Strategies to stay out of the hospital, once you are infected?

[Bongleur]

None of the medical reports talk about the ameliorating the course of the disease BEFORE hospitalization.

No one is surveying those who had bad cases but stayed out of the hospital, to determine if they have anything in common wrt treating themselves which might have reduced the severity of the disease "enough."

I think people should presume that they will get infected prior to a vaccine or local herd immunity. Even if you don't know if it is seasonal flu, a cold, or COVID-19, you can take the same steps:

My take is to investigate the utility of:

1) do not become hypoxic. Use a pulse oximeter, and if it starts to drop, use an oxygen generator. This requires medical input to set up the machine, and that you happen to have one. Must take un-assisted oxygen level readings regularly, so a trend leading towards a crash might be identified.

2) use a challenge spirometer to keep track of respiratory difficulty. This may not keep you out of the hospital, but might be evidence to admit you sooner. Or let you know when your breathing is improving.

3) Mega dose on OTC anti-inflammatories. Ten days or so should not be toxic.
Whether they will overly upset your stomach cannot be predicted.

4) monitoring blood pressure is quite simple, but I don't know how it might provide actionable data. But it may be useful trend data if you do go to the hospital.

Has anyone found instructions for doing a differential diagnosis between seasonal flu and COVID-19? Presuming scarce tests are only used when there is a high suspicion of COVID-19, and the time lag between test & results, and the high false negative rate -- I don't see how knowing that you have it can help keep you out of the hospital. I suppose it might help to get you admitted a day or two earlier, if your symptoms worsen.

 

[Beststash]

None of the medical reports talk about the ameliorating the course of the disease BEFORE hospitalization.

No one is surveying those who had bad cases but stayed out of the hospital, to determine if they have anything in common wrt treating themselves which might have reduced the severity of the disease "enough."

I think people should presume that they will get infected prior to a vaccine or local herd immunity. Even if you don't know if it is seasonal flu, a cold, or COVID-19, you can take the same steps:

My take is to investigate the utility of:

1) do not become hypoxic. Use a pulse oximeter, and if it starts to drop, use an oxygen generator. This requires medical input to set up the machine, and that you happen to have one. Must take un-assisted oxygen level readings regularly, so a trend leading towards a crash might be identified.

2) use a challenge spirometer to keep track of respiratory difficulty. This may not keep you out of the hospital, but might be evidence to admit you sooner. Or let you know when your breathing is improving.

3) Mega dose on OTC anti-inflammatories. Ten days or so should not be toxic.
Whether they will overly upset your stomach cannot be predicted.

4) monitoring blood pressure is quite simple, but I don't know how it might provide actionable data. But it may be useful trend data if you do go to the hospital.

Has anyone found instructions for doing a differential diagnosis between seasonal flu and COVID-19? Presuming scarce tests are only used when there is a high suspicion of COVID-19, and the time lag between test & results, and the high false negative rate -- I don't see how knowing that you have it can help keep you out of the hospital. I suppose it might help to get you admitted a day or two earlier, if your symptoms worsen.

Is this based upon some recommendations by a health professional or just your opinion. I say this because if this drags on I worry the likelihood of getting it will be great. Just today I saw lots of people gathering which just wasn't happening last week.

 

[harllee]

Chris Cuomo (CNN reporter) who just got over a bad case of Covid 19 did a report on the things that helped him recover. The things he did were suggested to him by a medical expert. I don't remember all of it but much of it had to do with improving lung function-- deep breathing exercises, getting up each day, standing up instead of sitting, not lying down at night. He said the virus was a beast and you had to fight it..

 

[eytonxav]

Has anyone found instructions for doing a differential diagnosis between seasonal flu and COVID-19? Presuming scarce tests are only used when there is a high suspicion of COVID-19, and the time lag between test & results, and the high false negative rate -- I don't see how knowing that you have it can help keep you out of the hospital. I suppose it might help to get you admitted a day or two earlier, if your symptoms worsen.

This link shows some difference between the two, although there are so many similarities its probably very difficult to know without a test. If you are immuno-compromised or have other underlying conditions, including obesity, I am not sure what one could do at home other than controlling the fever and staying hydrated, getting bed rest, etc.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/coronavirus-vs-flu#prevention

 

[Bongleur]

Is this based upon some recommendations by a health professional or just your opinion.

Based on my reading what health professionals say, and reading some of the primary source material being published on the Net, and interpreting it as a biologist.

 

[Bongleur]

5) this dates back to speculation during the SARS epidemic -- ACE inhibitor drugs and ARB drugs. Need to look up how statins fit into that, if they do. Some of these drugs would be very safe taking them for a couple of weeks. Not yet looked for current reports...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin-converting_enzyme_2

An April 2020 study of patients hospitalized in Hubei Province in China found a death rate of 3.7% for hospitalized patients who had hypertension and were on Angiotensin Converting Enzyme inhibitors or Angiotensin Receptor Blockers versus 9.8% for hospitalized patients with hypertension not on such drugs, suggesting that the drugs are not harmful and may help against the coronavirus. [38]

38 Zhanf P, Zhu L, Cai J, et al. (April 2020). "Association of Inpatient Use of Angiotensin Converting Enzyme Inhibitors and Angiotensin II Receptor Blockers with Mortality Among Patients With Hypertension Hospitalized With COVID-19". Circ Res. doi:10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.120.317134. PMID 32302265.

 

[Bongleur]

This link shows some difference between the two, although there are so many similarities its probably very difficult to know without a test.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/coronavirus-vs-flu#prevention

Yea, pretty useless. Differences in incubation period are irrelevant since you don't know when you caught anything. There are no juxtapositions of "common v rare" between the viruses...

And it does not get into the significant symptom of low blood oxygen level. Do you ever get that with seasonal flu or cold?

 

[eytonxav]

And it does not get into the significant symptom of low blood oxygen level. Do you ever get that with seasonal flu or cold?

That is a good question and I have no idea but maybe if a seasonal flu resulted in pneumonia it might.

 

[stepford]

3) Mega dose on OTC anti-inflammatories. Ten days or so should not be toxic.
Whether they will overly upset your stomach cannot be predicted.

Are you sure about this one? I had heard that many anti-inflammatories were associated with reduced immune function.

 

[bloom2708]

I read Tylenol only. Avoid ibuprofin.

The strokes/clots has me most worried if family should get it. Stay hydrated (water) and move around. Sitting/laying down is easier for clots to form.

 

[audreyh1]

There have been several follow-ups saying ibuprofen is not a problem.

 

[RAE]

I wouldn't stress out about this too much, especially if you are generally in good health. The things you should do are things you should have been doing all along..........eat healthy (real foods, no junk food, adequate protein), get plenty of exercise daily (including some resistance exercise), get some sunshine (Vitamin D), take Vitamin C or eat foods rich in Vitamin C (citrus, etc), get plenty of sleep. You might also consider taking a zinc supplement, as it's important to have adequate zinc to help defend against viral attacks.

Remember, the vast majority of the people that get this virus are able to get through it without having to go to the hospital. I think I may have had it in early March, and I had 6 fairly unpleasant days of being sick (fever, chills, etc), but it never got to my lungs, and I had no respiratory issues. I may be wrong, but I attribute that to my health (and my immune system) being pretty good overall. I have been doing the things listed above for a long time, so maybe all of it helped.

 

[Bongleur]

I wouldn't stress out about this too much...

Being proactive keeps me stress free.

 

[harllee]

I have added some deep breathing to my exercise routine and some rowing exercises to help strengthen my lungs.

 

[bonvoyage]

I had covid in early April and have since recovered. My case was relatively mild like most cases. I had a fever for about 5 days and felt terrible for those few days. I did get tested - although the result came well after I was on the road to recovery.

A few observations:

Your body will burn a lot of calories when fighting the infection. You will need to ensure that you get enough nutrition. My weight started dropping very rapidly. The main problem is that even though your body needs the nutrition, you will have absolutely no appetite. One suggestion is to keep Ensure and Gatorade (with sugar) handy. If you can, force yourself to eat. Record your weight at the same time every day and keep a diary of your symptoms.

Even when I was feeling really terrible, I forced myself out of bed, took a long hot shower in the morning and sat in an easy chair rather than lying down in bed. Like the video posted by Chris Cuomo, I tried to walk a few steps every hour.

Having an Apple Watch was very useful as it kept reminding me to keep moving. Also I noticed from the Apple Watch that my heart rate was elevated for the entire duration of the fever.

Do take Vitamin D on a regular basis - which is apparently good advice in any case.

It took me a good two weeks to get back to normal and I kept forcing myself to keep moving all the time.

 

[harllee]

I had covid in early April and have since recovered. My case was relatively mild like most cases. I had a fever for about 5 days and felt terrible for those few days. I did get tested - although the result came well after I was on the road to recovery.

A few observations:

Your body will burn a lot of calories when fighting the infection. You will need to ensure that you get enough nutrition. My weight started dropping very rapidly. The main problem is that even though your body needs the nutrition, you will have absolutely no appetite. One suggestion is to keep Ensure and Gatorade (with sugar) handy. If you can, force yourself to eat. Record your weight at the same time every day and keep a diary of your symptoms.

Even when I was feeling really terrible, I forced myself out of bed, took a long hot shower in the morning and sat in an easy chair rather than lying down in bed. Like the video posted by Chris Cuomo, I tried to walk a few steps every hour.

Having an Apple Watch was very useful as it kept reminding me to keep moving. Also I noticed from the Apple Watch that my heart rate was elevated for the entire duration of the fever.

Do take Vitamin D on a regular basis - which is apparently good advice in any case.

It took me a good two weeks to get back to normal and I kept forcing myself to keep moving all the time.

Thanks for sharing your story and I am glad you are on the road to recovery. Do you live with someone else? If so did they get the virus? If not, how did they avoid it? Do you have any idea how how you got it? Are you a person that was at high risk?

 

[bonvoyage]

Thanks for sharing your story and I am glad you are on the road to recovery. Do you live with someone else? If so did they get the virus? If not, how did they avoid it? Do you have any idea how how you got it? Are you a person that was at high risk?

Most likely, I was the last person my house to get the virus. My younger daughter had no symptoms, while my older daughter had what looked like a a cold. My wife had some mild symptoms, a slight fever for a day. However she did lose her sense of smell completely. I started feeling progressively worse the week after that. We have a fairly big house and I mostly stayed in one room but we just have to assume that they all had the virus as well.

We took all known precautions but we really have no idea how we got it. The only possibility was a trip to Whole Foods - people were still not wearing masks at that point.

Regarding being at risk, I am fairly fit (was doing strength training with a trainer in a gym), do not take any medications and have no pre-existing conditions.

 

[audreyh1]

I have added some deep breathing to my exercise routine and some rowing exercises to help strengthen my lungs.

Yoga.

 

[audreyh1]

I had covid in early April and have since recovered. My case was relatively mild like most cases. I had a fever for about 5 days and felt terrible for those few days. I did get tested - although the result came well after I was on the road to recovery.

A few observations:

Your body will burn a lot of calories when fighting the infection. You will need to ensure that you get enough nutrition. My weight started dropping very rapidly. The main problem is that even though your body needs the nutrition, you will have absolutely no appetite. One suggestion is to keep Ensure and Gatorade (with sugar) handy. If you can, force yourself to eat. Record your weight at the same time every day and keep a diary of your symptoms.

Even when I was feeling really terrible, I forced myself out of bed, took a long hot shower in the morning and sat in an easy chair rather than lying down in bed. Like the video posted by Chris Cuomo, I tried to walk a few steps every hour.

Having an Apple Watch was very useful as it kept reminding me to keep moving. Also I noticed from the Apple Watch that my heart rate was elevated for the entire duration of the fever.

Do take Vitamin D on a regular basis - which is apparently good advice in any case.

It took me a good two weeks to get back to normal and I kept forcing myself to keep moving all the time.

Thanks so much for sharing the wisdom from your nasty experience. I’m so glad you recovered with no complications.

 

[Bongleur]

This convinces me even more to monitor oxygen level and have an oxygen generator:

https://www.early-retirement.org/fo...er-hospital-discharge-103775.html#post2426562

>
‘Finally, a virus got me.’ Scientist who fought Ebola and HIV reflects on facing death from COVID-19
>

And I wonder if pulse rate is correlated with inflammation (may give clues on preventing a cytokine storm).

I'm adding a high calorie, easy to digest product like Ensure to the emergency supplies.

 

[Bongleur]

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...ents-sense-their-alarmingly-low-oxygen-levels

Why don’t some coronavirus patients sense their alarmingly low oxygen levels?

By Jennifer Couzin-Frankel
Apr. 28, 2020

Doctors are uncertain about the value of detecting low oxygen saturation early using inexpensive devices called pulse oximeters at home. Is home monitoring “going to prevent all bad outcomes in COVID? Absolutely not,” says Levitan, who wrote a 20 April op-ed in The New York Times arguing that early hypoxia can rapidly progress to pneumonia and death. “If we were able to detect them when they were less sick, they’d do better.” Negri tells her patients to monitor their oxygen saturation and visit the hospital if it drops to 93% or below. At that point, she considers blood thinners and other therapy.

No one, however, has studied whether early detection of hypoxia might head off bad outcomes. Some physicians, including Gattinoni, believe pulse oximeters are best used with a doctor’s guidance, perhaps through telemedicine.

 

[Bongleur]

Pepcid (famotidine) -- Trial is using IV. Need to find out what that oral mega-dose was... Oral comes in 10mg and 20mg tablets.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...st-coronavirus

New York clinical trial quietly tests heartburn remedy against coronavirus
By Brendan Borrell
Apr. 26, 2020 , 12:00 PM
SNIP

David Tuveson, director of the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory Cancer Center, recommended famotidine to his 44-year-old sister, an engineer with New York City hospitals. She had tested positive for COVID-19 and developed a fever. Her lips became dark blue from hypoxia. She took her first megadose of oral famotidine on 28 March. The next morning, her fever broke and her oxygen saturation returned to a normal range. Five sick co-workers, including three with confirmed COVID-19, also showed dramatic improvements after taking over-the-counter versions of the drug, according a spreadsheet of case histories Tuveson shared with Science.

Discussion of this drug here:
https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f55/pepcid-famotidine-as-a-treatment-103824.html#post2428284

 

[audreyh1]

No one, however, has studied whether early detection of hypoxia might head off bad outcomes. Some physicians, including Gattinoni, believe pulse oximeters are best used with a doctor’s guidance, perhaps through telemedicine.

Well clearly many are getting to the hospital in very bad shape extremely low blood oxygen levels, and I don’t want to let it get that low. But of course I would talk with my Dr. via telemedicine before going to the hospital. I’m not going to wait on a study either. If doctor’s are alarmed at what they are seeing, that’s good enough for me.

 

[eytonxav]

The thing that is strange with the O2 levels, some individuals may get to a pretty low level before they feel symptoms of being O2 deprived.