The Electric Vehicle Thread

[Montecfo]

Why would you say that?....many more people live in homes vs apartments/condos. I googled it and about 67% of people live in single family units. I agree that many people don't have very convenient home charging but it's not "most of the potential market".

Yes. And 36% rent. And 20% of single family units lack garages.

And many garages lack a 220 circuit.

That would put those who own their own homes and have a garage less than 50% of folks. And some percentage of those garages are actually carports.

 

[Montecfo]

And those that don't would just use the tens of thousands of chargers spread around the country, with more being added consistently.



Tesla sales wouldn't be up (what was it last quarter, up 80%?) if people couldn't charge.



I notice the EV owners Audrey, Ken, Rob, REWahoo and the rest don't seem to have any of the problems that the one poster keeps repeating over and over.

There is plenty of market among those who DO have garages and own to support the rather modest level of Tesla sales compared to the automobile universe.

And when you say those who don't can just charge elsewhere, we are back to the original issues, namely the limited charging network and time needed to charge.

 

[DallasGuy]

Yes. And 36% rent. And 20% of single family units lack garages.

And many garages lack a 220 circuit.

That would put those who own their own homes and have a garage less than 50% of folks. And some percentage of those garages are actually carports.

You seem to be very negative towards home charging. I didn't have a 220 circuit but Chevrolet installed one for me. It wasn't THAT expensive even if I would have had to pay for it by myself and it's a one time expense. Also, installing a charger for a carport is done all the time...it's pretty common. I go back to my question: Why do you say that MOST of the people do not have access to home charging? It's simply not true. I'm not sure how you define the word MOST, but to me it means something like 80-90%. Given your arguments, even at least 50% of people have access to home charging with very little extra effort (ie. installing a 220 circuit).

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

There is plenty of market among those who DO have garages and own to support the rather modest level of Tesla sales compared to the automobile universe.

And when you say those who don't can just charge elsewhere, we are back to the original issues, namely the limited charging network and time needed to charge.

You missed the point that Audrey, Rob, and all the others actually don't encounter any problems with the things you mention over and over.

So why do you keep posting negative comments even though you don't have an EV and have these problems? We've explained to you countless times how none of these things you mention are an issue.

Midpack tried to give you a helpful suggestion.

 

[Montecfo]

You seem to be very negative towards home charging. I didn't have a 220 circuit but Chevrolet installed one for me. It wasn't THAT expensive even if I would have had to pay for it by myself and it's a one time expense. Also, installing a charger for a carport is done all the time...it's pretty common. I go back to my question: Why do you say that MOST of the people do not have access to home charging? It's simply not true. I'm not sure how you define the word MOST, but to me it means something like 80-90%. Given your arguments, even at least 50% of people have access to home charging with very little extra effort (ie. installing a 220 circuit).

I explained why above. It is math.

But I am not negative toward home charging. It is just a fact that it is not available to a very large chunk of the market.

But I am also open to your view. Please show me how most households have access to home charging.

 

[Montecfo]

You missed the point that Audrey, Rob, and all the others actually don't encounter any problems with the things you mention over and over.

So why do you keep posting negative comments even though you don't have an EV and have these problems? We've explained to you countless times how none of these things you mention are an issue.

Midpack tried to give you a helpful suggestion.

I did not miss that. It is just beside the point. I did not say no one is able to charge at home. I also didn't say EV owners are unhappy with their purchases.

It is just the market is limited at present for the reasons I stated. One two or five happy owners do not define a market.

 

[DallasGuy]

I explained why above. It is math.

But I am not negative toward home charging. It is just a fact that it is not available to a very large chunk of the market.

But I am also open to your view. Please show me how most households have access to hime charging.

Yeah, our math is different. Setting up charging for a single family home is not that difficult even with just a carport or even with no carport at all.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

I did not miss that. It is just beside the point. I did not say no one is able to charge at home. I also didn't say EV owners are unhappy with their purchases.

It is just the market is limited at present for the reasons I stated. One two or five happy owners do not define a market.

You avoided the question.

Why do you post negative comments over and over and over, even though those that have EV's patiently explain to you how all your "concerns" are easily managed.

 

[Texas Proud]

Why would you say that?....many more people live in homes vs apartments/condos. I googled it and about 67% of people live in single family units. I agree that many people don't have very convenient home charging but it's not "most of the potential market".

It is about 58% renters here in the 4th largest city...


In NYC it is about 67%...


LA is 63%


That means the majority of people do not have charging as an option unless there is some charging unit that is portable if you move... I would not put in a charge point in a place I rented...

 

[Montecfo]

You avoided the question.



Why do you post negative comments over and over and over, even though those that have EV's patiently explain to you how all your "concerns" are easily managed.

I respect your right to disagree with me. But what we are discussing is how the market currently views EVs not your personal satisfaction with them.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

It is about 58% renters here in the 4th largest city...


In NYC it is about 67%...


LA is 63%


That means the majority of people do not have charging as an option unless there is some charging unit that is portable if you move... I would not put in a charge point in a place I rented...

If one doesn't have home charging, they would simply use the chargers scattered around the country. Tesla alone has 45,000 chargers. All spaced out around the country. There's also Blink, EVgo, Chargepointe and many others.

In any direction I drive, I pass numerous charging stations. I got rid of my ICE cars in 2018 and I never charge at home, I use the chargers out and about.

Perhaps for those that don't have an EV, it's difficult to realize how easy it is to charge an EV.

 

[Montecfo]

Most of the chargers are not "fast chargers". Only about 20 percent are.

The rest are quite slow to use as has been attested elsewhere in this thread.

And the EV owners in this thread have mostly said they seldom or never use the slow chargers.

 

[DallasGuy]

It is about 58% renters here in the 4th largest city...


In NYC it is about 67%...


LA is 63%


That means the majority of people do not have charging as an option unless there is some charging unit that is portable if you move... I would not put in a charge point in a place I rented...

You assume every other place is just like NY or LA. It's not. Your view is rather limited.

Statistics don't lie. According to this, over 65% of Americans own their own home.

https://ipropertymanagement.com/research/renters-vs-homeowners-statistics

And furthermore, even renters buy EV's....not as many as homeowners, but they do buy them. More and more apartment complexes are adding charging stations.

 

[Texas Proud]

You assume every other place is just like NY or LA. It's not. Your view is rather limited.

Statistics don't lie. According to this, over 65% of Americans own their own home.

https://ipropertymanagement.com/research/renters-vs-homeowners-statistics

And furthermore, even renters buy EV's....not as many as homeowners, but they do buy them. More and more apartment complexes are adding charging stations.

I will give that 'most of the potential market' (which I did not say BTW) is wrong... how about a large percent of the potential market?


Continued improvements in charging time and vehicle costs compared to ICE will be the largest factor IMO... Most here that have one are early adopters and as such love what they have... but a financial guy on TV was talking about the lack of demand for EVs and mentioned the two areas I have above as problems for the rest of the market..

 

[DallasGuy]

I will give that 'most of the potential market' (which I did not say BTW) is wrong... how about a large percent of the potential market?


Continued improvements in charging time and vehicle costs compared to ICE will be the largest factor IMO... Most here that have one are early adopters and as such love what they have... but a financial guy on TV was talking about the lack of demand for EVs and mentioned the two areas I have above as problems for the rest of the market..

In my opinion, one of the big reasons for the lack of demand for EVs is not because people don't want them but because they're so expensive. The average price of a new EV in the US is about $64k. The average price of any new vehicle in the US is about $48k. Take the Chevy Bolt EV and EUV's....there's a waiting list to get one. Why? Because they're somewhat affordable (I paid about $28,700 for mine (new)). Until EV's become more affordable, the demand won't be there because lower and middle class people don't want to spend that much on a vehicle, especially if it is their main vehicle. That removes much of the market from even considering buying one.

 

[Montecfo]

EV bulls would say the reduced fuel and operating costs would close that gap.

But I certainly agree with you.

 

[Midpack]

It is just the market is limited at present for the reasons I stated. One two or five happy owners do not define a market.

Beyond absurd…why anyone would engage you on this topic is beyond me.

 

[Koolau]

Why would you say that?....many more people live in homes vs apartments/condos. I googled it and about 67% of people live in single family units. I agree that many people don't have very convenient home charging but it's not "most of the potential market".

What is your citation for that figure of 67%. I've looked before and don't recall it being that high.

In our state, it is 60% NON SFH (IOW we live in condos, apartments, etc. rather than SFH) We are likely the least EV ready state EXCEPT. Our driving distances are short for the most part.

 

[Midpack]

What is your citation for that figure of 67%. I've looked before and don't recall it being that high.

In our state, it is 60% NON SFH (IOW we live in condos, apartments, etc. rather than SFH) We are likely the least EV ready state EXCEPT. Our driving distances are short for the most part.

I’m sure you don’t think HI is average. If HI is 60%, I’d expect the average to be higher? And here’s some info.

In the United States, the majority of housing units are single-family houses – about 82 million out of the total 129 million occupied units in 2021.

https://www.statista.com/topics/5144/single-family-homes-in-the-us/

 

[Montecfo]

Beyond absurd…why anyone would engage you on this topic is beyond me.

Feel free to make the case that one two or five happy people define a market.

 

[joesxm3]

Lack of buyers.
Did you miss the fact that the model Y is currently the best selling car in the world, passing the ICE Toyota Corolla.

 

[Koolau]

I’m sure you don’t think HI is average. If HI is 60%, I’d expect the average to be higher? And here’s some info.
https://www.statista.com/topics/5144/single-family-homes-in-the-us/

Of course not. Hawaii is anything but representative of the USA. We often say, its the USA but it's not America. My point is that some areas - Hawaii being one of them is not as well suited for electrification as others. SFHs are not nearly as common because they are wildly expensive. IIRC the average cost of a SFH recently topped 1 mil. And although Hawaii is the state most likely to be a solar electric state, there are practical considerations that have retarded solar. I think renewables are around 10%. The remaining is primarily oil (that used to be imported, primarily from Russia IIRC.)

I think that roughly 63% SFH is closer than the other figure of 67% SFH. Also, I live in an SFH on the mainland. But it has no available garage. Putting a charging station here, while possible would be immensely impractical. To get to it I would need to enter from the rear, through a locked fence and then drive over the lawn to the back of the house (where there is no entryway.) The front of the house is right on the street so other than throwing an extension cord out one of the windows, there would be no possibility of charging.

My point in all this: Even some SFH are not easily adapted to charging EVs. The street I live on, most people do have garages, though not all. Most are detached which means significant expense for wiring (and less convenience during charging.) The street that runs the opposite direction, most do not have garages and are on very small lots, making charging more problematic.

I have no idea what % of all SFHs are "easily" amenable to EV charging. If it's 50%, I would be surprised. I'm not saying you couldn't make them ready for charging, but it would cost a lot. YMMV

 

[Montecfo]

I’m sure you don’t think HI is average. If HI is 60%, I’d expect the average to be higher? And here’s some info.
https://www.statista.com/topics/5144/single-family-homes-in-the-us/

Ok let's use that source. It says 82M homes out of 129M are SFH. And 14M are rented.

So 82-14= 68M

Separately I read that 63% of all housing units have a have a garage or carport.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicle...cent-all-housing-units-have-garage-or-carport

68M × 63%= 43M owned homes with garages

43M ÷ 129M = 33% of the total market have access to home charging.

And that figure is high since it includes garages which lack 220 power, those that are inaccessible, being used for storage etc.

 

[REWahoo]

Anyone have any stats on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

 

[Montecfo]

Interesting article today.

Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/27/tes...ange-complaints.html?__source=androidappshare