Switching Social Security

[tryan]

you might be taxed on part of your payments

Interesting point ... the taxes would probably be more damaging than the interest earned (assuming you invested conservatively).

 

[Martha]

Oh yeah, taxes.

So you do it for three years only and amend your return when you pay it back. If you can amend.

 

[mickeyd]

You can indeed do this but you need to be able to repay SS with the necessary funds and then wait until they recalculate your SS benefit with an age 65/66/68. If you can be assureed that you will not spend the money in the meantime it may be worth your time and effort but it also give SS a chance to screw up your account with all of the machinations.

 

[macdaddy]

I'm confused, if you are in a 20%+ tax bracket, and want to repay SS, do you have to repay exactly what they sent you or do you only repay what you took home after taxes?

 

[MJ]

I'm confused, if you are in a 20%+ tax bracket, and want to repay SS, do you have to repay exactly what they sent you or do you only repay what you took home after taxes?

Good question. My guess would be that SSA wouldn't care about your past tax obligations and would want the exact amount they gave you over the years.

 

[REWahoo]

Cuz, darlin,---I'm not the one that raised the question.

I tried to help a guy out, by answering his question. You don't wanna believe,
then it's on you. You don't have time to make a phone call; then don't ask me to do it for you.

Hope ya'll have a good day!

Just a minute, Kid. I need to remove your zinger from my a$$ before I can continue.
The reason for my response asking why you didn't call the SS was your three posts stating:

Yeah, you can do that! Just call your SS office.

I'd just call your local SS office and in your own "I wanna but a pair of shoes voice," just ask them, how to do this?

Check out : www.ssa.gov, or call them on their 1-800 number They'll answer your question, in a heartbeat.

Get back with us and let us know what you found out!!

Just call The Social Security Administration! They have an 800 number. Just ask
the question.

It appeared to me that you were "sure" this could be done but wanted someone else to call and find out for you, especially after your second post above. If I misinterpreted, my apology.

Thank you and thank jdw_fire for the reference to the SS handbook. After reading the applicable section, I still have difficulty believing SS routinely approves these requests unless there are extenuating circumstances (like the example mathjak107 gave about his dad). But what the heck, it's our gummit at work here and that means logic and common sense probably do not apply.

PS: Kid, I didn't reazile we were related. Are we cuzzins on your momma or your daddy's side? Sounds like you're from the southern part of Kansas, am I right darlin?

 

[macdaddy]

Good question. My guess would be that SSA wouldn't care about your past tax obligations and would want the exact amount they gave you over the years.

That sucks, so only those in a low bracket, who probably need to spend the cash anyway, can really benefit from this trick.

 

[Sundance Kid]

REWahoo:

Sorry, If I offended! I couldn't find the info. I was looking for to support my claim.
I figured that, anyone interested could call SSA. I certainly didn't expect or intend
for anyone to do the research for me.

Since weekends aren't a good time to call, (if you expect a live person) guess I'll
call SSA on monday.

Have a Good Day!

Sundance

 

[TromboneAl]

This is mind-blowing.  Someone's got to run this through the spreadsheet.  Thinking out loud here...

You start collecting at age 62.
You pay taxes on the SS money you receive.
You receive investment income on the money you receive.
At age 66, you pay it back (around $48,000).
Amended returns: How would that work, Martha, since you did receive the money?
Can the returned money be deducted in the year you pay it?
You start getting bigger benefits.
And you do it all over again at age 70.5.

 

[Martha]

T
Amended returns: How would that work, Martha, since you did receive the money?

I don't know how or if it would work. Maybe Sundance Kid can look it up for us.

 

[tryan]

If taxes can only be refiled going back three years, why not have SS payments adjusted every three years (on the same cycle).

Point being wouldn't SS adjust the payment to credit you for a 3 year delay?

 

[maddythebeagle]

Some states also tax some portion of social security so Sundance Kid can also look up that why he is at it

 

[samclem]

More thoughts:
- The tax issue would be a PITA. Of course, if this becomes a popular tactic, someone wil publish a "how-to" article. Heck, maybe there'll be a separate sub-section of the TurboTax/TaxCut interview process for it.

On the "morality" of it:
-- I don't think it's "wrong" for several reasons:
--- The rules are written this way, maybe even for a good reason. Anyway, I'm past the point of trying to figure out why various tax breaks/advantages are built into the system. I disagree with "gummint" tryng to encourage various behaviors through the tax code, but that doesn't mean I don't take the breaks that are offered.
--- SSA took huge amounts of money from my pay long before t was needed for payouts. Okay-that's the way the system was designed. I'm not opposed to getting the $$ back and putting it to use as soo as I can legally do it.
--- If I wait until full retirement age to draw SSA and die one month short, I'd have received zero payback for the $$ I contributed (though my spouse will still get a check based on my work history). By taking the $$ earlier, help insure against this--the $$ will be there in the savings pot and she can use it without paying it back (and take the lower payout over time, if that's what she'd like to do).
--- SSA is headed for trouble based on dollars in vs dolars out. We all recognize that the earlier this is addressed, the less drastic the fix will need to be . Based on what we've seen to date, there's no political desire to "fix" te problem until it becomes a crisis. If everyone takes payouts sooner, the crisis arrives sooner and the fix will be less draconian. Then, when we pay the $$ back, we are contributing to the solution.
--- Also, if a lot of folks did this, there might even be some pressure to keep the promises made to middle-income/higher income workers. If the payouts become means-tested or otherwise reduced for folks who paid in more, folks who are saving up/repaying every few years will do the math and decide to keep the money they've saved, since the reduced rate monthly checks won't be worth trading in the lump sum. This creates an incentive not to "soak the rich" (i.e. everyone above the poverty line/everyone who saved for retirement) by cutting their already disproportionately small SSA checks.
Some people would consider this good, some would not.

 

[MJ]

I suspect that if this is doable, that most people wouldn't do it because,
1) they don't have the funds to return, to reset the clock
2) they have the funds but wouldn't want to deal with the complications (taxes etc.)
3) they have the funds but don't even need the SS payments they are already receiving

 

[Nords]

I suspect that if this is doable, that most people wouldn't do it because,
1) they don't have the funds to return, to reset the clock
2) they have the funds but wouldn't want to deal with the complications (taxes etc.)
3) they have the funds but don't even need the SS payments they are already receiving

4) they're too busy surfing or otherwise living their lives...

 

[TromboneAl]

OK, here's what to do:

Don't pay taxes on the SS money you get -- it'll probably be a few years for the gummint to catch on. So, then, when you get audited, you say:

"What, that money? Oh, I paid all that back!"

 

[perinova]

Interesting scheme however: Think about it - if you can give back the money to the SSA it means you can also keep the capital invested instead. It is way better than giving it back.
Did any of you ever compute when it is best to draw SS. Well even though the payments are lower at 62 if you invest that money at ~7% you come out ahead at any age you die before 120. Try to plug in other age of death and investment return you will find out it is "usually" better to get your check early and putting the money to work.
I say usually because if returns are low it might be better to wait to age 67. Age 70 NEVER seem to be a good idea whatever the return you are expecting above.

 

[TromboneAl]

We've discussed this before. My conclusion is the taking it at age 62 is a no-brainer.

 

[mathjak107]

62 is a no brainer depending on spouses situation...if spouse will be financially set than the reduced payment is okay,but if spouse may be hurt financiall you are better off waiting

 

[haha]

Age 70 NEVER seem to be a good idea whatever the return you are expecting above.

Why? the increment between age 67 and 70 is as larger or larger than the increment between 62 and FRT, whatever one's FRT is. It seems to me that it is seamless, or as in my case, actually a bigger boost after FRT than before.

Ha

 

[Michael Moore]

Keep in mind that the Handbook is not a definitive source:

http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/handbook-preface.html

"In case of a conflict between the contents of the Handbook and the Act, Regulations, and Rulings, the latter take precedence. "

As far as any back taxes that might be due, you get to deal with IRS on that, not SSA since the IRS is the tax collecting arm of the Federal government. I'd be curious if IRS might decide to do a general audit of the individual's taxes for the period.

cheers,
Michael

 

[Jarhead*]

Kid, this is the third time you've told us to call SS.  You are the one saying this is "legit", why don't you call them and confirm?

ReWahoo: You're going to have to do a better job in screening out potential laggards in this group. (Hope old Sundance follows up on this, or we'll never know.)

By the way, the Kings stole one from the Spurs on Friday. Any magic left? Find out in about an hour. (No wagers though).

 

[Gail]

Publication 17 addresses the issue of repaying prior benefits that are in excess of your current yearly benefit amount. I can't cut and paste right now, but the general idea is that you can take the repayment as an itemized deduction. You do not file amended returns for the prior years.

 

[Sundance Kid]

Jarhead:

If you're referring to me, as a laggard. I think that's a pretty cheap shot!!!

My apologies, IF I read you wrong!

I stand by my original post. Others have agreed, to some degree, that it can be
done. I would think, that anyone interested in this subject could rely upon their own abilities, to at least contact their SSA office. I'm not argueing the merits of
this idea; I'm merely stating that I've read that it can be done.

 

[Jarhead*]

Jarhead:

If you're referring to me, as a laggard.  I think that's a pretty cheap shot!!!

My apologies, IF I read you wrong!

I stand by my original post.  Others have agreed, to some degree, that it can be
done.  I would think, that anyone interested in this subject could rely upon their own abilities, to at least contact their SSA office.  I'm not argueing the merits of
this idea; I'm merely stating that I've read that it can be done.

Sundance: You read it wrong. (Just having my idea of fun with ReWahoo).