renters for life a question

You're a lucky guy....... Just off the top of my head, I can think of the following items that came up over just the last couple of decades: replaced the roof, replaced the HVAC system, hardwood floors refinished, kitchen remodeled, bath remodeled.......... I gotta stop thinking about it. Gives me a headache!:LOL:

Roof, never
HVAC, never
Hardwood, every home, never touched it
Kitchen, nope
Bath, never touched it
I think it really depends on what you buy. It really does.
 
The most I have dropped on a home repair over a 40 year period is $1500.



I'm trying to think of any home repair that wasn't at least $1,500. Roof, flooring (hardwood sanded and refinished), hvac, electrical, pool, septic, windows.


Better stop thinking about it before I depress myself.
 
I'm trying to think of any home repair that wasn't at least $1,500. Roof, flooring (hardwood sanded and refinished), hvac, electrical, pool, septic, windows.


Better stop thinking about it before I depress myself.

I’ve owned 9 homes over a 35 year period. If you move, you leave your worries behind and you equity increases with every move,
 
Thanks, I checked out several complexes which were in that price range. Not the type of neighbors I want to live around. I'll just leave it at that. I looked hard at the Alders in Magnolia and I can get 762 square feet for $1,700 + a couple of hundred more for covered parking and cable (which is not optional).

Sorry, nice places out this way are around $2K.

I have a friend at the Alders with a 2 bedroom, garage and all the other costs. He's paying $2,500/month. He has a dog too.

Forgot to add: My dog now has to pay a monthly rental fee in an apartment these days. And also a non-refundable pet deposit in some places. UGH!

Covered parking for what?

What about Conroe? Sugar Land? Richmond? Katy?
 
You're a lucky guy....... Just off the top of my head, I can think of the following items that came up over just the last couple of decades: replaced the roof, replaced the HVAC system, hardwood floors refinished, kitchen remodeled, bath remodeled.......... I gotta stop thinking about it. Gives me a headache!:LOL:

That’s more realistic. Not sure who else paid just $1,500 in 40 years?
 
renting means you are paying someone else to do maintenance, so if you can do basic maintenance yourself (for "free") on your own place you get to keep that money
 
Rent vs own, from a strictly financial POV comes down to the market in your area.

I live in area that is coastal (about 2 miles/crow flies from the beach) that has students, marines (transitory) and long time owners. It has great schools so family with young kids want to move here. The housing stock is old... 50-65 years ... tract homes. But the market price to buy ranges from 1.3M - 1.8M for homes that range from 1200sf to 3000sf. Most fall in the 1800-2200sf range. And there are still bidding wars going on at these prices.

(Crazy, I know!)

Rentals of a 3br/2ba 1400sf go for about $4k/month. These are snapped up by students and military officer families. Houses don't stay on the market for rent long unless they get priced over $5k/month. It is far cheaper to rent. Most of the owners of the rentals are long term owners who paid a lot less and have locked in low property taxes due to prop 13.

In my area, it's cheaper to rent. Right now. In this market. But it was a different market when we bought 20 years.

Changing topics - with an older house, we definitely have maintenance come up. We budget for it. Last summer we replaced a fence. This summer we're replacing the siding everywhere it isn't stucco to fire proof. (Hardy board). Next year we're debating roof vs installing central air. (Global warming.)
 
Has anyone here rented for life and never bought? It's applied to people who rented and then fired then bought?

Did you do the cost calculation? Did you figure out if it was cheaper always renting? Anyone who fired or got close probably rans a ton of numbers for everything. They also tracked what they spent on rent and what the house/condo they rented would have gone for in 2000 and then gone for in 2020.

I'm curious if anyone rented forever and did the calculation on how much more they saved renting? And if they saved the difference between a mortgage and rent? And if they invested the down payment and how the numbers all worked out after say 30 years.

And if you rented, did you ever calculate what the appreciation over the time you were renting there what happened?
OP, since you asked the above question, you are probably a renter by heart. It is in your blood really. I have relatives who refused to buy a house until they have a gun pointed to their heads (which their wives did). Seriously, just follow your heart. You will be unhappy doing it any other way.
For full disclosure, DW and I want to be home owners by heart. We purchased our first condo back when we didn't even have much $ for a down payment. Now, home remodeling is a joy. Upgrading the bathrooms, kitchen, hardwood, repainting, landscape, hardscape work etc. added up to the cost of a Ferrari or two for us, BUT, we love spending $ on those upgrades than buying a Ferrari. The joy of having a piece of heaven in your back yard blah blah blah is real for us. If you don't care as much about your living quarter, renting has got to be cheaper (unless you live where we live). Cheers.
 
I have never owned a place to live. Always rented because CA house prices are extreme and work opportunities moved me between SF and LA. Roughly rent is $3500 per million of property =0.35%/month.

Instead we bought rental properties in areas where $1 mill of property rents for $10,000 =1.00%/month.

This combination has outperformed buying our own home. We don’t have to buy and sell the rentals. We locked in low 30year loans. They are all remote with property managers. We were more free to take distant work opportunities that ended up paying better etc.

Best of both worlds.
 
I've mostly owned, rented for a few years right out of college and for my first 4 years after retiring and moving to Hawaii.

In general, I think people retiring early are better off owning, either outright or with a fixed mortgage than renting. But there is nothing that says you can't RE as a renter.

Inflation until the last two years has been a couple of points below the historical after since about 2000, although rents have increased much faster than inflation.

If you do RE as a renter, I think that it is extremely important that you construct a portfolio that holds up well in an inflationary environment. This means iBonds, TIPs, real estate, perhaps gold or other commodities, and probably underweighting fixed long-term bonds
 
We have been through this and we rented for 13 years before buying a house again. Here is our particular experience and again is not going to be typical.

The last house we lived in was an older house in Baton Rouge and it was large, with a swimming pool. We lived in it for 11 years and I kept track of all expenses including maintenance and improvements. We hired a person to cut the grass and I did the pool maintenance but I did keep track of chemicals and repairs on the pool etc.

I had read that you can budget between 2 and 5% of the value of a house for ongoing running costs and our house was much closer to 5% than 2% as it was an older property.

We were planning on moving into a rented place when we retired so we could "lock and leave" as we planned to spend a lot of time away. It was about 5 years from planned retirement and our daughter and her husband had been living in a very nice apartment complex which we got to know well when we visited her in Austin so we did some calculations and decided that we should sell up and move into a nice complex where we currently lived. As well as no maintenance costs there was also no property taxes, house and flood insurance or gym fees (complex had a lovely pool, and a good gym, games room with pool table etc). It worked absolutely great for us as after a few months a new job opportunity opened up in The Woodlands, Texas and moving apartment was a piece of cake compared to moving house. After 4 years in The Woodlands we moved again for a couple of years, back to Louisiana to work on a big project, then retired and back to The Woodlands. The next 7 years we did many months of traveling each year before moving back to England and buying a house.

We put all the money from the proceeds of the 2004 house sale into a mutual fund and 13 years later when we came to use it to buy a house here in a small market town in Yorkshire the investments had doubled in value so we were very pleased with the outcome.
 
I had an aunt and uncle that rented the same apartment for 42 years. Third floor of 3 story flat on the south side of Chicago. They had no kids and loved to travel. They both actually passed away in that apartment well into their 90's.

Mike
 
About 13 years ago, I was in a position to decide to buy or rent. I might have missed the comment but I did not see a mention of using one of the rent vs buy calculators that are found online. It seems no one on this forum would recommend making FI decision without a Firecalc or similar analysis.

When I first reviewed the buy/rent scenarios, I realized I did not consider some of the ownership costs such as real estate fees, mortgage interest, property tax, All the maintenance costs from a new roof to a new lawnmower, lost income on down payment etc. What did I really make on a house that I paid $200k and sold for $300k. It was not $100k.

As has been suggested by other posts, houses can make or lose money. The one advantage of buying is even if you could have had more money had you rented, no matter how you managed your money before selling, there is likely a golden pot at the end of the rainbow. This seems to be one of the reasons mostly mentioned for buying by most people.

We are renting now as a lifestyle choice, not a financial calculation. (Buying a house can be a lifestyle vs financial choice). Leaving our rental vacant while traveling is preferred. Having the flexibility to move again (nursing home/other) is appealing. And making it easier on our children not to deal with a house sale is also on our mind, although our health is fine right now.
 
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My guess is that on a financial basis, owning wins out in the long run. But you have to stay put long enough. If you move around every few years, you're going to spend a lot in closing costs/commissions, etc.

It cost me roughly $175,000 up front, to get into my current house. That included a 25% down payment, because I didn't have the income to get into it for 20%, or less, as well as the associated closing costs. I'm coming up on the 5 year anniversary in this place. So, just allocating the down payment/closing across 60 months, that's $2917 per month right there.

My mortgage was initially around $2900/mo, but I've refinanced since then, and it's now around $2530/mo. But, depending on how creative you want to get with the accounting, you could argue I've essentially been paying $5400+ per month for the house, not including utilities, maintenance, etc.

I have no idea what a place like this would rent for. Most likely, there aren't a lot of comps out there to get a gauge on a ~2500 square foot, 4 br/2.5 ba two story with an oversized in-ground pool on a sprawling, secluded 6.5 acre lot.

Still, I could see the argument being made for investing that $175,000, and then renting a more modest place, for whatever I could get for my $2500-2900/mo mortgage.

Over time though, the mortgage becomes less and less of an issue, simply because of inflation. For instance, that $2900 I was paying in 2018 would be like $3500 in 2023 dollars. While I'm only paying around $2500 now, if I hadn't refinanced, it would probably be around $3100-3200, as property taxes and insurance went up.

As for maintenance, the house has been pretty minimal so far. I've had to make a few minor toilet repairs. One light in the kitchen went bad (wiring problem), but there are plenty of other lights, so I just left it for now. In 2019, the refrigerator stopped working. That was about $300 to fix. And earlier this year, the outside unit of the downstairs HVAC went out. That was around $450, but included some maintenance I had as well.

I'm on well and septic, so no water bill. Every once in awhile, I do have to add chemicals. Solar salt that comes in 50 pound bags, and sodium hydroxide that comes in a gallon jug. I just bought 5 bags and 4 jugs, for about $97.00. But that expense comes around infrequently enough that I don't really keep track of it. Last time I had to add anything was sometime last year, I think.

Now the swimming pool has been a different story. One year I had to have the sand filter replaced. And then another year I had to have the pump replaced. I forget the exact cost, but I think each one was between $1-2K. I also had to rebuild the roof on the pump house, but I did that myself, and it was only $100-200 in material.

Anyway, with regards to renting vs buying, I made the right decision, for my needs/mindset. But, I am only a sample of one, and as the EPA disclaimer says, "Your Mileage May Vary".
 
Renter for life here.

Will be 57 next month.

Been in the same rent stabilized apartment in NYC since 1994. Rent then was $1100. Today it's $2300. It enabled me to invest money in the stock market which allowed me to retire at 50 back in 2017. Extremely grateful.
 
Renter for life here.

Will be 57 next month.

Been in the same rent stabilized apartment in NYC since 1994. Rent then was $1100. Today it's $2300. It enabled me to invest money in the stock market which allowed me to retire at 50 back in 2017. Extremely grateful.

And here is the key to the answer to the question. Now, full disclosure, I'm a landlord, and have owned multiple homes and investment properties over the past +25 years. I've made extraordinary profits/gains on every single purchase, including my own housing. I've lived most of my adult life in same vicinity as FREE866. My initial downpayment on my first home was $25,000 (which took me several years to save up for at the time). From there I traded up.

So, the question is: would I have been better off with a rent stabilized apartment (i.e. low capped housing costs) or am I better off having bought a home (initially an apt) and successively traded up over the years to something now worth millions.

Ok, I know I'm oversimplifying here - it's an individual answer. Depends on income, risk tolerance, what quality of housing you desire, how much control over your environment you need, what you want to pass on to the next generation, etc.

For sure though, if you're going to go in the direction of rent-for-life, I would be hesitant to take that approach unless I had some kind of protection against rent increases and/or eviction (NYC has very strict housing regs when it comes to rent regulated units).

The people I know who have been happy with their rent-for-life choices have all had rent-regulated apartments. But, no question, most have to some extent lamented not participating in the crazy appreciation that r.e. market has seen over the past decades. There is one example though, where they negotiated a huge pay-out with their landlord to move out of their rent-stabilized apartment, so in a sense they did benefit from the r.e. market run-up.
 
Renter for life here.

Will be 57 next month.

Been in the same rent stabilized apartment in NYC since 1994. Rent then was $1100. Today it's $2300. It enabled me to invest money in the stock market which allowed me to retire at 50 back in 2017. Extremely grateful.

I bought the house I am currently living in in 1993 and paid it off in 2020. My mortgage payment was around $900 per month. Obviously, I still pay taxes, insurance, and upkeep to continue to live here. My son recently moved out and just rented a 2-bedroom apartment about a 1/2 mile away from us. He's paying $1645 a month for about 1000 sf. I think I did the right thing by buying when I did.

Mike
 
I have owned since I was 22. Besides finances it was important to me to raise my kids with a house and yard. I love making a house my own by remodeling, decorating, etc. Having lived in 5 states because of work I have made money, lost money and broke even.

Living in Reno if I didn’t own I couldn’t afford to live here. Rents are more than Sacramento. When I got divorced 2 years ago some people said rent and don’t make any big decisions for a year. I knew that was good advice for some parts of the country but not here.

I immediately bought a condo and within a year my condo increased 50k in value. Plus I don’t want to have to move in my old age.
 
I bought the house I am currently living in in 1993 and paid it off in 2020. My mortgage payment was around $900 per month. Obviously, I still pay taxes, insurance, and upkeep to continue to live here. My son recently moved out and just rented a 2-bedroom apartment about a 1/2 mile away from us. He's paying $1645 a month for about 1000 sf. I think I did the right thing by buying when I did.



Mike

What you are missing in your comparison, how much is your house worth and how much could you be making in investment income. A $500k home in S&P (which has averaged 8% over the long term) would generate $40k per year, that's $3,300/mo.

BTW, I'm pro homeownership.
 
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My grandparents always rented. When they retired and moved to San Diego, they lived near the beach and a very nice two bedroom. Two bath. It was the perfect lifestyle for them. No maintenance and a walkable neighborhood.

My mothers' parents also rented for life. The lived in Brooklyn, in a walkable neighborhood, socialized a lot, and enjoyed the lifestyle. After my grandfather passed, my grandmother eventually moved into a rent-controlled apartment, which she enjoyed for approximately 20 years, before being unable to live independently, and living with my parents.
 
This thread is really confusing but to answer OPs last question to me as far as I know the life long renters do not invest in index funds. Nor do they regret renting.

I can't really quite grasp the argument that home repairs aren't more than $1500 either. I think my water heater was around that, and the flooring I replaced when the cheap builder carpet had to go was certainly a lot more. Plus I need a roof and HVAC soon. My "new" roof is essentially a huge rip off in my estimation because they reuse the tiles I already have so I just have to pay for new "paper" and such and the labor associated with laying it.

And when you say well I bought the wrong house, sure I did, and I do regret that but I could not have afforded a house with hardwood floors. Still can't really, or won't. It is just a place to sleep after all.

My house has appreciated sure but since I can't sell the LR to pay bills it hardly matters. If I moved to LCOL area it would help free up a little money but otherwise it will fund LTC*, CCRC, my estate, etc. I guess. (*I do have LTC but skeptical it will pay out when needed).

Edited to add: I was not ever clear on this thread if this investment I was supposed to do was outside 401K, assuming it was an addition to the 401K.
 
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