The Electric Vehicle Thread

[Chuckanut]

I appreciate your concerns.

1) It's currently 4.3%, not 1%.

You're saying 4.3% of all cars on the road today in the USA are full EV's?

I ask because I have seen electric car figures that include plug-in hybrids as well as non plug-in hybrids. IOW, if it uses electric power in some way to move the vehicle it counts as an electric car. So the information source had better define what is an EV, otherwise, things get confusing fast.

Every source I have checked has full EVs at about 1% of the total number of cars on the road in the USA. EVs make up about 4.5% of current new car sales, not 4.5% of all cars on the road. Hybrid sales are also going up fast. They are about 5% of sales. But, ICE still rules the road.

 

[Koolau]

I appreciate your concerns.

1) It's currently 4.3%, not 1%.

2) It's 2 hours of free charging in CA, apparently only one in Hawaii. I get 78 miles of range if I were to stay the entire two hours. The only time I stay nearly that long is during long dinners out on the town.

3) The free chargers I use have always worked.

Thanks for the update. The 4.3% doesn't square with my (admittedly) cursory data search. My understanding was that about 1% of USA cars are EVs while the sales are on the order of 2%. I'm sure others have sources more reliable than mine.

So glad that you can get as many miles per charge. The chargers we have (free) are (I believe) the level 2 which give fewer miles than you mentioned.

Glad your chargers work. One other issue I've noticed is that, even though the charging spaces are marked "for EVs only" folks (especially at Christmas) park their ICE cars there. I asked around and determined that there is no penalty for parking an ICE in the slot.

I've mentioned here before that we have a law that parking lots of a certain size (it would include my parking structure) are required to provide charging stations. The law says nothing about how much the parking lot may charge for electricity. The law lists no level of charging (1,2,3, etc.) There is no requirement that the stations actually work. There is no guidance as to how the chargers are to be managed. But, none of that is an issue as no one puts in charging stations in parking lots (other than the occasional come-on.) That is because there are no penalties for failing to put charging stations in parking lots.

Of course, my real point was that when EVs make real inroads, we'll need MORE charging stations than we currently have gas pumps because charging is slower than gas/diesel fueling. I've said it before and I'll probably say it again. I'm all for EVs. They don't work for me right now, but I hope their adoption is successful. I just think there are way too many issues not yet solved to "force" or even (significantly) incentivize adoption of EVs en mass.

It's good to hear success stories like yours. I know my son loves his Tesla (he has installed a charger in his own garage.) YMMV

 

[Rocket Man]

I haven't charged at home in 13 months, I use the free electricity. Two people have told me that charging a full charge on a Tesla costs $10. That's CA rates. If you pay less per KWh in your state, that price would be less. My last electric bill was 23 something despite owning 2 EV's.



I can't answer your question as I don't pay to charge my car. Tesla has 30,000 Superchargers, I don't pay to use those either.



I'm sure that the interstate ones won't be free. But considering what the ICE people are paying, perhaps $4 for 15 gallons = $60, yeah I think I'll pass on that. Check out the Costco/gas thread and see how much people are paying and how long they wait in lines. The ICE car drivers are definitely feeling pain at the pump.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Rocket Man]

I have over 11k miles on my Y in 1.5 years.. I have bought $12.37 at one supercharger. I obviously charge mainly at home. At our off hour rate a fully charged Y holds $4.68 of electricity for ~315 miles. Charging rates vary from free to whatever the local rate is plus any $(some are zero) for the provider.

Thanks for the reply! The charging at home is cheaper than I was expecting. Roughly what did it cost to have a charger installed at your home, or what does it cost now?

 

[MRG]

Thanks for the reply! The charging at home is cheaper than I was expecting. Roughly what did it cost to have a charger installed at your home, or what does it cost now?

The Tesla charger was ~550 and my install was under 200. I could have used a $35 NEMA 14-50 instead of the Tesla, the installation is very specific to your site. If you don't need much cable like the 3' I needed, it's mainly just time.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

You're saying 4.3% of all cars on the road today in the USA are full EV's?

I ask because I have seen electric car figures that include plug-in hybrids as well as non plug-in hybrids. IOW, if it uses electric power in some way to move the vehicle it counts as an electric car. So the information source had better define what is an EV, otherwise, things get confusing fast.

Every source I have checked has full EVs at about 1% of the total number of cars on the road in the USA. EVs make up about 4.5% of current new car sales, not 4.5% of all cars on the road. Hybrid sales are also going up fast. They are about 5% of sales. But, ICE still rules the road.

4.3% of total sales, I don't recall if it was January or February 2022.

It was 4.5% for the 4th quarter of 2021.

 

[DayDreaming]

...Of course, my real point was that when EVs make real inroads, we'll need MORE charging stations than we currently have gas pumps because charging is slower than gas/diesel fueling...

It depends on how many EV owners will be able to charge at home.

I'm a new EV owner and I do recharge at home. I'll only need to use a public charging station when I take an overnight trip somewhere, so maybe once per year, if that. (I don't get out much). So instead of visiting a gas station once per week, I'll be using a public charging station once per year. I realize every one will be different, but they won't be building more charging stations for people like me.

Also, I think that the idea of how you [-]refuel[/-] recharge will change: instead of going to a dedicated [-]gas station[/-] recharging station, EV owners might be doing their recharging at shops and restaurants. For example, someone might choose where to eat based on whether or not they can recharge their EV in the restaurant parking lot - especially in tourist areas. This might be a good incentive for shops and restaurants to put a few charging stations in their parking lots.

 

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
You're saying 4.3% of all cars on the road today in the USA are full EV's? ....

Every source I have checked has full EVs at about 1% of the total number of cars on the road in the USA. EVs make up about 4.5% of current new car sales, not 4.5% of all cars on the road. ....

4.3% of total sales, I don't recall if it was January or February 2022.

It was 4.5% for the 4th quarter of 2021.

So to be clear and provide context, the 4.3% sales figure you gave (which you didn't point out was sales, though you responded to post about the % of the fleet, not sales) was irrelevant to the point that you replied to. That post was pointing out that finding an open charger could get harder when EVs make up a higher % of cars on the road than the current ~ 1%. Since ICE/hybrid cars are often on the road for > 14 years, current sales don't relate to the current issues. That's a factor of the current % of the fleet:

Originally Posted by Koolau View Post
Yeah, our Costco and environs has two (as in 2) free plug ins for electric cars. Good luck finding them both working and one open. They aren't fast chargers either and you can only charge for an hour. Now, I'm not knocking it, but clearly, when 1% of our cars are electric, you might still find a free charger. When we get to 50% EVs, I'm guessing you won't find any free chargers. Also, once we are all dependent upon charging with electricity, the cost will NOT go down. YMMV

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

... Of course, my real point was that when EVs make real inroads, we'll need MORE charging stations than we currently have gas pumps because charging is slower than gas/diesel fueling. ...

No, that's not adding up. You can't equate charging stations to gas stations. Though your point is valid about the longer times.

Most EV owners will do most of their charging at home, while almost no ICE owners fill up at home (exception for maybe 0.001% that make their own biodiesel or have their own pump for business or something).

If I owned an EV, I'd only need to use a charging station on a longer trip, which I seldom take. And an EV owner who is reliant on charging stations probably has already factored that in and determined they have sufficient access (some employers provide charging at work).

-ERD50

 

[explanade]

I was researching a trip to Corsica and there are very angry reviews of rental agencies on the island because they were giving out only EVs when people showed up expecting a standard gas or diesel car.

The charging infrastructure on the island is very undeveloped.

Apparently last year, facing a shortage of cars, they bought into a lot of EVs for their fleets, not Teslas but smaller EVs with limited range like Fiat 500e, Renault Zoe, even old Nissan Leafs.

Lot of complaints about long queues at the few chargers and long charging times.

I checked Tesla and they have a handful of chargers in the bigger cities on the island but only charging at 7 or 11 kW.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Picked up the dogs from their grooming appointment, stopped at the free chargers on the way home. Plugged in at 74%. Walked the dogs, went into Starbucks (never to buy anything, just for the little boys room). Drove off at 82%. Everything free, except the dogs haircut.

 

[Koolau]

No, that's not adding up. You can't equate charging stations to gas stations. Though your point is valid about the longer times.

Most EV owners will do most of their charging at home, while almost no ICE owners fill up at home (exception for maybe 0.001% that make their own biodiesel or have their own pump for business or something).

If I owned an EV, I'd only need to use a charging station on a longer trip, which I seldom take. And an EV owner who is reliant on charging stations probably has already factored that in and determined they have sufficient access (some employers provide charging at work).

-ERD50

You are probably correct because those who adopt an EV (now) will be the folks who actually have garages in which they can add a charging station. That's what my son did.

----

Semi interesting story. Son and GF both have EVs. They took turns charging in the garage. Now GF is ex-GF and she has NO place close or easy to charge. She knows a couple of fairly close "free" stations but they are s l o w. The fast chargers are hit and miss as to whether they work or whether they are fast that day. Her 2nd job (grub hub) requires reliable transportation so she has had some issues because of her loss of a charging station.

----

BUT, real problem for most folks, IIRC: More folks do not have a place to install a charging station than those that do. My original issue (If I can recall that far back) was that "forcing" EVs on people will be problematic if we don't first solve the issue of where they can be charged. I don't have a place under my own control so I will be at the mercy of EV charging stations. Not unlike current gas stations - except there are (and will be for a while) way fewer charging stations than fueling pumps. Oh, and so far, I'm ignoring the issue of supplying 100 million EVs with electricity at some point. Interesting discussion. This story is evolving so YMMV.

 

[GTFan]

I'm sure that the interstate ones won't be free. But considering what the ICE people are paying, perhaps $4 for 15 gallons = $60, yeah I think I'll pass on that.

There's a tradeoff for long drives - you pay more for gas but are in/out in 10 minutes on the interstate, you sit for at least 45 mins. to get a full charge for EV. And if you're not driving a Tesla, good luck getting a fast charger that works and can get you a full charge in under an hour.

As others have mentioned, we're nowhere near 5% total EVs here.

 

[ERD50]

There's a tradeoff for long drives - you pay more for gas but are in/out in 10 minutes on the interstate, you sit for at least 45 mins. to get a full charge for EV. And if you're not driving a Tesla, good luck getting a fast charger that works and can get you a full charge in under an hour.

As others have mentioned, we're nowhere near 5% total EVs here.

And that stop for a fast charge isn't as simple as the EV fans make it out to be. IIRC, the fast charge only happens between about 20% and 80% state of charge.

So what are the odds that you find a fast charge station right when you are near 20%? And what are the odds that the next one is going to be spaced such that you'll be drained from 80% to 20% when you pass it? And different EVs have different ranges, so it's not like this spacing can be predetermined. So you either spend more time, or make more frequent stops than that simplistic number infers.

And going from 80% to 20% is only using 60% of the range, so that's more frequent stops than one might think when they hear a range number for an EV. A 300 mile range EV would need to stop every 180 miles to stay in that 20-80 range, and that assumes they find a station at those points. Unlikely.

-ERD50

 

[explanade]

Just heard a story that people are stealing gas again.

Not just siphoning through the cap but actually cutting lines under the car and draining that way or drilling into the tank.

 

[aja8888]

Tesla raises prices of their cars across the board

https://electrek.co/2022/03/14/tesla-increases-prices-whole-lineup-cheapest-electric-csr/

Tesla has implemented big price increases throughout its entire vehicle lineup in an overnight update to its online configurator.

Its cheapest electric car, the Model 3, now starts at $47,000.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Woke up this morning, put on my running clothes and put the dogs in the car. Drove to the free chargers and plugged in at 81%. Took the dogs out to do their business, put them back in the car and went for my 30 minute walk/run (more walking than running thanks to Father Time). Finished and got in the car at 94%. Drove home at 93%. Left 35 minutes later for a 32 mile errand. Back home at 84%.

Always amusing to hear the non EV owners say how complicated charging is.

 

[MRG]

And that stop for a fast charge isn't as simple as the EV fans make it out to be. IIRC, the fast charge only happens between about 20% and 80% state of charge.



So what are the odds that you find a fast charge station right when you are near 20%? And what are the odds that the next one is going to be spaced such that you'll be drained from 80% to 20% when you pass it? And different EVs have different ranges, so it's not like this spacing can be predetermined. So you either spend more time, or make more frequent stops than that simplistic number infers.



And going from 80% to 20% is only using 60% of the range, so that's more frequent stops than one might think when they hear a range number for an EV. A 300 mile range EV would need to stop every 180 miles to stay in that 20-80 range, and that assumes they find a station at those points. Unlikely.



-ERD50

Tesla route planner disagrees. Additionally the network is growing.


https://electrek.co/2021/08/18/tesl...er-expansion-ahead-opening-network-other-evs/

Last quarter, Tesla had 26,900 Superchargers at 2,966 stations around the world, which represent 49% and 46% year-over-year growth.

It is growing fast, but Tesla might need to grow the fast-charging network even faster if it wants to welcome more electric vehicles to it by opening it to other automakers later this year.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Tesla route planner disagrees. Additionally the network is growing.


https://electrek.co/2021/08/18/tesl...er-expansion-ahead-opening-network-other-evs/

Last quarter, Tesla had 26,900 Superchargers at 2,966 stations around the world, which represent 49% and 46% year-over-year growth.

It is growing fast, but Tesla might need to grow the fast-charging network even faster if it wants to welcome more electric vehicles to it by opening it to other automakers later this year.

They've already opened their charging network in Netherlands and France.

 

[travelover]

......Always amusing to hear the non EV owners say how complicated charging is.

I don't want an electric car so it doesn't seem fair that you should be enjoying yours.

 

[JRon]

We purchased a Jeep Wrangler PHEV in October. We get about 25 miles in electric mode which is enough 95+% of the time. Not too many chargers in fly-over country here so a pure EV would be risky.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

I don't want an electric car so it doesn't seem fair that you should be enjoying yours.

I'm enjoying it so much, I'm taking delivery of another one 2pm this afternoon.

Tesla delivers it to your house.

 

[aja8888]

History of Woods Motor Vehicle Company. Note that they were the first to offer a gasoline/electric hybrid back over 100 years ago.

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blo...-primer-in-carriage-nomenclature/#more-434857

Woods was one of the pioneers of electric carriages, starting in Chicago in 1899. That ended in 1916, but not before they built a rather remarkable gas-electric hybrid in 1915, the Woods Dual Power Model 44 Coach.

Top speed on the lighter styles was around 15 mph, less for the heavy wagons.

So here’s a healthy sample of the Woods offering of body styles; if you want to see them all, head here:

https://www.chuckstoyland.com/categ...ic-cars/woods/ca-1903-woods-electric-catalog/

 

[travelover]

I'm enjoying it so much, I'm taking delivery of another one 2pm this afternoon.

Tesla delivers it to your house.

 

[zinger1457]

Charging at the Tesla charging stations isn't free to all Tesla owners is it? My understanding is they offered it as an incentive to new buyers early on but that's no longer the case for new purchases.