Retiring to Urban Life

[imoldernu]

Being close to everything is great...
In our small town (Peru, IL) of 10,000 souls, within a two mile radius of our home, almost every major company has a presence... except for The Outback restaurant.

While we still drive, the furthest location that we regularly visit is Walmart, and that's 1.8 miles. the Hospital is 3 minutes away, and Aldi's is 1/8 mile. We live in a CCRC senior community, (Liberty Village) in our own 1500 sf home (since 2004). If and when we can no longer drive, we'll move to "the apartments"... which will give us free transport to anywhere in the area, (not on call, but a daily schedule). This will likely happen within the next 10 years, sometime before we turn 90...

So, not urban, but facility rich. One of the things that happens as one ages, is the consideration of safety, not just for personal health and welfare, but the security of knowing that your immediate community is designed to be age-friendly.

The word is "comfortable".

 

[Katsmeow]

This is an issue that DH and I have debated.

Right now, we live in a subdivision where we have 1 acre which I really like. I love the house, love the fact that all the houses here are on at least 1 acre. Love looking out the window and seeing deer running across the yard.

And he aren't that far from stuff. When we were looking I wouldn't even consider a place that didn't have cable internet and didn't have a hospital within 30 minutes away (we have 3 within 25 minutes of -- closest is about 20 minutes).

But...I can see in that late old age, the place won't work. Right now DH is the oldest of us and he is 66 and this is totally fine. But, we are also almost 20 minutes away from the nearest grocery store. It actually takes us 5 minutes driving just to get out of the subdivision and then another 10 minutes or so to get anywhere else. I'm excited right now as there is a new gas station/convenience store being built that will be about 10 minutes away. And, that seems so close.

But, even now it is tedious at times to go anywhere since it is basically 20 minutes to get anywhere. It is 35 minutes to the closest mall.

Again, it is fine now but I could see it being an issue when we don't want to drive as much (or can't).

The problems of living close in are really twofold. First, it is way more expensive. We get a lot more bang for our buck living where we live. Second, we have pets. Right now we have several dogs and several cats. The dogs will eventually be gone (we don't plan to replace them), but we will always have cats. In most city subdivisions you are limited to only 2 pets and that doesn't seem like many for me. Of course, maybe I will feel differently in another 15 years or so.

When we were looking for this house we were going nuts at first trying to find something that would work well now, but also work well then. I finally realized that really wasn't possible and that this house doesn't necessarily have to be the "final" house (no matter how much DH says he will never move). I'm happy for this to be the final house.... as long as we can still easily drive and get around. I suspect there will come a time, though, when I just won't want to have every trip to the store involve driving 45 minutes round trip.

 

[Miranda]

Being close to everything is great...
In our small town (Peru, IL) of 10,000 souls, within a two mile radius of our home, almost every major company has a presence... except for The Outback restaurant.

While we still drive, the furthest location that we regularly visit is Walmart, and that's 1.8 miles. the Hospital is 3 minutes away, and Aldi's is 1/8 mile. We live in a CCRC senior community, (Liberty Village) in our own 1500 sf home (since 2004). If and when we can no longer drive, we'll move to "the apartments"... which will give us free transport to anywhere in the area, (not on call, but a daily schedule). This will likely happen within the next 10 years, sometime before we turn 90...

So, not urban, but facility rich. One of the things that happens as one ages, is the consideration of safety, not just for personal health and welfare, but the security of knowing that your immediate community is designed to be age-friendly.

The word is "comfortable".

That's great to hear! I am sure this provides peace of mind for both you and your adult children.

There is a very nice CCRC in a nice area of my town that I am aware of, I was checking it out for MIL. It is near a suburban shopping district with nice attractions within half mile walk. They do excursions and bring in entertainment also. It is a condo set up and seems like an expensive option. To be honest I also worry that at some point I might lose control over my own situation. I guess I'd have to understand how the progression from independent living to nursing facility is determined.

An a la carte/diy approach to assisted living might turn out to be just as or even more expensive, depending on how much assistance we needed.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[Klubbie]

I also have a love/hate relationship with both the suburbs and urban areas.

Introverted by nature, cities wear me out quickly. But I do appreciate all they have to offer and the close proximity they offer to pretty much everything you need.

Suburbs on the other hand tend to give me a bit more space and allow me to connect with nature a bit more if I want. I really like that, and have struggled to do that when in an urban setting.

Rural areas are great for a weekend getaway, but I find myself with TOO much space.

So while I am a long way away from FIRE, I think if I were a betting man, I would find myself in a suburb close to major metro area with easy access to all the city has to offer. That, to me, is the perfect blend.

 

[meierlde]

Of course with respect to outside yard work if you have the resources it can be outsourced to a lawn service or if the neighbors have teenage kids to them, (teenagers can always use more money...) In addition for inside there are both cleaning services as well as handy man services.

 

[chris66]

I grew up suburban, and lived in suburban settings when first on my own (mainly to be close to the office). I liked growing up suburban. In our neighborhood, all the kids played together and everyone knew each other (it seemed). However, as an adult, I began to prefer walkable neighborhoods, with more interesting things to do.

Our last house before retirement was in the arts district of Columbus, Ohio. It was definitely urban. I knew my neighbors, and there was a strong community spirit for those who wanted to get involved. We could walk nearly anywhere, although I drove for major shopping, as I wouldn't want to carry a 35 pound bag of dog food and all our other stuff Just a heads up: older folks moving to the cities for the first time might not feel comfortable around some of the variety of people they are likely to encounter in a thriving urban setting. There were aggressive panhandlers, homeless people, and we weren't that far from some sketchier neighborhoods. For us, we loved the neighborhood dearly, but did not consider it to be where we wanted to retire. There were a lot of reasons for this, but the cost of living was a factor (not just property taxes -- but lifestyle costs).

For retirement, we decided we still wanted a walkable neighborhood, but in a rural setting. So, I guess we're kinda urban-rural. We live on a hill overlooking a historic downtown (Hermann, MO). It's an old, walkable grid neighborhood, surrounded by farms --definitely rural. However, we can walk to parks, restaurants, coffee shops, bars, a farmers market, an amphitheater, pharmacy, doctors, 2 wineries, and a brewery, among other things. We're just the other side of the Missouri River from the Katy Trail. We can walk to the Amtrak station, and the town has OATS buses for elderly transportation. The hospital is just a few blocks away. Although there is a lot of winery tourism, the town is still developing. Homes are incredibly affordable, but it's pretty quiet in town in the evenings. It's not an urban lifestyle -- but then we're not that far from St. Louis for when we want to take in the city lights. Also, although we walk to all these places right now, we are at the top of a hill. It will keep us in great shape for now, but at some point will require us to stop walking sooner than in a flat area, because that hill will kick your butt. Then, we'll have to drive something into town, but it will be a short, easy drive. Well, and once we're really old, we'll mostly stay at home and just enjoy the view

 

[Huston55]

For retirement, we decided we still wanted a walkable neighborhood, but in a rural setting. So, I guess we're kinda urban-rural. We live on a hill overlooking a historic downtown (Hermann, MO). It's an old, walkable grid neighborhood, surrounded by farms --definitely rural. However, we can walk to parks, restaurants, coffee shops, bars, a farmers market, an amphitheater, pharmacy, doctors, 2 wineries, and a brewery, among other things. We're just the other side of the Missouri River from the Katy Trail. We can walk to the Amtrak station, and the town has OATS buses for elderly transportation. The hospital is just a few blocks away. Although there is a lot of winery tourism, the town is still developing. Homes are incredibly affordable, but it's pretty quiet in town in the evenings. It's not an urban lifestyle -- but then we're not that far from St. Louis for when we want to take in the city lights. Also, although we walk to all these places right now, we are at the top of a hill. It will keep us in great shape for now, but at some point will require us to stop walking sooner than in a flat area, because that hill will kick your butt. Then, we'll have to drive something into town, but it will be a short, easy drive. Well, and once we're really old, we'll mostly stay at home and just enjoy the view

DW and I used to live not too far from Hermann. We lived in Belleville and O'Fallon, IL a long time ago.

 

[HFWR]

That gave me an idea....

I'll take door number 2...

I also have a love/hate relationship with both the suburbs and urban areas.

Introverted by nature, cities wear me out quickly. But I do appreciate all they have to offer and the close proximity they offer to pretty much everything you need.

Suburbs on the other hand tend to give me a bit more space and allow me to connect with nature a bit more if I want. I really like that, and have struggled to do that when in an urban setting.

Rural areas are great for a weekend getaway, but I find myself with TOO much space.

One good thing about DFW is the amount of "green" space available. I have bikes paths and nature trails close enough to walk or bike to, and many others within a reasonable drive. Other than my annoying next door neighbor, and the constant rumble of leaf blowers, it's relatively quiet and private, bit still about a mile from two major drug chains, and about two miles from Walmart, Lowe's, Costco, etc. It's not very walkable, per se, especially when it's 100+ degrees out, but if I get to where I can't comfortably drive 1-3 miles, it's time to go to assisted living...

 

[chris66]

DW and I used to live not too far from Hermann. We lived in Belleville and O'Fallon, IL a long time ago.

I have family in Belleville, IL. In O'Fallon, too, but the O'Fallon in Missouri. Hope you were able to make it to Hermann when you lived nearby.

 

[ziggy29]

I am increasingly attracted to a "walkable" lifestyle where owning a car isn't necessary. The problem is that nice walkable neighborhoods are very expensive, and then there is the noise issue. There are times when it seems like you might need a car or truck for specific trips or for hauling stuff, but you can rent a lot of cars and hire a lot of delivery services for the savings you achieve in not owning a car.

 

[Mulligan]

I grew up suburban, and lived in suburban settings when first on my own (mainly to be close to the office). I liked growing up suburban. In our neighborhood, all the kids played together and everyone knew each other (it seemed). However, as an adult, I began to prefer walkable neighborhoods, with more interesting things to do.

Our last house before retirement was in the arts district of Columbus, Ohio. It was definitely urban. I knew my neighbors, and there was a strong community spirit for those who wanted to get involved. We could walk nearly anywhere, although I drove for major shopping, as I wouldn't want to carry a 35 pound bag of dog food and all our other stuff Just a heads up: older folks moving to the cities for the first time might not feel comfortable around some of the variety of people they are likely to encounter in a thriving urban setting. There were aggressive panhandlers, homeless people, and we weren't that far from some sketchier neighborhoods. For us, we loved the neighborhood dearly, but did not consider it to be where we wanted to retire. There were a lot of reasons for this, but the cost of living was a factor (not just property taxes -- but lifestyle costs).

For retirement, we decided we still wanted a walkable neighborhood, but in a rural setting. So, I guess we're kinda urban-rural. We live on a hill overlooking a historic downtown (Hermann, MO). It's an old, walkable grid neighborhood, surrounded by farms --definitely rural. However, we can walk to parks, restaurants, coffee shops, bars, a farmers market, an amphitheater, pharmacy, doctors, 2 wineries, and a brewery, among other things. We're just the other side of the Missouri River from the Katy Trail. We can walk to the Amtrak station, and the town has OATS buses for elderly transportation. The hospital is just a few blocks away. Although there is a lot of winery tourism, the town is still developing. Homes are incredibly affordable, but it's pretty quiet in town in the evenings. It's not an urban lifestyle -- but then we're not that far from St. Louis for when we want to take in the city lights. Also, although we walk to all these places right now, we are at the top of a hill. It will keep us in great shape for now, but at some point will require us to stop walking sooner than in a flat area, because that hill will kick your butt. Then, we'll have to drive something into town, but it will be a short, easy drive. Well, and once we're really old, we'll mostly stay at home and just enjoy the view

I have been to Hermann quit often. You certainly described it accurately but I never thought of it in that manner. Just a nice little rural town of about what 2-3,000 in the middle of nowhere. Except during Octoberfest huh? I remember a friend of mine about 20 years ago getting thrown through one of those heavy glass fronted buildings downtown by a bar and getting to visit their little hospital. I guess he shouldn't have got drunk and ran his mouth to the wrong person!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Hmmmm. I hadn't thought of it that way.

I checked our area, and it seems there's not a tremendous $/SF difference to 'buy safety' in our downtown. It's just a couple of data points, and I'm sure it varies by region but, here's our data.

Median $/SF in one of the most popular suburbs: $141
Median $/SF for city as a whole: $104
Nice downtown condo in desirable & safe area: $148

As you can see from the $/SF, we are not in an expensive area on either of the coasts.

Huston55 - didn't you post you were moving to Marin sometime in the next year? It is going to be hard to leave those sq ft prices behind.

 

[chris66]

I have been to Hermann quit often. You certainly described it accurately but I never thought of it in that manner. Just a nice little rural town of about what 2-3,000 in the middle of nowhere. Except during Octoberfest huh? I remember a friend of mine about 20 years ago getting thrown through one of those heavy glass fronted buildings downtown by a bar and getting to visit their little hospital. I guess he shouldn't have got drunk and ran his mouth to the wrong person!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yeah, there are a lot of other festivals and wine trails that attract crowds, but Octoberfest is the big one. DH and I are used to big festivals, as there were a lot in our urban neighborhood in Columbus, too. In both neighborhoods, we liked being able to just walk in and take in some music and walk back home to use the bathroom.

But Oh, No! -- you didn't say in the middle of NOWHERE, now did you? I'll give you, it's some winding roads to get us home, and we don't have the big box stores. But it's 30 minutes to Washington for big box shopping, and an hour radius to St. Charles, Columbia, and Jefferson City. And then there's Amtrak to Chicago...

But yeah...I think a lot of folks think of this as out in the middle of nowhere. I get it. When I finally decided to go ahead and retire in March, as we moved some final things from an apartment (consulting job), I played this song in the car several times in a row:

Neil Young and Crazy Horse - Country Home (Live at Farm Aid 2012) - YouTube

 

[chris66]

Well, heck. Don't mean to get off topic, but I don't know how to embed a video so it plays in the thread. Tried a couple of things, but the best I can do is that link above. Tried searching and FAQ's, but couldn't find the way to do this here. I'm probably over thinking this. Any advice would be appreciated (don't want to keep editing to experiment further)

 

[Lancelot]

I'm considering returning to the USA and I'm wresting with the where to live dilemma. Cities offer more public transportation and walk friendly neighborhoods. Smaller rural towns offer lower cost of living and (some times) less traffic.

I' haven't owned a car for so long that I don't miss it but I do love to ride my motorcycle. On the other hand much of the US is devoid of public transportation, so that can be an issue as well.

I think I need to wander around a bit and see what strikes my fancy

 

[MichaelB]

Well, heck. Don't mean to get off topic, but I don't know how to embed a video so it plays in the thread. Tried a couple of things, but the best I can do is that link above. Tried searching and FAQ's, but couldn't find the way to do this here. I'm probably over thinking this. Any advice would be appreciated (don't want to keep editing to experiment further)

This thread will show you how to upload a video http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f32/new-feature-videos-63913.html

 

[Andre1969]

I guess I'm not all that concerned about a walkable neighborhood, because my guess is that I'm going to lose my ability to walk very far before I lose my ability to drive. Now, I don't want to have to drive 20 miles just to get to the nearest Piggly Wiggly, like some of my relatives down in Appalachia. But I'm pretty happy where I am. There's a Safeway, Giant, Shoppers Food Warehouse, and Superfresh all within maybe 3 miles. Several gas stations. And a couple large shopping malls within 10 miles.

It's less hassle for me to hop in the car and drive the 2 miles to Giant, get my groceries, come home, and park right at the door to unload, than it is for one of my friends in DC, who might ride his bike the one mile to Whole Paycheck -er, Whole Foods, pay twice as much for his groceries, and then risk his life and limb trying to balance those bags on the handlebars of his bike. Or, if he decides to drive, go get the car, most likely lose his parking spot, battle traffic, pay for parking, battle traffic back, hunt around for a parking spot, and then shuffle all those groceries back to his condo.

Now, it is nice being able to walk to a corner cafe, restaurant, etc. That's a luxury I don't have here in the burbs. I think the nearest place I can go to get food is the mini-mart at the Crown gas station, which is about a mile and a half away. Not the classiest place in the world...

 

[haha]

I think it is mostly a matter of taste and what someone likes. Even expensive fully urban neighborhoods have more violent crime than an expensive suburb. But not necessarily enough crime to make all people prefer to move to the suburbs. The lifestyle is completely different. I think the two most residentially dense districts in Seattle are #1 Capitol Hill, and #2 Ballard. Downtown has more and more residents, typically rich or poor. Ballard has greatly changed over the past 20 years, undergoing a multi-family building boom. It has much less diversity than Capitol Hill and especially the surroundings areas to capitol Hill, and Ballard also has much less crime. people who like walkable living but maybe less intense than downtown or Capitol Hill may prefer Ballard.

I've just finished 2 years with no car, and basically I rarely even ride buses any longer, I mostly walk. The Pike Place Market and central downtown and 95% of the big hospitals, a large university and a very large Community College are all less than a 30' walk from my home. A Lake Washington Swimming beach is about 45' for me, less for my sons, but all these destinations also have good bus service. When I was looking around I looked at communities a little farther out, but decided that I want to be able to go places whenever I want, and not need to plan my day around bus service., wanting to eat mostly at home, etc. I can go home for lunch or dinner, and then go out again without losing too much time or getting worn out. And parking downtown or on Capitol Hill is very expensive, and central Ballard is getting there too.

Clearly many people feel the same way, as rents in these central communities have grown rapidly, much more rapidly than surrounding areas. I am not going to walk home from down on the waterfront at midnight, but I also don't have to.

Nevertheless, many people would not be happy here. That is why god made suburbs.

Ha

 

[Huston55]

Huston55 - didn't you post you were moving to Marin sometime in the next year? It is going to be hard to leave those sq ft prices behind.

Yep, moving to Marin early next year.

If we buy, we'd have to settle for 5X the price or ~20% of the space, or some combo of the two.

Actually, we plan to rent, which lowers the multiplier a bit. But, we will still move into a smaller place to defray cost.

Fortunately, there are just two of us...and a little Corgi. <[,.=.,] So, we don't need much space.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Yep, moving to Marin early next year.

If we buy, we'd have to settle for 5X the price or ~20% of the space, or some combo of the two.

Actually, we plan to rent, which lowers the multiplier a bit. But, we will still move into a smaller place to defray cost.

Fortunately, there are just two of us...and a little Corgi. <[,.=.,] So, we don't need much space.

Renting is probably the most cost effective financial move in the current market here, especially with housing being in a likely bubble again.

 

[JoeWras]

I grew up urban. The noise and crime drove me away. We did like being able to walk places. I miss that.

I think about it now. I'd miss my garden -- but maybe not if I can find a place with a terrace or patio.

I am freaked out about bedbugs. I'd rather not share a wall with someone's bugs. Did that early in life and it was ugly. Nothing like getting your hoarder-neighbor's roaches.

I'll still consider it though as we eventually transition from our 3 story home.

 

[Walt34]

I'd rather not share a wall with someone's bugs. Did that early in life and it was ugly. Nothing like getting your hoarder-neighbor's roaches.

Ah, yes I have "fond" memories of same. It's the reason I'll live in a permanently parked travel trailer before I live in an apartment again.

 

[Khufu]

The problem with aging in the suburbs is what happens when you can no longer drive safely. My father had three car accidents in his late 80's, all of which he recognized were his fault, before we could talk him into giving up his license and moving into town. He can now walk to restaurants and supermarkets and take buses elsewhere. He wouldn't be able to keep his house in the suburbs without being able to drive. It's a mistake to assume you will be to go on driving indefinitely.

 

[In-control]

We live in Central MA and will be focusing on easy access to bikeways. They give you easy access to things. You can be 5+ miles outside of town and pay less rent and have all the benefits of both worlds. It is also a trend now to make urban area's more walker and biker friendly.

I grew up in the suburbs of NYC where everything was in easy walking distance. Lots of nice parks, public transportation etc. What I remember is no connections -everyone was too busy or just renting for a few years then gone. The constant noise and poor air quality really got old.

For us a college town(not city) or something 5 to 10 miles out of a city works best.

Check this out
http://www.topretirements.com/blog/...biking.html/?awt_l=KvPNM&awt_m=Jxt.oHMllBaAA4

 

[JoeWras]

The problem with aging in the suburbs is what happens when you can no longer drive safely. My father had three car accidents in his late 80's, all of which he recognized were his fault, before we could talk him into giving up his license and moving into town. He can now walk to restaurants and supermarkets and take buses elsewhere. He wouldn't be able to keep his house in the suburbs without being able to drive. It's a mistake to assume you will be to go on driving indefinitely.

It is also a mistake to think you can walk indefinitely. Especially moderate distances like a few blocks down to the restaurant.

My dad's ability to do both went out about the same time in the late 80s.

Just sayin'