Strength training and HMB

[sengsational]

There are a few on here that are much more in the know on physical fitness than I, so I figured I'd see if there was any experiences to learn about from the group concering leveraging this HMB stuff when trying to build muscle.


A quick search showed that HMB was mentioned by Nash (who's avatar shows a runner), but that was an aside that commented on the expense of the stuff.


My thinking goes like this...if I were to start strength training again in earnest, maybe paying for this stuff might be worth it because I could build more muscle with the same effort.


The Wikipedia article is probably a bit suspect because one company has tons of patents on HMB, but there seems to be convincing double blind studies indicating one can get more muscle mass with the same effort. I'm not sure more muscle mass is a valid goal for me... I would rather have more strength, since it's a fact that with ageing, we all get weaker, and that leads to problems like sarcopenia.


But for me, it hit me when I went to Costa Rica and could only surf about 5 waves before my arms gave out. I told myself that next time, I'd train for it. But since doing reps is one of my least favorite things, I thought that if HMB would allow me to spend less time exercising and get the same result, the price might be worth it.


I haven't found any documented side effects, but I don't get along with a lot of things that I've tried (too much synthetic vitamin e gave me pvc's, I think it was vitamin a that affected a hip joint, and I suspect vitamin b complex for a weird arm muscle thing)


Anyway, I just wondered if anyone here has seen a strength increase with less training and what side effects, if any.


Oh, and then there's the dizzying array of options for what brand to buy. Geeze, that's enough to make me throw up my hands and give up! I have used "now foods" before, but it looks like they're calling themselves "now sports". LEF sells one by "Wellness Code". But who do you trust?

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

I know nothing about HMB, but am the distrustful sort. I don't take any medications at this point, and definitely wouldn't be taking supplements to gain muscle mass. But thats just my belief.

I lift weights twice a week. I run 4x a week.

I suggest lifting weights, or just do pushups at home. Keep it up and you'll get where you want to be.

 

[zinger1457]

I also know nothing about HMB but just finished reading the book 'Body by Science- McGuff' and would lean toward the HIT (high intensity training) approach to strength training to get the most from my workouts before experimenting with any supplements.

 

[Oz investor]

i found varying exercises ( in each group ) worked ( say every month )

it doesn't so much build strength quickly but improves the usability of any strength gains

for a supplement try powered egg ( or powered egg white )

 

[LOL!]

This thread prompted me to read about HMB. Looks like a waste of one's money. I'd try a cheaper placebo first to see if that worked.

 

[sengsational]

I guess I have more money than patience when it comes to strength training, so I wouldn't mind dropping a few bucks on the stuff if it would let me get "X" units of strength improvement with, say, half of the time spent getting there. I don't think that's unreasonable, based on the studies I've read.



This study on 70 YO humans is pretty compelling, but not a large sample size. The issue with me is that it's hard to find out what the side effects really are or could be. With 15 people, you're probably not going to flush out the side effects. Totally not worth it if there's the chance of even a modest side effect.

 

[LOL!]

This study on 70 YO humans is pretty compelling, ....

I disagree. Not compelling at all. My career was reading such articles, reviewing such articles, writing such articles.

The article itself even says "For the other exercises, there were no significant differences in strength between the two groups or over time. " which is why the title is not about strength, but mentions body composition instead. Maybe some fat was lost, but maybe HMB simply depressed appetites. For instance, have you taken potassium citrate over-the-counter supplement pills? What happens to your appetite?

 

[nash031]

Welp, I can change my avatar to show a cyclist or swimmer or weight lifter if it would help!

Here’s my experience with HMB: I didn’t notice any strength gains that couldn’t be directly attributed to weight lifting in general. Coupled with the expense, the stuff is not worth it IMO.

Here’s the other thing about these types of supplements: they are geared towards increasing explosive strength for short duration efforts. Creatine Monohydrate is the most well known of these, and it actually works, but again, only for providing muscles with excess fuel for short duration and explosive efforts.

What you’re needing the strength for is more muscular endurance than anything else. Raw strength helps, but while Creatine will improve your lift numbers, it will also cause your muscles to hold more water, increasing your overall body weight. You can determine if that is an issue for you... it would be for me in my sports. And... the benefit of that increased ability to lift more weight will not translate to being able to paddle better in the surf.

The same would apply to HMB if I thought that stuff actually worked. It’s designed to help your ability to perform explosive movements such as those involved in weight lifting and is not likely to provide any benefit to paddling.

You don’t need to build more muscle. You need to improve muscular endurance. That’s better done by either practicing the actual movement you want to improve (say, swimming in this case) or by training the muscles you intend to use in a manner more in line with how you would use them. That is, high rep sets at relatively light weights, focusing on chest, shoulders, back and core.

As a simple example to illustrate this, I am quite certain that plenty of big dudes out there can out squat me by a significant margin, but if we both got on bikes... my years of training that skill set and doing strength training focused on that movement (rather than just trying to squat a bunch of weight to build bigger muscles) would win out 99% of the time.

All that said, YMMV... but I think you’d be just as well served to flush your money down the toilet as to take HMB for what you want to address.

 

[MRG]

Seems like bro-science at best.

Even if it's true I think you are hoping for something too good to be true. OK, it's as good as steroids? Assume that. I've been supplementing my testosterone, under a urologist's care, for six months. I'd been working out 3 days a week for the prior year and have doubled my hourly workouts to 6 times weekly while supplementing.

I gained endurance from cardio prior to supplementing, and a little strength. If I gained muscle mass I could not tell. Since supplementing I have gained more strength, endurance, and mass. But guess what? I lift to exhaustion, I jog and run exhaustion.. 6 hours a week in the gym and hiking at altitude during my time off.

Try lifting and doing cardio, it does help with endurance and strength. It's nothing but hard work, with or without supplements(if they work). If you have symptoms of low-t, thyroid problems.... have blood tests done by specialist.

 

[donheff]

I also know nothing about HMB but just finished reading the book 'Body by Science- McGuff' and would lean toward the HIT (high intensity training) approach to strength training to get the most from my workouts before experimenting with any supplements.

+1. It is almost impossible to really exercise to total failure by yourself so I lift weights twice a week as hard as I can. It seems to keep my muscles in tone. Cycling keeps the endurance up.

That said I don’t think exercise generalizes well. Cycling won’t improve your swimming much. You have to swim. And vice versus.

 

[RAE]

I guess I have more money than patience when it comes to strength training,

You really don't need to spend a lot of time on weight training to realize some strength benefits. In my case, I only spend maybe 10-15 minutes or so on weight training, 3X weekly, and I'm satisfied with the results. I haven't really bulked up much (if at all), but it does help me maintain strength. If you don't enjoy lifting weights (and I don't especially enjoy it either), you can do bodyweight exercises instead, like chin-ups (if you want to focus on arm/shoulder strength). I don't know anything about HMB, sorry.

 

[sengsational]

In order not to bury the lead, I'll say I'm convinced that it was too good to be true. Thanks all for your input.

I disagree. Not compelling at all.

Thanks for your informed perspective. I should have read it more closely. I made the leap between the big difference in lean body mass increase in the HBM cohort with strength increase.

Here’s my experience with HMB: I didn’t notice any strength gains that couldn’t be directly attributed to weight lifting in general. Coupled with the expense, the stuff is not worth it IMO.

Valuable first-hand experience. Thanks. As you read in the first line of this post, I'm convinced this was not a real shortcut.

It's nothing but hard work, with or without supplements(if they work). If you have symptoms of low-t, thyroid problems.... have blood tests done by specialist.

Hard work is the problem, lol! But I have been toying with the idea of finding an expert to help me rule out some of those things that might be testable and actionable. After reading here, that's going to be where I go instead of just falling for a quick fix. I guess if HMB really worked for strength, it would be banned, but it's not.

Cycling won’t improve your swimming much. You have to swim. And vice versus.

I can practice getting my feet under myself quickly, but paddling...I'll have to just paddle, I suppose. But I'm nowhere near anywhere I can do that.

You really don't need to spend a lot of time on weight training to realize some strength benefits.

Yeah, I've got a meager strength training routine that I sometimes follow. Mostly body weight stuff, but a few bands. I absolutely can't do the gym. I wish I liked it, but I've tried and dreaded every second there.

Now, put me outdoors doing anything active, and I'll do that all day. I made my own mountain bike loop right in the woods behind my house. It takes everything I've got to go around that loop, with the steep climbs involved. And I love that when I'm riding that (as opposed to cardio on the greenway path or the indoor cardio machine), I must concentrate on the course and can't think of anything else, lest I crash.

 

[eytonxav]

I have done many years of strength training, many of which involved heavy lifting , but have never heard HMB mentioned in the body building forums or in my gym. If you want to gain strength you need to have the proper diet, the right lifting program, and maybe try supplementing with a good quality Creatine powder. I would also say check your t levels, because it can be tuff sledding if your deficient in that hormone.

 

[haha]

Now, put me outdoors doing anything active, and I'll do that all day. I made my own mountain bike loop right in the woods behind my house. It takes everything I've got to go around that loop, with the steep climbs involved. And I love that when I'm riding that (as opposed to cardio on the greenway path or the indoor cardio machine), I must concentrate on the course and can't think of anything else, lest I crash.

I assume you are not a professional athlete. Neither am I, but I want to be healthy, reasonably fit and reasonably fit looking. My test is "did paleo man, or a traditional Masai herder, or an traditional Inuit follow this diet or routine?" If not, and it is pretty much always not, I feel that certainly I do not need this salvation du jour anymore than he needed it.

I find the biggest hurdle is doing whatever you choose, pretty much all weather, all year, close to every day. My main activity at this time in my life is a now largely forgotten combination of walking or various full body movements with hand weights movements. The promoter was a late physician named Leonard Schwartz, back in the 80s. A look at a photo of Leonard, or for women, a look at the middle aged Mrs. Schwartz, would convince anyone that this technique works.

It's cheap-I use 3#, 4#, or 5# dumbells. A varied, but free form, as you like it workout, with nothing but these weights does everything that even a typical obsessive might want to do. Maybe add pushups.

It is fairly easy for me to keep up because I live at the crest of a hill, and I can just do a circuit of up one side and down the other side, on whatever streets I choose, always with sidewalks and modest traffic. The combination of pumping weights with walking up hills usually has me blowing like a quarterhorse. Any extreme movements that i might feel constrained from doing publicly I do in my apartment, or not at all.

Ha

 

[sengsational]

My main activity at this time in my life is a now largely forgotten combination of walking or various full body movements with hand weights movements.

That makes a lot of sense. My routine includes a turkish get up, kettle bell swing, and a few other smallish hand weight in motion stuff. As you mentioned, the cross-section of weather and doing something significant every day keeps me indoors a bunch, and so I've fallen off the wagon more times than I can count.

 

[Ready-4-ER-at-14]

Hope this is not too off topic, but it appears the intent of the thread has been achieved and the thread may die soon anyway unless others have more personal experiences with the supplement.

I'm curious about vein development on your guy's arms. I've been weight training for a couple years now at least 2-3x a week. I use machines for chest and back and dumbbells for biceps along with exercise classes using weights and bands for upper body an additional 2-3x a week. Plus lots of toning stuff with dancing be it Zumba or ball room/ latin.

My arms and shoulders have grown nicely but I've never developed the single superficial large vein that a lot of men show. I read some of you mention reps till exhaustion where as I tend to do 30 reps (12, 10, 8).


I'm curious if I need to up the reps or if this is an individual variation.

 

[nash031]

That said I don’t think exercise generalizes well. Cycling won’t improve your swimming much. You have to swim. And vice versus.

Some exercise generalizes well. A cyclist or runner will have an aerobic capacity that would be beneficial for swimming... and swimming benefits cycling and running quite a bit aerobically and in terms of active recovery. That said, you’re right that you’re not going to be a good swimmer just because you can ride a bike! True.

 

[nash031]

Hope this is not too off topic, but it appears the intent of the thread has been achieved and the thread may die soon anyway unless others have more personal experiences with the supplement.

I'm curious about vein development on your guy's arms. I've been weight training for a couple years now at least 2-3x a week. I use machines for chest and back and dumbbells for biceps along with exercise classes using weights and bands for upper body an additional 2-3x a week. Plus lots of toning stuff with dancing be it Zumba or ball room/ latin.

My arms and shoulders have grown nicely but I've never developed the single superficial large vein that a lot of men show. I read some of you mention reps till exhaustion where as I tend to do 30 reps (12, 10, 8).

I'm curious if I need to up the reps or if this is an individual variation.

Vascularity is a function of individuality and leanness. Very lean athletes will tend to show veins much more easily. Those who have trained over a long term will also develop larger blood vessels in many cases. But some are just more vascular than others.

Really the only benefit is when you need a blood draw, I think.... I’m very lean, thus the veins inside my elbows have been referred to as “nurse porn”.

 

[HFWR]

For more mass, do more reps with less weight; e.g. 3x12 (three sets of twelve)

For more strength, do fewer reps with more weight; e.g. 5x5

Alternate every month or two.

 

[Bir48die]

I have done many years of strength training, many of which involved heavy lifting , but have never heard HMB mentioned in the body building forums or in my gym. If you want to gain strength you need to have the proper diet, the right lifting program, and maybe try supplementing with a good quality Creatine powder. I would also say check your t levels, because it can be tuff sledding if your deficient in that hormone.

I would generally agree with this on the Creatine powder if you're looking for a supplement.

You don't want to just go for bulk. That includes heavy weights and low reps for the most part. To me I think you want a combination of enough weight to strain muscles but allow you to do a decent number of reps. I do consecutive sets without a ton of time in between because I want my muscles to tire out. It gives you a mix of building some muscle but also to give you some endurance. Weights with a mixture of possible rowing will give you both. You want to be able to get your shoulders strong to get you to where you want to go but also to be able to paddle for a decent amount of time before exhaustion.

Just my opinion but I've purposely diverged from bulk to this program to keep strong and lean(er) with a nice "love handle" in case I would get swept out in the current in order to survive for a few more days.

 

[eytonxav]

You can find a lot of good information from Mark Rippetoe. He is a well known strength coach. Check out his page and forum:
https://startingstrength.com/get-started/programs