The Electric Vehicle Thread

[Fermion]

RVs a nice way but, unless used muchly, an expensive indulgence.


A 4x4 and a swag will go further than an RV:

I think I will go with an RV over tent.

 

[Chuckanut]

RVs a nice way but, unless used muchly, an expensive indulgence.

+1

If one can use it and enjoys it, great! But, every person I know who has an RV also finds it a money-pit. From new tires and gas tanks to major overhauls of the engine and transmission, I have seen these things really eat up the dollars. Maybe if the electric RV really is simpler that might take some of the sting out of the repair costs. Or maybe not.

I understand they can be great fun and a wonderful retirement life-style. But, they cost a lot more than the purchase price, tax, license and fuel.

On the bright side, they don't seem to be as bad as time-shares.

 

[NW-Bound]

Maybe if the electric RV really is simpler that might take some of the sting out of the repair costs...

Only if it serves the purpose of getting you where you want to go.

The Winnebago EV motorhome is just a small class B. We don't know how much a larger class C would cost. Maybe a quarter million after the battery cost?

By the way, I have not seen any technical info on Tesla EV semi truck. People were wondering what size battery it would have. Tesla was road-testing it shortly after announcing it in 2017, so the truck was real and not phony like Nikola's hydrogen truck.

Perhaps the truck still has practical limitations and Tesla is still working on it. It was estimated that the battery would weigh as much as 26,000 lbs, and cut into the payload capacity. It would also cost 2x the price of a diesel truck.

Tesla Web site only says that the truck burns less than 2 kWh/mile, and there's a long-range configuration with a 500-mile range. The battery would then be 1,000 kWh. That's 10x the size of the largest Tesla S or X battery, which weighs around 1,200 lbs.

 

[Samsung4321]

I think I will go with an RV over tent.

Puye Cliff Dwellings 1983 Jan: Foot prints next to camper in the morning. Fortunately no nature call that night.

 

[MRG]

Puye Cliff Dwellings 1983 Jan: Foot prints next to camper in the morning. Fortunately no nature call that night.

Pretty kitty.

I watched a big male stoll through our neighbors yard one day. I found myself desiring to go indoors.

 

[Koolau]

Isn't this pretty much the strategy the Chevy Volt used? A mostly electric car, but with an on board generator to relieve range anxiety?

I believe it is but the difference is that you start with a lot more EV miles so you use the ICE much less. Also, IIRC the VOLT is designed to be driven for as long as you have gasoline in it. "My" idea would be to have a "small" ICE recharging the battery to extend the range - not make it "infinite." IOW The ICE would NOT let you go indefinitely. It would simply extend your range while removing the chance that you would be stranded someplace where there were no chargers. YMMV

 

[RobLJ]

It seems there are a lot of competing issues when it comes to being green. I guess one person's definition of green may conflict with someone else's. YMMV

At times, it seems to me that a lot of posters on the thread just come up with issues that aren't issues to me; whether it is true for most, I don't know.

I have trees, but my back yard (small) is on a slope where the solar panels point.
I charge from the garage, not from the street (put in the charger with the panels).
We use the seat heaters and the steering wheel heaters, usually, rather than the heater in the Bolt. The RAV PEV has a heat pump, but unless it's really cold we use the seat heaters in it. I suppose that seems Spartan like Polar Bear diving to some posters, but if it's too cold we use the heater, but that's rare in Reno, despite the fact it is cold in winter. It's not a horrific issue that will bring down our satisfaction with driving the Bolt; after the first 2 minutes, usually I don't notice. If you are sensitive to cold, I suppose you would warm up your diesel F-250 in the garage (it won't fit in our garage, but whatever).
Etc, etc.

At times it seems like posters on the EV thread stoop out of their way to find problems with change, scouring the pavement.

And yes, there are issues with installing solar panels and EVs. It's not for everyone and yes, when the Rapture occurs, community solar will be a better solution--when it happens and I'm not holding my breath because most of the posters here will oppose it. When I have to replace my AC, which is likely in 1-5 years, I'll use a heat pump and we'll use space heaters if necessary when temps are below 10 degrees here in Reno, which happens, but not a lot. We keep the temp here 63-65 anyway. Etc.

There are also a whole merd-ton issues with business as usual, that I would post ad nausea, I suppose, but it isn't worth the trouble.

The bottom line is, we're doing fine. I'm not suggesting you install solar or buy an EV, although a lot of the posters on this thread for some reason seem to think this is a threat to them.

I'm also not nailing myself up on a cross with a ladder when I use the seat heater in the Bolt, strangely. I'm satirizing comments, but the ubiquity of them in a EV thread gets exasperating. Did you sacrifice putting on a sweater at your home?

 

[RobLJ]

If I'm sound exasperated, I am. I would have thought the point of this thread was for owners of EVs or people considering them (solar is a related issue but not required).
Instead, it seems to be hijacked by people who don't want EVs (fine) or solar (fine). So what is the point?


And yes, I'm sure I've hurt your feelings. But it gets really exasperating listening to one poster after another who has a) no interest in EVs, b) doesn't want anyone buying EVs, and c) is really annoyed about solar posting continually on an EV thread.

I've said my piece; I'm sure I'm a little sensitive flower. It's OK if no-one is interested in EVs, but I get tired of all the anti-EVs continually posting and posting and posting and posting and posting. It's not the point. Go get your own anti-EV thread where you can hug each other.

 

[Samsung4321]

anti-EV thread

When EVs are cost and convenience competitive with ICE, and I anticipate travelling sufficient distance, then I would like to know the characteristics of a suitable one. And learning from those who have EVs.

In the meantime, I'm interested in knowing enough to determine when that moment arrives - and interested in the effect on various investments.

 

[RobLJ]

The Bolt is working perfectly fine for us. We don't drive it more than 200 miles, so you would have to define "sufficient distance." For distance, we have the RAV PHEV, which we drove to Texas to visit my aged mother in November, which worked perfectly fine for that.
One car households have to examine their own priorities. We have saved 3k in gasoline prices last year, but it's not as convenient. It's also not as fast as a Ferrari, so we did a trade-off.

 

[Samsung4321]

... define "sufficient distance"

A distance that makes fuel cost savings equal to difference in depreciation + maintenance costs.

We have saved 3k in gasoline prices last year, but it's not as convenient. It's also not as fast as a Ferrari, so we did a trade-off.

What was depreciation? Last year used vehicle depreciation anomalous due to disrupted supply chains reducing supply of new vehicles.

 

[ERD50]

At times, it seems to me that a lot of posters on the thread just come up with issues that aren't issues to me; whether it is true for most, I don't know.
....

At times it seems like posters on the EV thread stoop out of their way to find problems with change, scouring the pavement. ....

I agree with you to a point, IMO some posters (but is it really "a lot"?) put too much weight on some pretty 'out there' negatives, or bring up issues that just aren't. But at an individual basis, if one of those corner cases is an issue for that individual, then an EV isn't for them. That's all.

.... The bottom line is, we're doing fine. I'm not suggesting you install solar or buy an EV, although a lot of the posters on this thread for some reason seem to think this is a threat to them.
...

Yes, I do think you are being overly-sensitive, or 'projecting'. I just don't see anyone here talking like EVs are a "threat to them". That makes no sense to me, where does that come from?

If I'm sound exasperated, I am. I would have thought the point of this thread was for owners of EVs or people considering them (solar is a related issue but not required).
Instead, it seems to be hijacked by people who don't want EVs (fine) or solar (fine). So what is the point?

And yes, I'm sure I've hurt your feelings. But it gets really exasperating listening to one poster after another who has a) no interest in EVs, b) doesn't want anyone buying EVs, and c) is really annoyed about solar posting continually on an EV thread.

I've said my piece; I'm sure I'm a little sensitive flower. It's OK if no-one is interested in EVs, but I get tired of all the anti-EVs continually posting and posting and posting and posting and posting. It's not the point. Go get your own anti-EV thread where you can hug each other.

Well, you should also consider there has been a lot of exasperating pro-EV posters in this thread as well. Some are making some pretty crazy statements (don't buy an ICE today! You'll have trouble finding a gas station in ten years!!!!). An EV thread (well, pretty much any thread!) is going to have some of each.

-ERD50

 

[Koolau]

^^^^^

Let's face it, most of us here don't yet own an EV. Some of us aren't particularly skilled in exploring our questions/doubts about EVs. Few of us are experts on EVs OR ICEs. What I'm suggesting is that we're all, to some extent, sharing our knowledge AND our ignorance. At the same time most of us ARE actually fascinated/at least interested in the new EV technology.

Because of my particular situation, it appears an EV is not in my immediate future. That doesn't mean I don't like them or think folks who own them are "wrong." I keep hoping my son eventually offers to let me drive his Model 3 - but I won't give him the satisfaction of asking. YMMV

 

[Midpack]

^^^^^

Let's face it, most of us here don't yet own an EV. Some of us aren't particularly skilled in exploring our questions/doubts about EVs. Few of us are experts on EVs OR ICEs. What I'm suggesting is that we're all, to some extent, sharing our knowledge AND our ignorance. At the same time most of us ARE actually fascinated/at least interested in the new EV technology.

Because of my particular situation, it appears an EV is not in my immediate future. That doesn't mean I don't like them or think folks who own them are "wrong." I keep hoping my son eventually offers to let me drive his Model 3 - but I won't give him the satisfaction of asking. YMMV

Not disagreeing or arguing. It will be interesting to see how many people buy EVs once production capacity catches up to actual demand (remains tbd). I would have definitely bought a Model Y in Nov, but they weren't available then until Jun or Oct (depending on model) and I simply couldn't wait and there were no reasonable interim alternatives. Today Model Y's aren't available until Mar or Aug depending on model. I assume the imminent Austin and Berlin plant startups will increase production and tell us more regarding actual Tesla demand at least, it's significantly understated at the moment. It doesn't seem any legacy automakers have significant capacity yet, maybe VW, and some Chinese brands that aren't available here (yet).

 

[Zathras]

If I'm sound exasperated, I am. I would have thought the point of this thread was for owners of EVs or people considering them (solar is a related issue but not required).
Instead, it seems to be hijacked by people who don't want EVs (fine) or solar (fine). So what is the point?


And yes, I'm sure I've hurt your feelings. But it gets really exasperating listening to one poster after another who has a) no interest in EVs, b) doesn't want anyone buying EVs, and c) is really annoyed about solar posting continually on an EV thread.

I've said my piece; I'm sure I'm a little sensitive flower. It's OK if no-one is interested in EVs, but I get tired of all the anti-EVs continually posting and posting and posting and posting and posting. It's not the point. Go get your own anti-EV thread where you can hug each other.

I understand your exasperation.
Please try to keep in mind, some misinformation has been pushed with a lot of money behind it for many years. Many people have heard of this, and it is the only source of info they had. As such, they are doubtful of EVs.
Others simply have driving patterns/needs for which an EV makes no sense.

All us owners can do is share our own experiences and answer what questions people may have.

For me, EVs are far more convenient than ICE cars. However, I realize that can vary from person to person.

If you think a poster is ignoring evidence, or taking cheap shots, by all means call them out.
Otherwise, enjoy the bliss that is EV ownership

 

[Samsung4321]

For me, EVs are far more convenient than ICE cars.

Presumably plug in in own garage, perhaps solar PV during day?

 

[aja8888]

Presumably plug in in own garage, perhaps solar PV during day?

All cars have a certain degree of convenience. That's why we buy them. I can go in my garage, jump in the car, turn the key and she fires right up. Then I can go wherever I want. Now that's convenience. When I was working in the oilfield, I could be in west Texas and drive all day on a tank of gas in my pickup. That was convenient too.

 

[Koolau]

One thing that might eventually change my EV calculus is if I were to move back to the mainland full time. Here, I used to drive 4000 miles/year - it's much less now since Covid. On the mainland (sans Covid) I could imagine "seeing the USA in my Chevrolet - er, Tesla.)

Son drove his Model 3 from WA State to the midwest - hauling a small camper - and never ran out of juice. So, it can be done. I'm sure you still have to do some planning so YMMV.

 

[Samsung4321]

All cars have a certain degree of convenience.

The higher cost of EVs is not offset by greater convenience other than refuelling at home for those with facilities to do so - which add to the cost. Refuelling current EVs away from home is less convenient due to wasted time.

 

[JoeWras]

One reason people keep posting about solar is because EVs are to solar as ICE is to gasoline.

For ICE, it doesn't have to be gasoline. It could be diesel. It could be NG. It could be hydrogen. It could be coal and steam.

Same with EVs. The power doesn't have to be generated by coal, oil or NG. It could be nuke, wind or solar.

There's an inextricable tie here because the promise of EVs is zero carbon emissions. Putting aside the manufacturing issue of solar, solar gives great promise for that. Legislation is driving EV adoption because of the environmental promise.

So, it circles back to solar and sometimes wind.

Unless we wanna start getting serious about talking nuclear.

Perhaps we need to fracture the threads into something like:
- EV performance
- EV convenience
- EV environmental

Or something like that.

 

[homestead]

For me having to plug in to charge and unplug before leaving on each trip at home seems more inconvenient than just filling up at a nearby gas station every few weeks.

 

[jmp470]

I can report on having both Solar and an EV. I think I first posted about my Audi e-Tron on page 24 ish of this tread.

1. We love our EV, and use it 95% of the time. @Homestead what we are starting to notice is that it’s harder to keep gas in our other car than it is to plug our EV in. Do you let your phone die? It becomes the same habit with the car.

2. Longer trips are very do able, you just have to plan them out. We don’t do super long trips, and if we do, we take the pack mule versus the EV.

3. Our electric bill has gone up, since we have the EV and I’m not sure if we are saving money. The reason being, the EV is just so darn easy to drive, and FUN. A run to town takes 10 miles / 10 minutes driving for us. For our Minivan, that’s about $1.5 in gas. In the EV its 40 cents. So we notice we are driving more little trips. Again, the Car is super fun to drive and this helps.

 

[homestead]

@Homestead what we are starting to notice is that it’s harder to keep gas in our other car than it is to plug our EV in. Do you let your phone die?

No, I charge it every day. But imagine a phone/car that you only had to charge/fill every three weeks. Which is more convenient?

 

[zinger1457]

No, I charge it every day. But imagine a phone/car that you only had to charge/fill every three weeks. Which is more convenient?

If you're just doing ~20 mile daily trips and have an EV with a 300 mile range then you don't need to charge it every night. Don't have an EV but would imagine for most the cable at home is right next to the car, might take 15 seconds to plug/unplug, certainly not an inconvenience.

 

[MRG]

If you're just doing ~20 mile daily trips and have an EV with a 300 mile range then you don't need to charge it every night. Don't have an EV but would imagine for most the cable at home is right next to the car, might take 15 seconds to plug/unplug, certainly not an inconvenience.

+1
I found that I miss the gas station for cleaning my windows but I'll do it at home vs walking in gas soaked asphalt.