Short Term UBI

[harley]

Schoolhouse Rock.

 

[GTFan]

I haven't read in depth about all these proposals floating around, but the latest one referenced in post #58, well, I don't agree with everyone automatically getting a check. There are people who aren't experiencing any loss of income right now. Some probably won't, like the health care workers, first responders, etc. Retired people who are getting regular income through Social Security, pensions.

If this passed, in our household, DH and I would get $2,400. DS would get $2,100. None of us have had a loss or reduction in income. DS works in an essential business that cannot shut down (nursing home). DH's employer could be mandated to shut down. If so, he would qualify for unemployment under the new Ohio guidelines, but it's also possible his employer might continue to pay everyone for awhile.

DD is the one who has had a severe reduction in her hours at Panera Bread. Yet she would get nothing because she couldn't work in 2018 due to a medical problem that required major foot surgery, a lengthy convalescence, and physical therapy to learn to walk again. Just her rotten luck, I guess, but the rest of us would be paid money that we don't need. Ridiculous!

Along with anyone who may have entered the work force for the first time in 2019. I'm sure there are a lot of them out there who are hurting right now who also won't qualify for a payment.

Again, expediency. They can't identify/negotiate all this given the need to blow out the money (and don't want to).

 

[dd564]

Any signs of this being UBI are largely disappearing.
Any initial proposal had a monthly payment. It appears much of what is being proposed is a one time payment, or maybe a two time payment, but not monthly UBI.

For those who get it, I assume much of it will be spent on the regular monthly bills and car payment.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

I *think* they would reconcile at tax time, such that if you didn't get a check right away you would be able to get a "check" at tax time.

I mean 2018 is 2 years ago. Seems silly to base current needs on your situation 2 years ago. Some could have lost a lot of money in 2019 (it would have been really hard to do that though).

Also hurts young people that went out into the workforce in the last year or two, from either high school or college. Probably not a lot of income in 2018.

 

[SpinDoctorTX]

That’s what we’re going to do.

Our plan too. We've relatives who will need help, and we will.

 

[wildbilly]

required restrictions

I believe that any money should be in a coupon form like food stamps. That goes for unemployment or any other social money program. That way you can't purchase alcohol, cell phone service, soda /pop, candy, anything that is not essential. That is nothing that isn't necessary to physically live and you know what I mean. This unfortunately creates more bureaucracy

 

[harley]

I suspect there are a lot of things you would want to buy that wouldn't be allowed under your regime. Personally I find Diet Pepsi to be an essential item. For you it might be coffee. Cell phone service is many people's only way to keep in touch with family and friends since so many no longer have land lines. I think it's better to allow people to have some freedom of choice than to try to have someone else deciding what's important for everyone.

 

[dd564]

I believe that any money should be in a coupon form like food stamps. That goes for unemployment or any other social money program. That way you can't purchase alcohol, cell phone service, soda /pop, candy, anything that is not essential. That is nothing that isn't necessary to physically live and you know what I mean. This unfortunately creates more bureaucracy

But why?

Why do you want to regulate what people consume?

Do you know what that would do for mental health of those people if they can't choose soda pop if they want it or gatorade?

Why can't an adult enjoy a legal adult beverage?
No cellphone coverage? How will they get a job if they can't send a resume electronically or answer a phone interview?

Should poor people who work not be allowed these items to help them better manage their finances?

What a strange and tortuous system you are suggesting which at it's very best would be difficult to manage.

Weirdest post I've read all day on any forum.

 

[dd564]

I suspect there are a lot of things you would want to buy that wouldn't be allowed under your regime. Personally I find Diet Pepsi to be an essential item. For you it might be coffee. Cell phone service is many people's only way to keep in touch with family and friends since so many no longer have land lines. I think it's better to allow people to have some freedom of choice than to try to have someone else deciding what's important for everyone.

Evidently he wants to make sure anyone on food stamps can't do a phone interview.

That in turn will be better because.... I have no idea.

 

[Sunset]

I believe that any money should be in a coupon form like food stamps. That goes for unemployment or any other social money program. That way you can't purchase alcohol, cell phone service, soda /pop, candy, anything that is not essential. That is nothing that isn't necessary to physically live and you know what I mean. This unfortunately creates more bureaucracy

Don't be so generous.
Really the best thing would be to hand out to each adult:

• 30lb sacks of rice,
• 20lbs of flour,
• 20lbs of dried beans,
• 3lbs of salt,
• 3lbs of sugar, and
• 5lbs of powdered milk

I might have forgotten something, but this way nobody is going to buy the wrong stuff and you know they are getting food.

 

[dd564]

Don't be so generous.
Really the best thing would be to hand out to each adult:

• 30lb sacks of rice,
• 20lbs of flour,
• 20lbs of dried beans,
• 3lbs of salt,
• 3lbs of sugar, and
• 5lbs of powdered milk

I might have forgotten something, but this way nobody is going to buy the wrong stuff and you know they are getting food.

Don't give them too much at once otherwise they may start selling it for profit to buy a cellphone or a beer.

 

[Trooper]

I might have forgotten something...

Yeah...toilet paper![emoji4]

 

[Fermion]

You give people enough money to buy a few luxuries like gatorade because you want them to feel happy.

This way you can get in your Tesla model S and drive to your vacation property without too much worry of running into road gangs.

 

[38Chevy454]

Don't be so generous.
Really the best thing would be to hand out to each adult:

• 30lb sacks of rice,
• 20lbs of flour,
• 20lbs of dried beans,
• 3lbs of salt,
• 3lbs of sugar, and
• 5lbs of powdered milk

I might have forgotten something, but this way nobody is going to buy the wrong stuff and you know they are getting food.

Remember the gov't cheese handouts?

 

[Tiger8693]

So assistance should be without any conditions or controls? How bout drugs? Ok to let them use it for heroin? I mean addicts would find that as essential I'm sure. And before you post about that being the extreme, its just the "other side" of the extreme that some of you propose.

 

[gwraigty]

I believe that any money should be in a coupon form like food stamps. That goes for unemployment or any other social money program. That way you can't purchase alcohol, cell phone service, soda /pop, candy, anything that is not essential. That is nothing that isn't necessary to physically live and you know what I mean. This unfortunately creates more bureaucracy

Cell phone service can be a necessity if it's the only phone service you have. Many people have dumped landlines. We haven't had a landline in years. Our cell phone service is dirt cheap though. Prepaid with Tello.

 

[Fermion]

So assistance should be without any conditions or controls? How bout drugs? Ok to let them use it for heroin? I mean addicts would find that as essential I'm sure. And before you post about that being the extreme, its just the "other side" of the extreme that some of you propose.

Don't jest, they are doing that in Seattle, or talking about it (having heroin clinics)

 

[Fermion]

I would much rather have a little short term UBI go out than have to worry about theft or worse because a large portion of the population is not happy with their lot in life.

Right now I am damn thankful that someone is willing to risk their life with this virus by working for $11 an hour at Wal-Mart restocking all of the luxuries that we can afford. I don't worry about getting attacked as I push my loaded cart out to our truck. I would like to keep it that way.

 

[MRG]

Don't be so generous.
Really the best thing would be to hand out to each adult:

• 30lb sacks of rice,
• 20lbs of flour,
• 20lbs of dried beans,
• 3lbs of salt,
• 3lbs of sugar, and
• 5lbs of powdered milk

I might have forgotten something, but this way nobody is going to buy the wrong stuff and you know they are getting food.

Sugar + the yeast made from flour + water =?

 

[dd564]

So assistance should be without any conditions or controls? How bout drugs? Ok to let them use it for heroin? I mean addicts would find that as essential I'm sure. And before you post about that being the extreme, its just the "other side" of the extreme that some of you propose.

I'm a fan of the UBI model. Everyone gets the same baseline.

But take a step back from that. Yes. Everyone should get X amount for them to have the choice on what's best to spend it for themselves.

They need to be able to self-invest in their own decisions and see the benefit / cost of it.

If I buy meat, maybe I don't get hungry as often and I can get by with less.

If I want to be vegan, I know I really like these foods and I'd sooner buy 2 avocodos than 10 lbs of rice.

Some will make bad decisions and buy alcohol, but I don't know if that needle moves much. I think alcoholics will find it whichever way with or without restrictions. I guess I'm saying the more government restrictions, the less efficient the model is at getting $$$ into people's hands who could use it.
I trust the alcoholic to self-ration better than the government.

Regarding drugs, that's a whole different issue, but I'm on board with having shoot-up centers to help wean people off heroin. Again, a whole different topic. But yes, if they want to spend their money on heroin instead of food, I'm not going to restrict that. The consequences are deadly but I only trust the government so much to really aid that solution.

We've been fighting a "war on drugs" since the 1980's and we've failed as badly as anyone really could for 40 years.

 

[Tiger8693]

I'm a fan of the UBI model. Everyone gets the same baseline.

But take a step back from that. Yes. Everyone should get X amount for them to have the choice on what's best to spend it for themselves.

They need to be able to self-invest in their own decisions and see the benefit / cost of it.

If I buy meat, maybe I don't get hungry as often and I can get by with less.

If I want to be vegan, I know I really like these foods and I'd sooner buy 2 avocodos than 10 lbs of rice.

Some will make bad decisions and buy alcohol, but I don't know if that needle moves much. I think alcoholics will find it whichever way with or without restrictions. I guess I'm saying the more government restrictions, the less efficient the model is at getting $$$ into people's hands who could use it.
I trust the alcoholic to self-ration better than the government.

Regarding drugs, that's a whole different issue, but I'm on board with having shoot-up centers to help wean people off heroin. Again, a whole different topic. But yes, if they want to spend their money on heroin instead of food, I'm not going to restrict that. The consequences are deadly but I only trust the government so much to really aid that solution.

We've been fighting a "war on drugs" since the 1980's and we've failed as badly as anyone really could for 40 years.

Agree, self determination. But that can be done without taking from those who make good decisions to give to those that make bad ones.

 

[dd564]

Agree, self determination. But that can be done without taking from those who make good decisions to give to those that make bad ones.

I quit making the connection of government spending = raising taxes.


The way we rely on an ever growing deficit, I think most of our economy is just a legal ponzi scheme.

Sure, taxes might go up and down, but I don't worry about tax increases that much anymore.

 

[Tiger8693]

I quit making the connection of government spending = raising taxes.


The way we rely on an ever growing deficit, I think most of our economy is just a legal ponzi scheme.

Sure, taxes might go up and down, but I don't worry about tax increases that much anymore.

Good for you! Go ahead and send more in. I'll continue to tax plan and vote accordingly.

 

[USGrant1962]

You give people enough money to buy a few luxuries like gatorade because you want them to feel happy.

This way you can get in your Tesla model S and drive to your vacation property without too much worry of running into road gangs.

We actually picked up some Gatorade because it is a good source for electrolytes when you get sick. Of course DW bought the sugar free stuff, which is sub-optimal, if sick you can use the calories too.

 

[harley]

Don't be so generous.
Really the best thing would be to hand out to each adult:

• 30lb sacks of rice,
• 20lbs of flour,
• 20lbs of dried beans,
• 3lbs of salt,
• 3lbs of sugar, and
• 5lbs of powdered milk

I might have forgotten something, but this way nobody is going to buy the wrong stuff and you know they are getting food.

Don't forget to force them to eat oranges so they don't get rickets.

We've been fighting a "war on drugs" since the 1980's and we've failed as badly as anyone really could for 40 years.

Just to be pedantic, it was since 1971. I remember Tricky Dick announcing it on TV.