Stations out of Gas TX

[lesjrp]

A Sherpa, for gas engine cars. And I only have gas engine cars.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

New use for an EV!:

That's a modern day Ford Pinto!

 

[teetee]

New use for an EV!:

Imagine if today's service interruption happens to our electricity systems instead of gas pipelines, EVs can't recharge and the energy can't be transported like gasoline in containers. That photo may look like a EV promotion but it only really emphasizes the battery-based energy storage shortcomings.

Though I have to say without electricity for extended period of time, not being able to drive might be the least of our worries.

 

[Ronstar]

^ what if an electrical service interruption happens to someone with a EV and a home backup generator? Would that person be able to charge their EV?

 

[audreyh1]

Probably needed to run his backup generator at home to charge his Tesla when there's a power outage...

Or he’s got a boat, a lawnmower, a chainsaw, and a snowblower……

 

[audreyh1]

Imagine if today's service interruption happens to our electricity systems instead of gas pipelines, EVs can't recharge and the energy can't be transported like gasoline in containers. That photo may look like a EV promotion but it only really emphasizes the battery-based energy storage shortcomings.

Though I have to say without electricity for extended period of time, not being able to drive might be the least of our worries.

^ what if an electrical service interruption happens to someone with a EV and a home backup generator? Would that person be able to charge their EV?

If recently topped off from charging at home, the Tesla can go for a long time until power is restored. Even with some local driving. It loses very little charge per day. You will have a lot of options.

If there is an extended power disruption gas stations won’t be operating. We saw that here in TX during the deep freeze.

 

[Car-Guy]

If recently topped off from charging at home, the Tesla can go for a long time until power is restored.

And if not, looks like maybe they have emergency road recharging service now becoming available. Analogous to AAA bringing you some gas

 

[LRDave]

Gouging is in the eyes of the [-]beholder[/-] buyer.

One has to drive, but nobody dies without a new deck.

You haven't seen my deck.

 

[NW-Bound]

^ what if an electrical service interruption happens to someone with a EV and a home backup generator? Would that person be able to charge their EV?

Yes, but it takes a long long time. An EV with a depleted 60-kWh battery will take 30 hrs of run time on a Honda 2kW generator. If you have a whole house generator of 20 kW, it's a lot better at 3 hours.

Of course the problem is now shifted to one of getting fuel for your generator.

My DIY solar system with 28 panels can produce only about 40 kWh/day due to shading. It is not enough for my house daily consumption, except during shoulder seasons when I require no heating or cooling. I guess if I need to drive, I will scrimp on other usage to save some juice for my EV if I have one.

 

[Car-Guy]

Or he’s got a boat, a lawnmower, a chainsaw, and a snowblower……

Look at his license plate. A snowblower in Florida I guess maybe he could be a snowbird

 

[NW-Bound]

Meanwhile, a guy in Florida who hoarded gas with his Hummer got it burned down.

Well, we all know that Hummers get really low MPG, so this guy had an excuse to hoard.

 

[NW-Bound]

You haven't seen my deck.

Good point! One may fall through his rotten deck and die.

 

[audreyh1]

Look at his license plate. A snowblower in Florida I guess maybe he could be a snowbird

OK nix the snowblower. Must be the wave runner along with the boat.

Or several friends ran out of gas……

 

[Chuckanut]

What bothers me is that one pipeline company getting hit, disrupts the supply of fuel to such a large area. We need some redundancy in this area. A single point of failure is a recipe for disaster.

I expect the above is true for electrical transmission lines.

 

[Car-Guy]

What bothers me is that one pipeline company getting hit, disrupts the supply of fuel to such a large area. We need some redundancy in this area. A single point of failure is a recipe for disaster.

 

[audreyh1]

Meanwhile, a guy in Florida who hoarded gas with his Hummer got it burned down.

Well, we all know that Hummers get really low MPG, so this guy had an excuse to hoard.

OMG! At least he wasn’t at that gas stat behind him!

 

[audreyh1]

^ what if an electrical service interruption happens to someone with a EV and a home backup generator? Would that person be able to charge their EV?

Seriously, chances are the car is fully charged since he charges at home. The car has a massive battery. It won’t need to be charged for a long time and can outlast extended power outages. For a Tesla easily a week. More than that too depending on the driving. Heck during the deep freeze people were going to their Teslas to charge their cellphones.

 

[teetee]

What bothers me is that one pipeline company getting hit, disrupts the supply of fuel to such a large area. We need some redundancy in this area. A single point of failure is a recipe for disaster.

I expect the above is true for electrical transmission lines.

When you have a private company running public services like oil/gas, you will have to wait for the hell to freeze over before they change their business model and no longer focus on profit.

If it is run by the state or fed gov (e.g. train or postal services), you will have to wait for same amount time before it stops being tax money pit, before some sort of redundancy will be discussed.

Pick your poison. This is the case when it is easy to know the right thing to do, but difficult when the money is in the way.

 

[Midpack]

What bothers me is that one pipeline company getting hit, disrupts the supply of fuel to such a large area. We need some redundancy in this area. A single point of failure is a recipe for disaster.

I expect the above is true for electrical transmission lines.

When you have a private company running public services like oil/gas, you will have to wait for the hell to freeze over before they change their business model and no longer focus on profit.

If it is run by the state or fed gov (e.g. train or postal services), you will have to wait for same amount time before it stops being tax money pit, before some sort of redundancy will be discussed.

Pick your poison. This is the case when it is easy to know the right thing to do, but difficult when the money is in the way.

Large utility companies provide lower rates to consumers (without monopolistic pricing) than a bunch of small ones might. There’s a public utility commission in every US state that (among other metrics) regulates profitability within reason - unlike most private businesses. If I was going to criticize an industry for putting profits before customers, utilities would be low on my list. You could rightfully argue that the antiquated and therefore vulnerable industrial control systems we have are due in part to the limits public utility commissions put on them. No system is perfect but careful what you wish for…

 

[steelyman]

I don't plan to leave the house for at least a week at this point. There is nothing I need, and I'm just going to wait until the panic-buying-and-hoarding lunatics are well out of the way and things return to some semblance of "normal" - whatever "normal" means these days.

That’s exactly my plan too. A fantastic benefit of retirement is the ability to choose to wait out these temporary blips (including snow days which are fortunately very few around here).

 

[NW-Bound]

What bothers me is that one pipeline company getting hit, disrupts the supply of fuel to such a large area. We need some redundancy in this area. A single point of failure is a recipe for disaster.

I expect the above is true for electrical transmission lines.

Not just dual pipelines, but each must be capable of 100% capacity.

The problem is only money. If we built 200% capacity in every essential service, the cost would be nearly 2x for everything.

 

[TexasPE]

antiquated and therefore vulnerable?

You could rightfully argue that the antiquated and therefore vulnerable industrial control systems we have...

In my experience the age of the control system has nothing to do with vulnerability to ransomware. The company in question opens up this potential by allowing connections to the internet. The original control systems were self-contained proprietary systems and therefore immune to this type attack. Actually newer control systems are often Microsoft windows-based, which includes another vulnerability area. Ransomware works when known vulnerabilities are not corrected- company's IT/ control group not updating default manufacturer's server passwords, not updating known security flaws, employees clicking on non-business emailed links, etc. The best security is an air-gap: no internet connection.

The only mention I have seen of the actual attack was to the pipeline's billing systems. Colonial shut down the pipeline entirely in an abundance of caution.

 

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^ Sounds like you may have worked around some of this stuff... Me Too!

I realize there are pros and cons, but I agree that one might make the argument that critical Process Control and SCADA systems should not be connected to the Internet, even in-directly. (e.g. totally air gaped needed) Still need to deal with sneaker net attack vectors but doable....


However, loss of convenience and cost may be insurmountable for the private sectors.

 

[stephenson]

Yep - intelligence community and military likes the term “air-gap.”

 

[Car-Guy]

Yep - intelligence community and military likes the term “air-gap.”

Doesn't always work as intended though, especially without other controls... e.g. IRAN and Stuxnet comes to mind.