Retiring in one's 30s? Is that really RE or abondoning job/career/work life/more?

[Letj]

I can honestly say, looking back over my 30+ year IT career, that it means nothing in the grand scheme of things, and that if I had been financially able to in my 30's (or even 20's), I would have escaped from it.

I'd much rather have enjoyed life pursuing other things than being trapped sitting in a cube all day, or doing some other mundane boring task.

So in my case, yes, I would have been abandoning job/career/work but not life. I would have enjoyed life more, having the time and money to pursue things I actually cared about.

+1000

 

[Texas Proud]

I have a friend who's husband made it big when his startup was sold. He chose not to go back to work. He was 35. That doesn't mean he was running away from his job/career/work/life/society. He'd cashed out and now could spend his time doing what he wanted. My friend continued to work - but retired a year or two ago, herself - in her late 40's. They have no kids, have a small house in a great part of Berkeley... and find plenty to amuse themselves. They are active in various meetup groups, active in the arts communities, and big time foodies. How does that equate to running away.

I'm always surprised when I see a HUGE success (financially) then the person doesn't sit back and enjoy it - but instead goes to a lesser position - just to keep their hand in the game. Sanjay Jha - former CEO of Motorola Mobility is an example of this. He made well over $100M for a few years work - and got a big lump sum when Google bought MMI. Now he's working for a smaller chip company that few have heard of. I wonder why he doesn't just enjoy his time with his wife and kids. He's definitely not running away from work/job - but perhaps he's running away from his family...

I guess the counter question to make is:
"If you can afford to retire early and spend more time with your family, or pursuing your passions - why would you continue to work for money you don't need? Why are you running from your passions and family""

One of the things that people who make these big time fortunes is that most have some kind of.... let me just say drive... that people who want to RE do not have... heck, when I was at mega.... after a merger they brought in a 70 yo exec who was rich beyond anything he could spend.... he just LIKED the power that he had.... the ability to order people around etc. etc... he was on the road 4 days a week... usually dragging a group of people around with him... I just do not think he could turn it off....

 

[Lakewood90712]

Seems like taking an un-conventional path, rather than ER. Nothing wrong with that at all.

 

[audreyh1]

One of the things that people who make these big time fortunes is that most have some kind of.... let me just say drive... that people who want to RE do not have... heck, when I was at mega.... after a merger they brought in a 70 yo exec who was rich beyond anything he could spend.... he just LIKED the power that he had.... the ability to order people around etc. etc... he was on the road 4 days a week... usually dragging a group of people around with him... I just do not think he could turn it off....

Yep, know several people like that. Some of them founders of my company. Know plenty of them outside too. And when you see people like Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos (who has his own "deep space exploration venture" as a hobby) - they will always have a bunch of irons in the fire, schemes underway and plotting more. They like playing with really big toys. These are their toys. They work, because that's how you get big things done and be hands-on at the same time. They're not interested in sitting back and funding another genius.

Three buys around the table - "what's your favorite hobby?" "Oh, I like to fish." "Oh, I really enjoy taking photographs." "Oh, I'm into deep space exploration right now so I started a company to do that, and I'm also building a clock in West Texas that will last 10,000 years."

 

[CaliforniaMan]

Yep, know several people like that. Some of them founders of my company. Know plenty of them outside too. And when you see people like Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos (who has his own "deep space exploration venture" as a hobby) - they will always have a bunch of irons in the fire, schemes underway and plotting more. They like playing with really big toys. These are their toys. They work, because that's how you get big things done and be hands-on at the same time. They're not interested in sitting back and funding another genius.

Three buys around the table - "what's your favorite hobby?" "Oh, I like to fish." "Oh, I really enjoy taking photographs." "Oh, I'm into deep space exploration right now so I started a company to do that, and I'm also building a clock in West Texas that will last 10,000 years."

+1 Very good point!

 

[audreyh1]

Oops - I see I meant three guys around a table.

Hate that when it happens!!!

 

[Klubbie]

I've seen posts by REs who retired in their 30s. Every time I see one, I wonder if the person is entering RE or is he just running away from his job/career/work life/society? Anyone else wondered about this? What says you who retired in their 30s? What "really" made you quit work (or enter RE) so early in your life? Did RE last?

Questions not meant for those who are a single income family where woman (or man) has full time job taking care of kids, home, etc. That's not RE in my book.

As someone in his 30's planning to FIRE sometime in my mid-50's, my response to this is that job/career/work has very rarely been about the actual work itself. If it was, I would have less of a desire to try and achieve FIRE.

If work was about truly solving problems, making a difference, thinking critically, and analyzing data then I would not be as interested in FIRE. But I have found work to be more about arbitrary deadlines (reports needed in an hour that take at least 3 hours to make, only to sit on someone's desk for days before they are actually read), useless jargon that no one actually understands or they use it to sound smart, CYA, office politics, power struggles, and not at all about actually using the skills one brings to a team.

Some places I have been have been better than others, but at some point it all reverts back to those common denominators.

Admittedly a way around this is to start your own business about something you care about, but I fully admit that I value the stability of working for a company over the risk associated with starting a business. Plus I am not creative and would struggle to be the one to lead the start up. If someone I know were to start a firm and asked me to be a part of the management team, I would potentially move into that role, but that is because I know my strengths and weaknesses well.

I'm okay with the drudgery of corporate life though as it has its place. It does have its moments, and when it DOES become about the analysis, problem solving, and challenge it can be very fulfilling. Either way, it is helping me reach FIRE so I'll put the best I have into it until then and accept it for what it is.

 

[FUEGO]

I just crossed the one year boundary in early retirement* yesterday. What's that saying about "the worst day at the beach is better than the best day at the office"? Yeah, except expand beach to include everything in ER. I don't recall any days in the office where I was like "holy crap, I'm doing something and I made a difference." Sure, stuff got built, people have new roads to drive on and new neighborhoods to live in, and I see the results of my efforts on google maps and advertised on TV and in the paper. Big whoop!

Now my sole focus is me. And my family. And friends. And having fun. And learning. And doing whatever I want to do.

I "abandoned" my career and the BS buckets that came with it. That doesn't mean I won't ever go back to it if I run out of really fun stuff to do! Or need the money or decide I want a higher standard of living. Between kids and personal interests, I can't imagine finding time for full time or even half time work right now.

Did I abandon society? I don't think so! I'm just not working for a paycheck any more. Maybe that makes me a social deviant, but take a peek at the lottery tickets bought every day. All those folks are just pissing away their funds to have a near-zero chance of having something like what I have (plenty of money, plenty of freedom). Instead of being a social deviant, I think ER is what a large swath of the population wants deep down inside (judging them by their actions and not words).

* By the OP's definition, I'm not retired because my wife is still working through the end of the year at least. So take my thoughts with the adequately sized grain of salt required for your taste.

 

[ShortInSeattle]

I've seen posts by REs who retired in their 30s. Every time I see one, I wonder if the person is entering RE or is he just running away from his job/career/work life/society? Anyone else wondered about this? What says you who retired in their 30s? What "really" made you quit work (or enter RE) so early in your life? Did RE last?

Questions not meant for those who are a single income family where woman (or man) has full time job taking care of kids, home, etc. That's not RE in my book.

I'll answer as someone who has a good shot at ER in her late thirties.

A few thoughts:

1. On the surface, I don't understand why ER would be any less attractive to someone who is 35 as opposed to 55. Work isn't (I would argue) our purpose in living, so once you've got your needs met, why continue to exchange your limited time for dollars you don't need?

2. There are so many things I want to do that are not possible while being employed. I want to eliminate the words "alarm clock" from my vocabulary. (This is huge!) I want to slow travel for 3-4 months at a clip. I'd like to write more, volunteer at a cat shelter, and go spend a week or two helping my Mom work on her house. I want to eat lunch with my DH most days, and not see him coming home at night all tired and stressed.

3. Will my ER last? Probably. I'm using fairly conservative estimates. But I am quite open to the idea that I may choose to earn money again someday. I may take on part time work for the intellectual stimulation, or do something interesting that comes with a paycheck. Who knows?

I am setting things up so that I won't *need* a job, but I won't view it as failure if I decide to take on some paid work here and there. In fact, I have no idea what will happen and I kinda love that fact.

Freedom!

SIS

(Cautiously estimating FIRE in 2017 at the age of 38)

 

[FUEGO]

3. Will my ER last? Probably. I'm using fairly conservative estimates. But I am quite open to the idea that I may choose to earn money again someday. I may take on part time work for the intellectual stimulation, or do something interesting that comes with a paycheck. Who knows?

I am setting things up so that I won't *need* a job, but I won't view it as failure if I decide to take on some paid work here and there. In fact, I have no idea what will happen and I kinda love that fact.

I think the biggest difference between the 50-something ER and the 30-something ER is the willingness (or acceptance?) to possibly engage in some paid employment later in life. I've put a bookmark in the novel that is my career and stuck it on a bookshelf, but that doesn't mean I can't pull it off the shelf, dust it off and start turning the pages again in a decade. Or pick up an altogether different book and dive in head first!

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I think the biggest difference between the 50-something ER and the 30-something ER is the willingness (or acceptance?) to possibly engage in some paid employment later in life. I've put a bookmark in the novel that is my career and stuck it on a bookshelf, but that doesn't mean I can't pull it off the shelf, dust it off and start turning the pages again in a decade. Or pick up an altogether different book and dive in head first!

Just making $10K per year per spouse over 60 years adds in another $1.2M. Downshifting is a lot easier than total retirement at a relatively young age.

 

[LoneAspen]

I've put a bookmark in the novel that is my career and stuck it on a bookshelf, but that doesn't mean I can't pull it off the shelf, dust it off and start turning the pages again in a decade. Or pick up an altogether different book and dive in head first!

I like the analogy - that's a good one!

When I walk out the door, I'm taking my copy of "LoneAspen's History in the IT Field" and burning it, bookmark and all. I can honestly say I will NEVER get back into IT again unless I'm starving in the streets (and even then, I think I'd prefer to starve).

 

[CaliforniaMan]

I think the biggest difference between the 50-something ER and the 30-something ER is the willingness (or acceptance?) to possibly engage in some paid employment later in life. I've put a bookmark in the novel that is my career and stuck it on a bookshelf, but that doesn't mean I can't pull it off the shelf, dust it off and start turning the pages again in a decade. Or pick up an altogether different book and dive in head first!

It is a nice analogy, but for many if not most people IMO it is not very realistic. In your early to mid 30s your career is just taking off, you are usually just starting to make good money, and expecting career advancement and salary increases. Leaving at 33 and expecting to come back at 43 to the same page is not likely. The story has moved on, your page is no longer there.

It is the same for women who leave the workforce to raise a family and then want to return. They find there were consequences to leaving. Of course I am not saying don't leave to raise a family, or to RE, just that if you do want to return later, it will be to a different place than you were, and certainly to a different place than you might have been.

 

[FIREd]

It is a nice analogy, but for many if not most people IMO it is not very realistic. In your early to mid 30s your career is just taking off, you are usually just starting to make good money, and expecting career advancement and salary increases. Leaving at 33 and expecting to come back at 43 to the same page is not likely. The story has moved on, your page is no longer there.

It is the same for women who leave the workforce to raise a family and then want to return. They find there were consequences to leaving. Of course I am not saying don't leave to raise a family, or to RE, just that if you do want to return later, it will be to a different place than you were, and certainly to a different place than you might have been.

I agree. No matter how old you are, if you step out of the workforce for a few years you become stale IMO. I am a chemist by training. But after several years on the sidelines, my skills are outdated and I have lost of lot of technical knowledge (my wife is still employed as a chemist, so the decline is pretty evident throughout our conversations). In a tight job market and with the right connections, I could probably get another job in that field. But with the current job market and the fact that I have not cultivated past professional connections, that career is pretty much over for me. I am fine with that (I don't consider myself a chemist anymore). But if I needed to make money again, I'd have to reinvent myself professionally - like millions of other sidelined workers. I do have a good brain and other skills, some I developed in retirement, that could still make me some money in the future.

The other thing is, after tasting freedom for a few years, I know that going back to a traditional 9-5 career would be very stressful, more so than before retiring.

 

[FUEGO]

It is a nice analogy, but for many if not most people IMO it is not very realistic. In your early to mid 30s your career is just taking off, you are usually just starting to make good money, and expecting career advancement and salary increases. Leaving at 33 and expecting to come back at 43 to the same page is not likely. The story has moved on, your page is no longer there.

It is the same for women who leave the workforce to raise a family and then want to return. They find there were consequences to leaving. Of course I am not saying don't leave to raise a family, or to RE, just that if you do want to return later, it will be to a different place than you were, and certainly to a different place than you might have been.

I don't doubt it would be a challenge to pick up where you left off, and maybe necessary to "re-read a few chapters" to continue the analogy.

For some careers it would be a challenge to get back in the race, whereas others it might not be that challenging (especially after a little bit of time back on the job). In my field, the technology and software is mostly unchanged over the last ten years (they're using version 7 or 8 of the industry's main software package instead of version 5 when I started however there's not a lot of difference between the versions).

I get the feeling a lot of people rose up the career ladder a good bit, but for me at age 33 I never really rose that far. After 10 years away from my career, I bet it wouldn't take more than a year or two to get back to where I was (if that's where I wanted to go). YMMV of course.

FIRE'd brings out another good point - picking up new skills in ER can lead to a totally different (and more enjoyable) career. And one where you don't necessary have to make a ton of money. Or work a 9 to 5 if you don't want to. Although career paths that don't require 40+ hours per week might take some hustlin' and creativity!

 

[Greencheese]

I feel like if one is going for retirement they should be looking at the ERE website versus this one. As appealing as pulling the plug in the 30s is... I feel like it requires waaaaay too many lucky breaks and unknown guesses of the future to accurately predict.

 

[FUEGO]

I feel like if one is going for retirement they should be looking at the ERE website versus this one. As appealing as pulling the plug in the 30s is... I feel like it requires waaaaay too many lucky breaks and unknown guesses of the future to accurately predict.

Or nothing more than a 7 figure portfolio, ability to slum it when necessary, and cojones of steel?

 

[Focus]

I feel like if one is going for retirement they should be looking at the ERE website versus this one. As appealing as pulling the plug in the 30s is... I feel like it requires waaaaay too many lucky breaks and unknown guesses of the future to accurately predict.

I agree. I got to the point where I could retire only after three decades of lateral and upward moves at different companies, with no gap in between. And that leaves me, hopefully, with 30-40 years ahead, which is challenging enough. Planning to retire for 50-60 years after working full-on only a decade or so seems unrealistic to me.

The folks I've known who tried to go the I'll-work-on-occasion-and-only-at-what-I-want route from early on have had a harder time of it as they've gotten older and their options have dwindled with each passing decade.

 

[clifp]

I quit work at age 39, 15 years ago. I will say that my thinking has evolved a quite a bit over the time. So I think the running away question is a good one, and I am not sure I would have thought so until age 50.

The realization that you are FI has such a profound impact on your attitude about work, that to be honest I have a hard time taking criticism of early retirement by folks who aren't there yet seriously. It is one of those life changing moments that you have to experience to appreciate it.

For the sake of argument lets assume that money issues aren't a factor (obviously not true for many folks hoping to retire in their 30s).

Even though I had achieved FI by 39, I wasn't sure about actual retirement. I'd hoped to find a second career. Hell I even offer to work part time for a start up for stock only this summer. But hope is not a plan.

A while ago I posted this phrase which seem to resonate with a lot of folks
"Your best months working will be better than your best months in your retirement, but your worst months in retirement will be much much better than your worse months working." Lower highs but way higher lows.

Now some people have jobs that are almost never fulfilling. Others have jobs which are inherently meaningful (I am thinking about things, like teacher, doctor, firefighter, Disney Imagineer, and entertainer). The rest of us have jobs which can be fulfilling depending on our attitude and circumstance. Personally I generally had interesting jobs. I was always very conscious that I was working for a very important company in its hey day. There were definite times that I realized that what my team did would have a small impact on hundreds of millions of people, which was pretty heady stuff.

I think as a society we are conditioned to look for way to be part of a larger organization early on. For example the emphasis on TEAM (there is no I in team) sports in schools. Good organization emphasis the team aspect (nobody left behind, my brothers in blue). Team building exercise are common in corporate America. In my experience good corporation don't need this they have a mission which everybody buys into. For example I bet that virtually everybody that works for SpaceX is inspired about establishing a Mars colony.

Still at some point, I think most everybody gets tired of taking one for the team. Instead they start asking when is my turn to get the ball and have all the other guys block for me so I can get across the goal line. Most of us realize that most of the potential blockers are asking the same question. At which point we start to plan our escape.

A part of Senator McCain standard stump speech is a call to "commit to serving a cause greater than your self-interest.". I think most people get a sense of purpose in life by doing exactly this.

Of course there are some who don't feel the need to do this, but I suspect that is minority. For them setting personal goals, earn a PHd, qualify for the Boston Marathon, travel to 50 countries, create the best cabbage patch doll collection in my state are sufficient.

There are plenty of ways of serving a cause that have absolute nothing to do with a job. For many people being a good or even better great, dad, mom, husband, wife, daughter, or son are fulfilling. A good citizen seems rather bland to me but it may suffice for others. Still another message we get is that being a stay at home mom isn't enough, much less a stay at home dad.

Charities, civic organizations, and causes all are worthwhile activities to find the sense of teamwork that a job provides. Still my experience is that most volunteer activities are rather mundane: clean up a park, read to kids, give tours, help with fund raisers. For the most part entry level jobs with some nice perks and for a good cause. I estimate that less 20% of volunteer really get into the activity. Jobs for most people provide that sense of team and being part of cause greater than your self interest, which fills a need. Getting a paycheck provide a sense of validation that volunteer jobs don't generally provide.

I think it is worthwhile for young retirees to ask the question where will I find that sense of fulfillment and self work that working provides. I suspect that by the time most people hit their 50s and certainly by the time they get into their 60s they have accumulated a lifetime of validation, and idealism has been replaced by cynicism.

 

[brewer12345]

I dunno, clifp. Every time in my adult life I have let myself be suckered into believing a "greater good" type thing in some sort of organization, I have been disabused of the value of such things by the organizational sh!tshow that I invariably observed up close and personal. Maybe I am wired differently or maybe I am prematurely cynical at age 40, but I can tell you one thing for sure: I would never go find a job to be part of a mission or group. I am picking up a 1 year contract starting late next month and it is about one thing and one thing only: money.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Clif, I know people who fit in exactly with what you are saying here. They really do value the team element of working, and look for that in other places.

I don't know how it will be for me. I know that the past year and change of DH's sabbatical has been a huge lifechanger for us, in every way, and I'm not sure how it will play out in the future. But I know that he struggles with some of what you bring up in your post, and how to be meaningful when all he's really valued about work is the money it brings in.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[robnplunder]

I believe the best thing going for young REs is that have options to try other careers if they want to come back to the work force. I am over 50 and my learning days are over. Old dogs can learn new tricks but it has to be a very simple trick at best.

To Fuego, I don't think you left work force if you are a stay at home dad with 3 kids from 2 - 9. That's a full time job, ain't it? I am taking your name off of RE at 30 list ... .

 

[W2R]

I quit work at age 39, 15 years ago. I will say that my thinking has evolved a quite a bit over the time. [...]

Wow, excellent post, Clifp.

When I was in my 30's and 40's, I didn't WANT to quit work. I wanted to find out if I was going to change the world, if I was destined to greatness, or in summary, who I really could be in the big scheme of things. I was working to fulfill my place/destiny in the universe as much as anything, I suppose.

By the time I was 50, I was done with that and ready to retire, which I finally managed to do at age 61.

Now that I am 66, I am beyond cynical. In my youth I bought into the whole work ethic thing, hook, line, and sinker. Looking back I wonder if this values system had nothing of substance to it other than encouraging maximum production for the benefit of individuals higher up in the food chain. This probably is an overreaction but this is how it looks from where I sit. I could go on but will spare you.

I am so glad to be retired and out of the ratrace. I have never been so happy and fulfilled, and I think my health may have actually improved a little over the past five years of retirement.

 

[robnplunder]

Wow, excellent post, Clifp.

times 5.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Now that I am 66, I am beyond cynical. In my youth I bought into the whole work ethic thing, hook, line, and sinker. Looking back I wonder if this values system had nothing of substance to it other than encouraging maximum production for the benefit of individuals higher up in the food chain. This probably is an overreaction but this is how it looks from where I sit. I could go on but will spare you.

I feel the same way these days. George Carlin had a bit on the American Dream where he said they call it a dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.

Now we're more into reading books like Juilet Schor's Overworked American and Overspent American. She is on the board for a group called the New American Dream which focuses more on quality of life and less on maximum production / consumption:

Mission