Spreads so easily......

Status
Not open for further replies.
FIREd said:
My mother was transferred today to the COVID unit of our local hospital. She has no idea how she caught COVID but it was while she was hospitalized for knee replacement surgery. She's annoyed as she's been so very careful since the pandemic started (obsessively so one might say). Visits have been tightly restricted since she was admitted to the hospital 2 weeks ago and the staff always wore masks and washed their hands with sanitizer when attending her. And yet, here we are.
Click to expand...

I do hope your mother recovers quickly with no lasting effects. God bless her!

Thinking of my own situation, I too try to avoid as much contact as I can reasonably avoid. Right now, I'm putting off some needed dental work (I have a bridge that I'm certain is becoming loose after 20+ years.) Unless there is pain or loss of the bridge, I'm pretty much committed to just toughing it out for a while longer.

Locally, we are in quite a state of flux - what with tourists returning and entering tier 2 reopening. Can't say I'm paranoid, but I'm being more careful. With age and other issues, it seems wise to simply make "avoidance" a policy to the extent possible. As always, we have to make our own decisions on these matters because YMMV.
 
FIREd said:
My mother was transferred today to the COVID unit of our local hospital. She has no idea how she caught COVID but it was while she was hospitalized for knee replacement surgery. She's annoyed as she's been so very careful since the pandemic started (obsessively so one might say). Visits have been tightly restricted since she was admitted to the hospital 2 weeks ago and the staff always wore masks and washed their hands with sanitizer when attending her. And yet, here we are.
Click to expand...

Oh no! Hope she recovers swiftly and with no impacts. :( That sucks that she was so careful and then got it in the hospital.
 
FIREd said:
My mother was transferred today to the COVID unit of our local hospital. She has no idea how she caught COVID but it was while she was hospitalized for knee replacement surgery. She's annoyed as she's been so very careful since the pandemic started (obsessively so one might say). Visits have been tightly restricted since she was admitted to the hospital 2 weeks ago and the staff always wore masks and washed their hands with sanitizer when attending her. And yet, here we are.
Click to expand...

Wow - that’s really a tough break! So frustrating to be exposed in a hospital - I would also be highly annoyed. I hope she does well. Please keep us informed.
 
audreyh1 said:
Wow - that’s really a tough break! So frustrating to be exposed in a hospital - I would also be highly annoyed. I hope she does well. Please keep us informed.
Click to expand...
+1

I'm going for a routine physical tomorrow, which I normally wouldn't do, but in order to be considered "an existing patient", I must. Which is another annoying thing.

The goal is mainly to be able to get quick and effective action if I come down with Covid-19 symptoms from someone who has my medical history already. And right now, because my PCP went to another practice (farther away and not covered by insurance) plus because I haven't been there in so long, I've fallen off the existing patients list. And so to get back on, and have access to virtual visits and the stuff on the online portal, I've got to raise my status by showing up, physically.

Wouldn't it be "just great" if I go in to just so I'm prepared for the worst case, then they give me "the worst case" :facepalm:
 
sengsational said:
I'm going for a routine physical tomorrow, which I normally wouldn't do, but in order to be considered "an existing patient", I must. Which is another annoying thing.
Click to expand...

Sounds like more bureaucracy at work.
I've run into the same problem with the VA healthcare system. In order to be considered an existing patient you have to have been seen there within the past two years. Seems like they could just let you reconfirm your information online and count that as a visit.
 
braumeister said:
Sounds like more bureaucracy at work.

I've run into the same problem with the VA healthcare system. In order to be considered an existing patient you have to have been seen there within the past two years. Seems like they could just let you reconfirm your information online and count that as a visit.
Click to expand...



It’s because they get a $2500 allocation for each patient on their role at their facility.
 
Koolau said:
If I'm making a point, it would be that there seemed to be some of us (me included) that were just immune. By the way, I do not believe nor do I act as if believe I'm immune to Covid. I wonder if there are folks like that now who, even if exposed simply do not get sick. Where does such an immunity come from?
Click to expand...
It could be that people are not so much immune, but that they just do not get sick enough to have symptoms that are serious enough to make them think about getting tested. Therefore, they don't show up in the population of cases or recoveries, but at the present time, are highly unlikely to be at risk for getting Covid-19 again. It's also possible that these individuals start out by getting a lower dose of the virus to begin with.

My own view on this is that it could these are the folks with very healthy immune systems. One potential direct cause for this is strong blood levels for vitamin D. There are numerous retrospective studies published that have found a strong co-relational link between "good" vitamin D levels and better health outcomes from Covid, as well as other diseases. Missing from the research to date are any randomized controlled trials (with one exception) that could determine how strong the link is and maybe allow us to set some policies around strengthening our body's innate immune response.

Note: The one exception was for hospitalizations where mega-doses of vitamin D were administered to patients upon first presenting with Covid-19. The study found the treatment to be effective, but only for the early phase of the disease.
 
According to this paper, published yesterday in Nature, the virus has mutated and become more infectious. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41...=organic&utm_campaign=NGMT_USG_JC01_GL_Nature From the abstract
A spike protein mutation D614G became dominant in SARS-CoV-2 during the COVID-19 pandemic1,2. However, the impact on viral spread and vaccine efficacy remains to be defined. Here, we engineer the D614G mutation in the USA-WA1/2020 strain and characterize its effect. D614G enhances replication on human lung epithelial cells and primary human airway tissues through an improved infectivity of virions. Hamsters infected with the G614 variant produced higher infectious titers in the nasal washes and trachea, but not lungs, confirming clinical evidence that the D614G mutation enhances viral loads in the upper respiratory tract of COVID-19 patients and may increases transmission.
Click to expand...
 
I wonder when they think that mutation occurred?

OK looks like just before March and dominant by June.
For SARS-CoV-2, analyses of over 28,000 spike gene sequences in May 2020 revealed a D614G amino acid substitution that was rare before March but increased in frequency as the pandemic spread, reaching over 74% of all published sequences by June 2020.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
braumeister said:
Looking at it from the virus's point of view, you would ideally want mutations that make it more infectious but less lethal.
Click to expand...

From a pure Darwinian "survival of the fittest" approach, you would expect any virus to mutate to the point it can live in the host, but not kill the host, like the common cold (NO, I am NOT saying the two are the same)
 
Koolau said:
I survived the pandemic of '56/'57. I was in 5th grade and recall looking around the room noticing 1/3 to 1/2 the class was out. In those days (in dose days) we took no precautions - never washed our hands - until mom scolded me to wash up for supper. There was no thought of canceling school. No one ever heard of masks except on 'doctor shows' on TV. It was as if some of us were immune for some reason.

Same thing happened in '68/69. I was finishing Sr. year at university. I was struggling, failing a class in my major and spending 30 hours a week in a lab just to survive. I was falling into a deep depression. I wasn't eating. I wasn't sleeping. No one took precautions, social distanced or wore masks - or even used the fume hoods. It seemed everyone was sick and then the lab was empty except for a few of us who didn't get sick.

If I'm making a point, it would be that there seemed to be some of us (me included) that were just immune. By the way, I do not believe nor do I act as if believe I'm immune to Covid. I wonder if there are folks like that now who, even if exposed simply do not get sick. Where does such an immunity come from? Since my mom survived the Spanish flu, I wonder if that could be transmitted all those years later.

I agree that Covid must spread easily. But it seems to skip some people. IF we could ever figure out how some folks are just immune, maybe it would be instructive in dealing with the pandemic. Okay, I'm done speculating and reminiscing. Now returning you to our regularly scheduled discussion since YMMV.
Click to expand...

"IF we could ever figure out how some folks are just immune,"

Maybe they aren't precisely immune, they don't show the symptoms but are the carriers of the disease. That's what I read about.
 
I saw my primary doctor last month on a video visit.

I'm good.
 
Looking at the various 'new infection curves' across US states and foreign countries, it is apparent how little we REALLY know about how the virus spreads in real world populations. With all the different approaches individual states & nations take and have taken, there is far less than solid correlation between the imposition (and continuation) of various infection control measures and the predicted/expected rise or fall in new cases. I could list a number of examples and published studies to illustrate the point, but REAL WORLD experience quite often does NOT closely follow what lab data would predict. For example proper masks work FAR better in the lab than in real life where way too many folks leave their nose uncovered or wear masks as chin diapers....or simply refuse to wear them at all. And true social distancing is pretty widely ignored.

Personally- I assume EVERYONE ELSE is infectious and act accordingly. With estimates of active (not total) infection now at over 1% of the population in my region, this is NOT 'germophobia', just common sense. Luckily my area still has plenty of hospital & ICU beds, but I have NO desire to occupy either one. I am not a healthy 18 yr old anymore.
I go out as little as possible, and then always with the best masks I can find (typically industrial (non-medical) N95 that fit me well). Frequent hand hygeine. No indoor gatherings, and outdoors only small groups with 100% proper social distancing. NO restaurants or bars. I will get take out from time to time from selected vendors who properly mask/socially distance. Better half & I buy groceries ONLY at local stores where employees AND CUSTOMERS are observing proper masking/social distancing, and we go at off hours so fewer customers. We exercise outdoors (avoiding other people), or in our own home (no gyms). Getting lots of projects done around the house that I've been putting off for years.
And waiting patiently.... hoping that Operation Warp Speed is soon successful in helping deliver a reasonably effective and safe vaccine.
 
braumeister said:
Looking at it from the virus's point of view, you would ideally want mutations that make it more infectious but less lethal.
Click to expand...
I see that you prescribe to the Lamarkian theory of evolution. Example: Giraffes evolved with longer and longer necks because they could easier access food (leaves on trees) when they stretched their short necks (the giraffes "point of view") They then passed this mutation to their offspring who did the same until all giraffes had long necks.


Mutations are random concerning their usefulness. They will pass this to offspring if they are beneficial to their survival or have no detrimental effects. Mutations are not directed by the environment to a specific goal. Instead mutations occur and are passed to offspring when they allow a better chance at survival.


Cheers
 
Badger said:
I see that you prescribe to the Lamarkian theory of evolution.
...
mutations occur and are passed to offspring when they allow a better chance at survival.
Click to expand...

You didn't understand my post. And it's Lamarckian.

Maybe look at the post above from CardsFan, which said exactly what I said, in different words.
 
braumeister said:
You didn't understand my post. And it's Lamarckian.

Maybe look at the post above from CardsFan, which said exactly what I said, in different words.
Click to expand...


Typing fast


I guess I didn't understand your post. When people say things like "from a virus's point of view" it sends up a red flag.


Cheers!
 
Badger said:
I guess I didn't understand your post. When people say things like "from a virus's point of view" it sends up a red flag.
Click to expand...

It really shouldn't (IMO); that's a common expression and has nothing to do with Lamarckism. What I (and I think most others) mean by that phrase is "the best mutations for long term survival of the virus genome".

Darwin died 138 years ago and how evolution works is still not clear to many people. I think that shows how slippery the concept is.
 
This is a very good article about the spread of COVID, superspreaders and the dispersion factor, by Zeyneb Tufekci in the Atlantic. It’s a few weeks old but the most comprehensive overview I’ve seen to date.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/

Most (80%) of the spread is apparently caused by a small (20%) number of infected carriers, and apparently most of the remaining infected individuals don’t infect others. She goes into much more detail and provides good links. It does help understand some of the outbreaks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom