The Electric Vehicle Thread

[NW-Bound]

Regarding cleanliness of the shared cars, I would think self driving cars would be a complete blank slate for redesign. No need for the traditional interior, I think it would be more like a lounge. built in high intensity UV lighting and those new sprays they are using on aircraft would take minutes at most to sterilize an interior...

Yes, that's true. I am reminded of the concept cars of which I saw photos. Below is one by Volvo.

This one by Bosch looks like it is meant for public service.

 

[skipro33]

I've seen that bus looking one on the local news. They are using it at Sacramento State University to shuttle students from remote parking lots to campus I think.

 

[NW-Bound]

I just searched and found an article about that Olli autonomous shuttle at Sac State. It was an experiment conducted for 3 months, and had a safety operator onboard.

Olli did look like the Bosch shuttle, but was made by an American company called Local Motors, and had 8 seats. And I also found out that Local Motors is a private company in Phoenix, my hometown.

PS. The article said Olli was 3D printed. Its speed was 5 mph.


See: https://www.csus.edu/news/articles/...inkles-Olli-experiment-judged-a-success.shtml

 

[Popeye]

Yes, that's true. I am reminded of the concept cars of which I saw photos. Below is one by Volvo.

This one by Bosch looks like it is meant for public service.

OK, but I can’t ride backwards! If I do it’s going to get pretty messy in there!

 

[38Chevy454]

I'm kinda hoping that the evolution of EV's coincides with self driving cars. That individuals won't own cars, rather just summon one with a phone app. If enough people did this, there would be a car coming to your call within minutes, drop you off to take the next caller, then when you are ready to head home or wherever, page another car to come pick you up.
You would never need to have to worry about charging, ownership costs, insurance, etc. Probably the home budget for daily transportation would be less. Homes would not need a garage or even a driveway? I imagine that the efficiency would reduce a lot of parking needs as well.

Not so sure this plan works outside denser population urban areas. Might be ok in closer in suburbia, but I question how it will be in areas farther from downtown.
Issues such as wait time for the self driving car to show up. I agree owning your own is potentially an answer, but then it is simply a replacement type vehicle.

 

[Chuckanut]

In a nutshell, what this director of Electrify America said: "10c/mile at his charging station, 4c/mile if you charge at home".

.

My RAV4 Hybrid's fuel cost is about 7¢ a mile using regular gasoline. Pretty much in the middle of the above costs.

 

[aja8888]

All these concept EV's look pretty futuristic and costly. And it's nice to dream about a country without hydrocarbon production and use as a fuel (we will still need plastics and turbine produced electrical power though!)

When I look into the future, I can't seem to visualize what 100+ million U.S. "residents" that live in crowded apartments and exist on minimum wage jobs will be driving? Or maybe they won't be driving at all?

I suspect they will be just bused to work and home like many are today, but on electric buses, and probably self driving ones to boot!

 

[explanade]

Fracking is going to be around for a long time, though if oil prices don't go up further, maybe a lot of the smaller operators or the over-leveraged ones don't survive?

Apart from CA, the EU has set deadlines for the end of gas and diesel cars. The UK may move it up to 2030.

THat's going to drastically change the gas and diesel markets as well as reduce oil consumption.

Maybe the best hope is to expand shipments of gas and diesel cars to developing countries, hope to expand markets there?

Otherwise, a lot of oil consumption and demand will decline with the loss of gas/diesel cars to several major markets.

But we're talking 20 years off, unless most of Europe moves up their deadlines.

 

[gerntz]

Rather ironic that the Govt provides a tax break for buying an EV, then adds a tax surcharge for owning an EV!

Don't just do something, stand there!

-ERD50

Two different governments - Fed vs. state.

 

[skipro33]

Rather ironic that the Govt provides a tax break for buying an EV, then adds a tax surcharge for owning an EV!

Don't just do something, stand there!

-ERD50

I think it's ironic they mandate EV's then shut off the power.

 

[travelover]

I think it's ironic they mandate EV's then shut off the power.

It is actually all related. The power shutoffs are due to extreme weather conditions. The extreme weather conditions are at least partly due to fossil fuel burning. It is only going to get a lot more complicated.

 

[NW-Bound]

All these concept EV's look pretty futuristic and costly. And it's nice to dream about a country without hydrocarbon production and use as a fuel (we will still need plastics and turbine produced electrical power though!)

When I look into the future, I can't seem to visualize what 100+ million U.S. "residents" that live in crowded apartments and exist on minimum wage jobs will be driving? Or maybe they won't be driving at all?

I suspect they will be just bused to work and home like many are today, but on electric buses, and probably self driving ones to boot!

Let's hope that Musk will come up with the $25K EV soon, else low-income people will have to drive cars as shown in the video below. Heh heh heh...

When I read about the $2K mini EVs that Chinese grannies use to run errands, I searched for more info, and lo and behold, there are indeed many choices being offered right now in China. And the one in the video below is even cheaper than $2K. Heh heh heh... I don't think it comes with lithium battery though, and just lead acid batteries.

Don't laugh. It is more comfortable than the common golfcart and much less expensive too. It even has a backup video camera and screen.

No autopilot though. What? You want that at the $1500 price too?

 

[explanade]

I wouldn't want to be in those tiny cars in a world where most of the other cars on the road are 4000 pounds or more.

Are crumple zones and other collision protections required for cars on the road?

Looks like it wouldn't have side curtain airbags, maybe not any airbags.

 

[aja8888]

Let's hope that Musk will come up with the $25K EV soon, else low-income people will have to drive cars as shown in the video below. Heh heh heh...

When I read about the $2K mini EVs that Chinese grannies use to run errands, I searched for more info, and lo and behold, there are indeed many choices being offered right now in China. And the one in the video below is even cheaper than $2K. Heh heh heh... I don't think it comes with lithium battery though, and just lead acid batteries.

Don't laugh. It is more comfortable than the common golfcart and much less expensive too. It even has a backup video camera and screen.

No autopilot though. What? You want that at the $1500 price too?

Yes, an affordable by the masses EV would be a big seller. I would even buy one! The big issue is meeting U.S. auto safety standards that would put a lot of cost and weight into any platform.

I looked at a used Nissan Leaf but what turned me off was the very short range and the non cooled battery. It gets real hot here in south Texas!

 

[NW-Bound]

I wouldn't want to be in those tiny cars in a world where most of the other cars on the road are 4000 pounds or more.

Are crumple zones and other collision protections required for cars on the road?

Looks like it wouldn't have side curtain airbags, maybe not any airbags.

Eh, beggars can't be choosy.

Airbags? What airbags? I forgot to look to see if there was any seat belt, but maybe it would not matter anyway. Heh heh heh...

And here's an even cheaper mini EV that's $930, or $1200 with some lead-acid batteries. He and his friend were impressed with what they got for that money. Heh heh heh...

This guy actually paid $3000 after all shipping and custom charges.

 

[NW-Bound]

I wouldn't want to be in those tiny cars in a world where most of the other cars on the road are 4000 pounds or more.

Are crumple zones and other collision protections required for cars on the road?

Looks like it wouldn't have side curtain airbags, maybe not any airbags.

People will just have to drive slow and carefully.


Like dis!

 

[explanade]

Governor of Bavaria not only endorses the 2035 CA deadline, he advocates more fuel-efficient gas/diesel cars until then.

The governor of Bavaria, the state that’s home to German automakers BMW and Audi, has backed a deadline for phasing out gasoline-powered vehicles akin to the 2035 date proposed by California.

Markus Soeder told a virtual convention of his ruling center-right Christian Social Union party Saturday that he favors “setting an end date after which combustion (cars) with fossil fuels can’t be registered any longer.”

Soeder added that “(the end date) in California, that seems like a very good date to me for contributing to an end to the fossil fuel age.”

https://apnews.com/article/california-germany-archive-256c3f775861275ac28c6ae07a79d529

 

[NW-Bound]

I think it's ironic they mandate EV's then shut off the power.

It is actually all related. The power shutoffs are due to extreme weather conditions. The extreme weather conditions are at least partly due to fossil fuel burning. It is only going to get a lot more complicated.

PG&E just announced that power will be cut-off to 89,000 customers in Northern CA, some at about 2 a.m. early Sunday, and some at 4 p.m. Sunday. Power will not be restored until 10 p.m. Monday.


See: https://www.kcra.com/article/pgande...rly-97k-customers-could-be-impacted/34168676#

 

[eroscott]

... Not bad for a $5K vehicle, compared to the long-range Tesla 3 with a 75-kWh battery which goes for $55K (without autopilot).

All you have to do is go to Tesla.com and design a 3 to see the correct price.
AutoPilot is *included*.
Standard Range Plus is $9K cheaper. ...
... 250mi Range / 140mph Top Speed / 5.3s 0-60 mph

 

[explanade]

PG&E just announced that power will be cut-off to 89,000 customers in Northern CA, some at about 2 a.m. early Sunday, and some at 4 p.m. Sunday. Power will not be restored until 10 p.m. Monday.


See: https://www.kcra.com/article/pgande...rly-97k-customers-could-be-impacted/34168676#

Sounds like that’s about possibly avoiding igniting wild fires, not becUse there is insufficient power capacity.

 

[mpeirce]

Sounds like that’s about possibly avoiding igniting wild fires, not becUse there is insufficient power capacity.

These power outages are because the power company didn't clear brush around power lines and related deferred maintenance over the last few years.

Earlier this year the outages were because of insufficient power capacity.

Both caused by poor planning.

 

[NW-Bound]

Sounds like that’s about possibly avoiding igniting wild fires, not becUse there is insufficient power capacity.

As I understand, the so called PSPS (Public Safety Power Shutoff) is due to inadequate transmission lines. Higher power load due to hot weather causes the lines to heat up, expand, become slack, and may come in contact with tree branches when there's high wind.

It's not just power generation (California imports a lot of power, about 1/3 of usage), but the state is also in dire need of more transmission lines.

 

[skipro33]

Sounds like that’s about possibly avoiding igniting wild fires, not becUse there is insufficient power capacity.

No matter the reasoning, it's still insufficient power to the customer at a time that is most critical. How will residents be informed of an evacuation if there is a fire? How will they be able to charge their car? I've had mine shut off for PSPS several times and they don't turn it back on again when the danger is over, they turn it back on once they inspect the lines to be sure none were damaged that potentially would have started a fire. That usually takes days because they have to put eyes on every single foot of wire. Most of it under canopy of trees. Some they can verify by helicopter, much they can not though.
I have a lot of technical recommendations on this; both on reducing the need for complete grid power shut offs and the expediency of restoration. But that's not electric car stuff, so I'll save it. The fact is; when PG$E shuts off power for public safety, much of an all EV California will be without means of refueling their cars for a potential evacuation. Home generators meant to keep the food in freezers from going bad for a few days is not gonna do the job.
PG$E's solution is resiliency through micro grid emergency power generators. As we speak, PG$E is installing them near my neighborhood in the Georgetown, CA area.

https://www.gtgazette.com/2020/09/21/pge-microgrid-coming-to-georgetown/

But the state is working on a carbon neutral, renewable energy grid while the utility company is back feeding said grid with carbon based fuel generators. I'm certainly getting confused messages.

 

[NW-Bound]

Back on electric vehicles, I found this 2-year-old video by WSJ on the popularity of the mini EVs in China. They serve very well the need for personal transportation in congested cities, where people do not go long distances. If we think these little vehicles are not safe, we have to remember how safe bicyclists are when mixed with cars.

 

[Chuckanut]

Back on electric vehicles, I found this 2-year-old video by WSJ on the popularity of the mini EVs in China. They serve very well the need for personal transportation in congested cities, where people do not go long distances. If we think these little vehicles are not safe, we have to remember how safe bicyclists are when mixed with cars.

I suspect in crowded cities it's also a maneuverability and parking issue.