The Electric Vehicle Thread

[REWahoo]

Which one of these are you referring to? Which one (or both?) died?

EVSE or Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment
The term EVSE, or electric vehicle supply equipment, is defined as any device that enables the safe transfer of energy between the local power supply and an electric vehicle.

^ This part, which is commonly, yet incorrectly, referred to as the charger. Since the audience on this thread tends, IMO, to be somewhat technically savvy, I chose the less common but more accurate term for what failed.

The actual charger, located inside the EV, is fine. The EVSE wasn't plugged into the car when it failed.

 

[NW-Bound]

OK, I think this is the Bolt charger cable, aka EVSE that REWahoo described.


It comes with the car, and a replacement costs $450 on eBay. Photo from same eBay listing.

 

[REWahoo]

OK, I think this is the Bolt charger cable, aka EVSE that REWahoo described.

Yes, that's it.

My apology to all for my dyslectic typing of EVSE on all these posts. I corrected as many as I could.

 

[NW-Bound]

I wonder if there's any "active ingredient" inside the EVSE cord, meaning high-power electronics.

If the main ingredient is just copper wiring and electrical contacts, then $450 is a very high price (from eBay). I wonder what GM pricing is (if you are out of warranty).

PS. Obviously, there's some electronics inside the EVSE, because REWahoo said it burned up while not being plugged to his car.

 

[REWahoo]

I wonder if there's any "active ingredient" inside the EVSE cord, meaning high-power electronics.

As I understand it, the cord has thermal sensors to detect overheating, but the real complexity and cost is in the EVSE box itself. Internal photo of a Tesla Wall Unit:

 

[RonBoyd]

^ The actual charger, located inside the EV, is fine. The EVSE wasn't plugged into the car when it failed.

but I need some way to charge until I can get it replaced, as the nearest public charging station is 15 miles away.

Can't you simply plug into standard 110v 15/20 watt until your unit is replaced? Even if it takes all night to fully charge. <chuckle>

 

[RonBoyd]

I wonder if there's any "active ingredient" inside the EVSE cord, meaning high-power electronics.

We have a Pulsar Plus Wallbox and, as I understand it, all it does is supply electricity to the vehicle. Yes, it has electronics that allows, for instance, wi-fi access and scheduled timing but essentially it is simply an electrical outlet like those inside the house you plug a lamp into.

https://wallbox.com/en_catalog/pulsar

 

[REWahoo]

Can't you simply plug into standard 110v 15/20 watt until your unit is replaced? Even if it takes all night to fully charge. <chuckle>

No. An operational EVSE is required as it is the link (physical cord) between the wall plug and the car.

 

[RonBoyd]

No. An operational EVSE is required as it is the link (physical cord) between the wall plug and the car.

Operational? In what way?

Our unit, the Wallbox, essentially (well, in fact), only acts as an extension cord from the house to the vehicle. What am I missing here?

 

[REWahoo]

We have a Pulsar Plus Wallbox and, as I understand it, all it does is supply electricity to the vehicle. Yes, it has electronics that allows, for instance, wi-fi access and scheduled timing but essentially it is simply an electrical outlet like those inside the house you plug a lamp into.

https://wallbox.com/en_catalog/pulsar

It also has a number of very important safety features and other functions:

Simply put, EVSE is a protocol to help keep you and your electric car safe while charging.

Using two-way communication between the charger and car, the correct charging current is set based on the maximum current the charger can provide as well as the maximum current the car can receive.

As part of the protocol, a safety lock-out exists, preventing current from flowing when the charger is not connected to the car. It ensures that if a cable is not correctly inserted, power will not flow through it.

EVSE can also detect hardware faults, disconnecting the power and preventing battery damage, electrical shorts or worse still, fire.

 

[REWahoo]

Operational? In what way?

Our unit, the Wallbox, essentially (well, in fact), only acts as an extension cord from the house to the vehicle. What am I missing here?

Operational in that, unlike mine at the moment, it is fully functional, not on the fritz, and hasn't crapped out.

It is far more than an "extension cord" (see above).

 

[RonBoyd]

It also has a number of very important safety features and other functions:

Okay, I will concede that I (unintentionally) took us way off track. You are correct. If communication is interrupted the unit is disabled (as a tripped breaker would).

However, my issue was with why you have to travel to the "nearest public charging station ... 15 miles away." Can you not charge your vehicle with a 120v source?

Hmmm. I am not sure I would try a 220 RV receptacle but I have no reason why it wouldn't work-- not being an electrician and all.

 

[JoeWras]

FWIW, my name finally came up to order the F150 Lightening. I have until Monday to place the order and I've decided to let it pass. I think I will wait for the battery technology to improve before I reconsider an EV.

I should add that DS should be getting his Lightening soon and I'll have a great opportunity to see how that works out.

Really fascinating that you bailed on the order. The "CarDealershipGuy" on twitter just babbled about this. He is a really interesting source on used and new cars and kind of gives a pulse of the market on many vehicles.

You are a sample of one, but it confirms his rumor. Very interesting...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1648656609692864513

 

[Chuckanut]

What amperage should a circuit be to charge a car like a Tesla Model 3 overnight? Assume the 300 mile battery. Overnight would be eight to ten hours on the charger.

 

[RonBoyd]

It is far more than an "extension cord" (see above).

Unquestionably, but "essentially" that is its only function... not matter how "smart" it is.

 

[NW-Bound]

As I understand it, the cord has thermal sensors to detect overheating, but the real complexity and cost is in the EVSE box itself. Internal photo of a Tesla Wall Unit:

There's quite a bit of electronics there alright, but I see nothing in the picture that can handle the almost 10 kW of power that flows to the car.

So, that electronics has to be mostly for measurement or monitoring for safety.

In the following video, I got a look inside a Tesla Wall Connector box of the latest generation. The electronics is again for monitoring and for WiFi communications with the car or the user smartphone. At 8:30, I saw 2 big contactors or relays in the AC path to the car, that are used by the box to cut off the power in case of failures inside the car, with current sensors wrapped around the contactor output terminals (same as the inductive loop on a clamp AC current meter).

At the beginning of the video at 3:20, they showed a 120V Level 1 cable that plugs into a standard outlet. Even this low-power level cable has a dongle with some electronics.

Obviously, EV makers want another level of protection outside of the car, so that if the real charger inside the EV acts up, the "smart cable" can cut off the power to reduce the risks of fire.

PS. As the guy said, the Level 1 cable provides just enough power to keep the battery warm when it is cold. When it is not cold, the low-power cable can add 40 miles of range overnight.

 

[REWahoo]

What amperage should a circuit be to charge a car like a Tesla Model 3 overnight? Assume the 300 mile battery. Overnight would be eight to ten hours on the charger.

Here is a neat calculator that will provide you with answers to your questions. It also allows you to enter your electricity rates to determine what a charge will cost you:

https://evadept.com/calc/ev-charging-cost-calculator

 

[REWahoo]

However, my issue was with why you have to travel to the "nearest public charging station ... 15 miles away." Can you not charge your vehicle with a 120v source?

Once again, no, not without an operational, functioning EVSE.

Even if you jury-rigged an extension cord to a j1772 connector and plugged it into the car, the car would not electronically accept the connection and would not charge.

 

[misanman]

Really fascinating that you bailed on the order. The "CarDealershipGuy" on twitter just babbled about this. He is a really interesting source on used and new cars and kind of gives a pulse of the market on many vehicles.

You are a sample of one, but it confirms his rumor. Very interesting...

The sales guy (who I've had a great relationship with over the years) said "I don't want to discourage you from ordering, but please don't order if you think you might not want to take delivery - we don't want the vehicle to end up in our inventory."

 

[NW-Bound]

BYD just announced a low-cost EV at the Shanghai Auto Show.

The Seagull is a 5-door hatchback, with a range of 405 km (252 mi) for the top model with a 38-kWh battery, selling for US$13,800. A lesser variant sells for US$11,400. Due to the US tariff, it would cost more if imported to the US.

If the world wants to phase out ICE cars, it needs more EVs like the above.

 

[joesxm3]

What amperage should a circuit be to charge a car like a Tesla Model 3 overnight? Assume the 300 mile battery. Overnight would be eight to ten hours on the charger.

32 amps is pretty good. Maybe 11 hours to charge fully. 40 amps maybe 9 hrs. Time is from memory so maybe off.

Right now charging from 50% to 70% on 32 amps and car said it will take 2 hours.

 

[joesxm3]

Since I got my model Y, I have been keeping the battery at 70% charge since I read that 50% was a good charge for long term storage if not using much.

Today I charged to 85% and drove my longest use case of about 110 miles. It dropped to 50% charge, i.e. used 35% of a full charge.

Double checking, does it seem like a good practice to charge to 70% and drain to 30% or 35% for my long drive?

 

[audreyh1]

What amperage should a circuit be to charge a car like a Tesla Model 3 overnight? Assume the 300 mile battery. Overnight would be eight to ten hours on the charger.

I have 40A supplied, and I can charge around 10% of my Model X battery in an hour. A Model 3 with a smaller battery would charge faster (maybe 25% faster). I’m never charging from 0-100% though. More typically 30% to 65% for around town so like 3.5 hours “overnight” or maybe 30% or 50% to 95% right before a big road trip so 5 to 7 hours maybe.

I’m sure a 32A connection would be sufficient for a Model 3 charging at home. The Tesla Mobile Connector which is a smart charging cable provides this plugged into a 50A RV type socket.

 

[zippy2020]

Most likely that's 85-95% of the EV market. Not total light-vehicle market. I googled around and one source said they estimate that by 2025, EVs might make up about 10% of the light-vehicle market.

FYI the percentages for EV sales have jumped in California in 2023. Recent article in local media is quoted:

" In 2012, (then Gov. Jerry) Brown signed an executive order setting a target of 1.5 million “zero emission vehicles,” or ZEVs, sold in California by 2025. But by March 31, 2023, the total had already reached 1,523,966, according to quarterly data out Friday from the California Energy Commission.

The interest of a small number of hobbyists just a decade ago, now, 21% of all new passenger vehicles sold in California from Jan. 1 to March 31 were electric, a total of 124,053 vehicles. " (does not include hybrids or hydrogen-powered autos)

CA has 40% of the total EV sales in the US since 2011.

Not sure if this link is public since I'm a subscriber, but I'll post it just in case:
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2023/04/21/more-than-1-5-million-electric-cars-have-been-sold-in-california-hitting-state-goal-two-years-early/

 

[REWahoo]

Double checking, does it seem like a good practice to charge to 70% and drain to 30% or 35% for my long drive?

Most agree what you should avoid is routinely charging to 100% and draining to near 0%. Other than that, the "right" percentage charge/discharge range is a subject of constant debate.

I routinely charge to 80% and charge again when I get down to 40%, which is roughly 100 miles driven. Nothing scientific about those percentages, it's what allows me to comfortably charge back to 80% overnight, taking advantage of the economy rate window (midnight to 5 am).