at the current $0.133/kWh average, that's $240/year, 1804 kWh/year savings. To get that from a 2200 kWh fridge means replacing it with ~ 400 kWh fridge, which I don't think are common, you would need to focus on expensive high eff ones (like the ones that off-grid people buy, where efficiency is king). But in most cases, still probably not worth replacing an old one for economic or environmental reasons, considering the financial and environmental cost of new fridges, and the probably lower life-span of the new fridge.

The article's use of 300kWh is not representative of today's fridges. And you can't extrapolate future power consumption based on the trend since the 1990's. There are diminishing returns, and I'd bet money that the actual average figures have gone up, not down in the past 10 years.

Actually, his conclusions aren't too far off the mark, but...

Second, you need to be replacing a fridge that’s older – no less than fifteen years old, and preferably a fridge with a manufacture year in the 1900s. Third, you need to not be moving to the absolute latest state of the art fridge; an entry level fridge or a Consumer Reports best buy is what you should be aiming for with your replacement.

My 1992 fridge is fairly efficient, and it's almost 30 years old - I'd say his "15 year" criteria is way off.

But people aren't buying entry level fridges. They replace an old basic one with one with in the door ice maker and water. All you hear in the media is "old fridges are energy hogs, replace them with new and you'll save big $$$!!!".

All this is broad brush and misinforming the public. Look at the actual energy ratings to decide what's right.

Oh, and I just verified - the Energy Star rating, which should be useful, is not It does not include the ice maker (which heats the tray to dislodge the ice - imagine what putting heat into the freezer does for efficiency! Adding heat, and then taking it away - a double whammy!!)! So it's apples-oranges.

https://www.energy.gov/articles/doe-reaches-agreement-lg-electronics-usa-refrigerator-energy-matter

This test procedure, which has been used for decades and is based on a well-recognized and industry-wide adopted procedure, requires, among other things, that the ice maker be disabled but that all temperature controllable compartments, including ice storage bins, be set at their coldest temperature.

-ERD50