Stainless Steel and Shark Fittings

[target2019]

The picture shows a problem we've had for 25 years. There is a water supply to toilet on first floor which comes up through a concrete slab. The stainless steel pipe O.D. measures more than 5/8-in (or 10/16-in) but less than 11/16-inch.

I think this 5/8-in pipe is actually sweated onto a 1/2-inch copper supply. This is somewhat discernible in the picture. I also think it is stainless steel.

On the pipe is a supply valve with 3/8-in threads for a typical 3/8 x 7/8 connection to the toilet. This is shown in the inset.

There is a drip from around the stem. Each time I've used this valve, say 6 times in 25 years, this drip occurs but eventually stops. Since this time could be different and the drip may not stop, I'm thinking ahead to what I may need to do very soon. These are my options if I have to take action to stop the drip:

1) Shut off main and try to remove the packing nut and re-pack.
2) Cut off old valve and use a sharkbite solution. There is about 4-5" to work with on the pipe.
3) Call a plumber.

Even if I decide on #3 I want to make sure that I know exactly what is going on with the material composition to make a good decision.

So I am looking for useful information, not necessarily posts that say call a plumber. I do understand that notion.

Thank you for your help, all.

 

[pjigar]

I have had good luck with sharkbite. I used it on main line coming up the slab into house. Get genuine sharkbite and not a knock off. Double check OD before cutting.

 

[OldShooter]

If the leak is at the shaft it is the packing that is at fault. Unless the jam nut is siezed, this is the cheapest and easiest of repairs. When I do this job I use Teflon packing because it will cold flow and IMO make a better seal than fiber packing. I am not hampered by any actual fact to support this opinion, however.

Clean out the old packing patiently and thoroughly. I usually use a sharp machinist's scribe. I also carefully clean the valve stem. Crud on the stem is death to a good packing seal.

 

[skipro33]

I recommend taking your photo to the local Home Depot and find an old dude who works there and show it to him. I'm sure he'll have an easy solution for you.


Also, I'm willing to bet that SS pipe is threaded to a 90 degree adapter to copper pipe. You can't 'sweat' copper to stainless. Stainless will not wick solder. You might want to remove that RTV at the floor and see what you can see. Might just need a pipe wrench, AKA monkey wrench, and remove the whole pipe and valve, replace both with something that looks nicer. The one you have is low on nickel from the rust showing.


There's a reason plumbing is copper and not steel, even stainless. As you can see, the outside of that pipe has rust. Imagine what the inside looks like you you'll understand why plumbing is not normally steel. Commercial public restrooms are, but only because they chrome their steel pipes and it's not drinking water.

 

[Sunset]

You have a nice progression of possiblities here:
I would do:
1) Shut off main and try to remove the packing nut and re-pack.

This is easiest, a friend once suggested to me to just go to HD and buy a replacement one and swap the stems. But I don't know if you can find one, otherwise pack it yourself.

Should that fail, then go to 2) cut the pipe and use a sharkbite to join (I've never used these so cannot comment).

I'd suggest you start this on a Monday, so you have time to do 1) then 2) and it's still a weekday by the time you call a plumber

 

[Scrapr]

not apropro of anything you asked. We had this same toilet shut off (doesn't everyone?) & it leaked 2x's in about 5 years. The 2nd time we had the plumber install a quarter turn ball valve. My feeling was this way it's on or off quickly. We sold the house shortly after (cut & run?)

 

[Scrapr]

I'd suggest you start this on a Monday, so you have time to do 1) then 2) and it's still a weekday by the time you call a plumber

I started a plumbing project at 5:00 pm on a Friday. That didn't go well with the Mrs

 

[JoeWras]

Agree with above suggestions to repack. It isn't that hard. Everything doesn't have to be remove and replace.

I'm hearing an echo from bogleheads. This same topic is popular there too. Seems like people are hell bent on replacing and not repacking. I've had some PMs over there trying to convince otherwise.

 

[calmloki]

.......

This is easiest, a friend once suggested to me to just go to HD and buy a replacement one and swap the stems

.........

What Sunset said: Have had some luck with this method - buy all the valves that look similar and return the ones that you learn really aren't when you can compare them side by side. Then replace the stem, gland nut and packing as a unit. Doubt that is stainless, but rather crappy chrome coating, so dubious about a sharkbite fitting, uhh, fitting. Also suspect it is threaded into a fitting slightly below the flooring surface but hate to disturb joints that aren't leaking.

 

[latexman]

You probably have done this already, but have you tightened the nut on the valve? I usually tighten it 1/4 turn or less at a time. That compresses the old packing and may solve the dripping and extend the life between packing changes.

Or, is it bottomed out now? Does't look bottomed out.

 

[OldShooter]

You probably have done this already, but have you tightened the nut on the valve? I usually tighten it 1/4 turn or less at a time. That compresses the old packing and may solve the dripping and extend the life between packing changes.

Good point. That's actually the first thing I try before I go to work on the packing. Sometimes I get lucky.

 

[Bamaman]

If the incoming pipe is 1/2 inch, Lowes has a Sharkbite 1/2 inch to 3/8 inch valve for $9.98. It's Item #818124 Model #23037LFZC

 

[OldShooter]

You guys blow me away with all the proposals of major surgery.

1) Try tightening the nut as @latexman suggested.

2) Carefully and thoroughly re-do the packing.

3) Only then consider surgery. Since the pipe comes up out of a slab and seems to have some kind of sleeve, there is potential to mess things up to the point of having to go into the slab. Although I am a confirmed DIY guy, that might be the point where I call a plumber.

Wild guess: Could the sleeve be loose/just a chromed cosmetic cover for the copper? BTW the rust on that sleeve tells me it's almost certainly not stainless. Even 430 does not rust like that in my experience.

 

[Ronstar]

You have a nice progression of possiblities here:
I would do:
1) Shut off main and try to remove the packing nut and re-pack.

This is easiest, a friend once suggested to me to just go to HD and buy a replacement one and swap the stems. But I don't know if you can find one, otherwise pack it yourself.

Should that fail, then go to 2) cut the pipe and use a sharkbite to join (I've never used these so cannot comment).

I'd suggest you start this on a Monday, so you have time to do 1) then 2) and it's still a weekday by the time you call a plumber

This is the way that I would attack it.

I've had good luck with sharkbite. Don't know if sharkbite fittings come in 5/8" though. I've only used 1/2".

 

[pb4uski]

You guys blow me away with all the proposals of major surgery.

1) Try tightening the nut as @latexman suggested.

2) Carefully and thoroughly re-do the packing.

3) Only then consider surgery. Since the pipe comes up out of a slab and seems to have some kind of sleeve, there is potential to mess things up to the point of having to go into the slab. Although I am a confirmed DIY guy, that might be the point where I call a plumber.

Wild guess: Could the sleeve be loose/just a chromed cosmetic cover for the copper? BTW the rust on that sleeve tells me it's almost certainly not stainless. Even 430 does not rust like that in my experience.

+1 with all of the above... the rust in the picture suggests to me that it is not stainless steel.

Sometimes it also works to loosen the nut a little and then tighten it.

If you do get to #3, you could cut it off 1/2" below the valve and take it to a plumbing store to get the right sized Sharkbite.

 

[target2019]

You probably have done this already, but have you tightened the nut on the valve? I usually tighten it 1/4 turn or less at a time. That compresses the old packing and may solve the dripping and extend the life between packing changes.

Or, is it bottomed out now? Does't look bottomed out.

There are a number of good ideas in this thread. For now I'm focusing on the steel pipe. I will clean up the connection around the bottom of the pipe for a closer look later today.

I can't see if this nut is bottomed out or not. I know that when I tried to loosen it there was no movement in either direction. There is very little room to work on this, which is typical of toilet water supply.

If I understand what I'm looking at, there is also a compression fitting on supply side of valve.

 

[folivier]

Those type of valves are notorious for leaking if they are operated. Best is to replace it with a ball valve. BTW I agree the stainless is probably chrome plated.

 

[latexman]

I can't see if this nut is bottomed out or not. I know that when I tried to loosen it there was no movement in either direction.

It's just stuck with age and etc. Use two wrenches, one on the packing nut and one on the valve body, and put the "qua-e-tise" to it. Position the wrenches so they are offset a little so when you squeeze them together you are loosening the packing nut. I know there's little room to work under there, but once it's broke free, you should be able to feel/see what you got. Typical troubleshooting, one step at a time to see what the next step is.

Have you Googled some useful YouTube videos? Must be dozens of them.

 

[calmloki]

This video is about 2 minute too long, but covers everything EXCEPT keeping the valve stable while tightening the packing nut. Don't make more problems for yourself by twisting or breaking the valve loose from that supply side chromed pipe; give the valve body some support counter to your tightening with a second wrench.

When opening or closing those valves to the "use" position I make a point of leaving them about a 1/4 turn from hard stop open or closed. Seems to reduce leak incidents.

If a little snugging doesn't fix it then I go back to replacing the stem, packing, and packing nut as a unit; leaving the valve body in place by buying a $5 valve and cannibalizing the guts.

Edit: what latexman said. Your valve supporting wrench will be in an awkward position, but that's why you get the big bucks plumberman!

 

[OldShooter]

... If a little snugging doesn't fix it then I go back to replacing the stem, packing, and packing nut as a unit; leaving the valve body in place by buying a $5 valve and cannibalizing the guts ...

Why? Unless the stem is badly corroded, a simple repacking job should solve the problem. Even with some corrosion, using teflon and tightening the packing nut after the valve is opened may well solve it. If not, then incremental steps/more drastic surgery can always be done. Next step if repacking fails would be what you are suggesting.

Something else I don't think I've seen mentioned is the compression connection on the line from the valve to the toilet. If the valve is changed out, that line may be too short, too long, or the (used) compression sleeve might leak. Then the OP gets to replace the line and experience the joy of dealing with (probably) two compression fittings. IMO they are the work of the devil.

 

[finnski1]

The picture shows a problem we've had for 25 years. There is a water supply to toilet on first floor which comes up through a concrete slab. The stainless steel pipe O.D. measures more than 5/8-in (or 10/16-in) but less than 11/16-inch.

I think this 5/8-in pipe is actually sweated onto a 1/2-inch copper supply. This is somewhat discernible in the picture. I also think it is stainless steel.

On the pipe is a supply valve with 3/8-in threads for a typical 3/8 x 7/8 connection to the toilet. This is shown in the inset.

There is a drip from around the stem. Each time I've used this valve, say 6 times in 25 years, this drip occurs but eventually stops. Since this time could be different and the drip may not stop, I'm thinking ahead to what I may need to do very soon. These are my options if I have to take action to stop the drip:

1) Shut off main and try to remove the packing nut and re-pack.
2) Cut off old valve and use a sharkbite solution. There is about 4-5" to work with on the pipe.
3) Call a plumber.

Even if I decide on #3 I want to make sure that I know exactly what is going on with the material composition to make a good decision.

So I am looking for useful information, not necessarily posts that say call a plumber. I do understand that notion.

Thank you for your help, all.

Do the simple steps others have outlined. By the way that is almost certainly just plain 1/2 inch pipe which typically has an OD of 5/8 of an inch and therefore should fit a standard Sharkbite shut off should you get to that point. Highly unlikely anything is stainless on there as well.They are usually just chrome plated copper or brass.
I just redid an entire bathroom myself and put in a Sharkbite 1/2 inch shutoff valve fully chromed for the toilet supply and it was very easy and looks great although it was probably $20 or more. Those fittings are not inexpensive but can be handy.

 

[calmloki]

Why? Unless the stem is badly corroded, a simple repacking job should solve the problem. Even with some corrosion, using teflon and tightening the packing nut after the valve is opened may well solve it. If not, then incremental steps/more drastic surgery can always be done. Next step if repacking fails would be what you are suggesting.

I agree with tightening, picking out the packing could open the problem of finding a packing washer shape that is just right. Are you talking about using teflon paste on the existing packing or teflon packing cord?

Something else I don't think I've seen mentioned is the compression connection on the line from the valve to the toilet. If the valve is changed out, that line may be too short, too long, or the (used) compression sleeve might leak. Think he'll be ok - the original picture shows a flex line with no stress in the curve. Nut into the tank valve will be large and have a big honking rubber gasket - easy seal if it had to be replaced.Then the OP gets to replace the line and experience the joy of dealing with (probably) two compression fittings. IMO they are the work of the devil.

I'm thrifty, but don't like to revisit jobs. As a landlord I don't want to spend any more time wrapped around someone else's toilet than I have too. That means hitting the job with all the parts I could possibly need on hand, doing the minimum of work outside the problem (don't make extra work, don't break sh*t), and spending minimum time for required result. sometimes that means a little extra $$, but this can't go past $20.

 

[target2019]

So, important things got in the way, and just this week the plumber arrived and took care of at least six problems accumulated over 25 years. This valve was kinda the tipping point, but medical and other things prevented fixes. Serious money, but a real plumber did this in 4.5 hours.

1st floor powder room: 1 straight and 2 angle chrome valves. Basement: 3 hose bibs with new shutoffs, spliced in 4 hot and cold shutoffs, and replaced main house valve after water meter.

I asked him to do two additional shutoffs, and he did those at no cost along with the main valve. Lucky find for me, as we have some remodeling work, and this company is very good.

 

[Bamaman]

At my last house, I kicked a supply line under a toilet by mistake and the CPVC pipe sheered off. You should have seen how fast a 68 year old can run--down 19 steps to the utility room to cutoff the water coming into the house.

The water ruined a small section of sheetrock ceiling in my basement. I had more pipe and primer/glue and fixed the problem myself. If I wasn't so self sufficient, $ thousands of damage could have been done to my finished basement apartment.

Water supply lines to sinks and toilets are nothing to fool around with. I want my supply valves to be in great shape because they can cause substantial leak damage. So I use new valves--not repacking them.

Spend $150 or so and get a plumber out there. If a little of the slab has to be pulled up, he'll have the tools to do that too. It's just not that big of a deal for a professional.

 

[target2019]

That is funny. One outfit wanted $79 just to give an estimate. In a high income state (NJ) $150 will get you a handyman, and then look out. Likely no insurance, thinks he can do it. An experienced plumber is about $300 per valve.

As I said, it is taken care of. And if I have under the slab problems there are now 4 additional cutoffs before we get to the slab. Nice to also have a valve that shuts off the main without dripping. LOL.