The Electric Vehicle Thread

[calmloki]

I think TV and movies have exaggerated how easily people can be tracked.

You have these action shows and movies where they're triangulating cell phone locations in real time and also they just move satellites or drones above anyone in an instant.

Usually though, when you hear of law enforcement, they are serving subpoenas to tech companies to get data on a suspect. That means it's OLD data, certainly not something they track in real time.

You've heard FBI directors, CIA directors and even presidents complain that smart phones have to have a backdoor because full device encryption makes it so tough for law enforcement.

Advocates of this need for intelligence and law enforcement to be able to access devices talk about the ticking time bomb scenario, you know, some scene out of the TV show 24.


And now people worry that connected cars, not just EVs but all new cars now have mobile data connections which can send data back to manufacturers so they may track your location.

I would be surprised if it's as easy as someone plugging in a VIN number and they have real-time updating of a vehicle's location.

When law enforcement tries to track down cars linked to crimes, they have a partial license plate and they can look at the address where the car is registered but they rely on tips from the public and traffic cameras on the oft chance the car passed certain intersections.

If law enforcement had these capabilities, you wouldn't hear about suspects being missing for days, weeks or they're never found.


Maybe the NSA can do this type of surveillance in real time but they will only use it for big things, not run of the mill crimes.

Really the bigger threat is not that your private info. leaks out of your device or is stolen.

It's that you get phished and unwittingly install malware on your devices. There are certainly surveillance tools marketed to governments for millions of dollars by Israeli companies. But those are used for politicians and protest leaders, because of the costs.

They're not being shared nor are these expensive "no-click" hacks being used on use anyone's phone.

Now maybe some cyber criminals will find a way to break into your phones and steal your bank and brokerage assets. But the people who are victims of this kind of hacking are usually people who had sizable holdings in crypto currency or the unfortunate who are victimized by SIM jacking.

Or maybe ransomware, though most of the targets of those are larger companies.

Just was offered the opportunity to lower my car insurance rates with USAA via SmartPilot, a free phone app. Really thought about it, because I like saving money and don't think I have very bad driving habits, but read a little about what USAA says the app can determine and reports. I'll pass.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/usaa-safe-driving/id1438796283

Features of the App

Better Driving, Bigger Discounts
The better you drive, the bigger the discount you’ll earn. It’s that easy. Just focus on keeping your hands off your phone while driving and leaving enough distance between yourself and the cars in front of you.
Driving Insights and Trends
Learn about your driving habits—like how much you drive, how often you use your phone while driving and how often you brake harshly—and see how you can improve.
Automatic and Smart Trip Logging
Using your phone’s GPS and built-in sensors, we’ll automatically log your trips and smart trip data like whether you were the driver, passenger or making calls while driving.

 

[audreyh1]

Just was offered the opportunity to lower my car insurance rates with USAA via SmartPilot, a free phone app. Really thought about it, because I like saving money and don't think I have very bad driving habits, but read a little about what USAA says the app can determine and reports. I'll pass.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/usaa-safe-driving/id1438796283

Features of the App

Better Driving, Bigger Discounts
The better you drive, the bigger the discount you’ll earn. It’s that easy. Just focus on keeping your hands off your phone while driving and leaving enough distance between yourself and the cars in front of you.
Driving Insights and Trends
Learn about your driving habits—like how much you drive, how often you use your phone while driving and how often you brake harshly—and see how you can improve.
Automatic and Smart Trip Logging
Using your phone’s GPS and built-in sensors, we’ll automatically log your trips and smart trip data like whether you were the driver, passenger or making calls while driving.

When I shopped for Tesla insurance, the best deal offered a discount for running their app. It turned out that their app would be tracking my location 24/7. They can’t track the insured Tesla, so they wanted to track me instead. No way José.

Yes, the Tesla knows its location, and when we’re driving, and which of us is driving, and could relay that info back to Tesla, but the info is limited to operation of the car.

 

[ls99]

The Evette?

Will she have a belly button?

 

[NW-Bound]

Automatic and Smart Trip Logging
Using your phone’s GPS and built-in sensors, we’ll automatically log your trips and smart trip data like whether you were the driver, passenger or making calls while driving.

How do they know whether you are the driver or passenger?

I suspect that you must allow the app to access the phone camera. Seeing your face makes it easy.

 

[Texas Proud]

Just was offered the opportunity to lower my car insurance rates with USAA via SmartPilot, a free phone app. Really thought about it, because I like saving money and don't think I have very bad driving habits, but read a little about what USAA says the app can determine and reports. I'll pass.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/usaa-safe-driving/id1438796283

Features of the App

Better Driving, Bigger Discounts
The better you drive, the bigger the discount you’ll earn. It’s that easy. Just focus on keeping your hands off your phone while driving and leaving enough distance between yourself and the cars in front of you.
Driving Insights and Trends
Learn about your driving habits—like how much you drive, how often you use your phone while driving and how often you brake harshly—and see how you can improve.
Automatic and Smart Trip Logging
Using your phone’s GPS and built-in sensors, we’ll automatically log your trips and smart trip data like whether you were the driver, passenger or making calls while driving.

My sister used her phone for Travelers.... Progressive still has something you plug into the car.... I like that better as it is not on my phone...


I saved a bunch, so it was well worth it for me...

 

[GTFan]

Hmmm... I don't think reality is a subjective thing.

LOL, you haven't been paying attention to our politics for a long while now. There's LOTS of alternate realities going on there.

 

[NW-Bound]

Well, the same reality and facts can be spun in different ways, but let's not bring this up.

Back on finding a charging station if you want to take the backroads and not major highways, some people have fun with this challenge, and some do not. I belong in the latter group.

But then, it's not different than RV'ing. Some think RV'ing is a lot of hassle and a costly activity which gives them not much pleasure. I myself find the effort gives me ample rewards. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

"Why ask why? Try Bud Dry." - Nah, I don't wanna try.

 

[Koolau]

I think TV and movies have exaggerated how easily people can be tracked.

You have these action shows and movies where they're triangulating cell phone locations in real time and also they just move satellites or drones above anyone in an instant.

Usually though, when you hear of law enforcement, they are serving subpoenas to tech companies to get data on a suspect. That means it's OLD data, certainly not something they track in real time.

You've heard FBI directors, CIA directors and even presidents complain that smart phones have to have a backdoor because full device encryption makes it so tough for law enforcement.

Advocates of this need for intelligence and law enforcement to be able to access devices talk about the ticking time bomb scenario, you know, some scene out of the TV show 24.


And now people worry that connected cars, not just EVs but all new cars now have mobile data connections which can send data back to manufacturers so they may track your location.

I would be surprised if it's as easy as someone plugging in a VIN number and they have real-time updating of a vehicle's location.

When law enforcement tries to track down cars linked to crimes, they have a partial license plate and they can look at the address where the car is registered but they rely on tips from the public and traffic cameras on the oft chance the car passed certain intersections.

If law enforcement had these capabilities, you wouldn't hear about suspects being missing for days, weeks or they're never found.


Maybe the NSA can do this type of surveillance in real time but they will only use it for big things, not run of the mill crimes.

Really the bigger threat is not that your private info. leaks out of your device or is stolen.

It's that you get phished and unwittingly install malware on your devices. There are certainly surveillance tools marketed to governments for millions of dollars by Israeli companies. But those are used for politicians and protest leaders, because of the costs.

They're not being shared nor are these expensive "no-click" hacks being used on use anyone's phone.

Now maybe some cyber criminals will find a way to break into your phones and steal your bank and brokerage assets. But the people who are victims of this kind of hacking are usually people who had sizable holdings in crypto currency or the unfortunate who are victimized by SIM jacking.

Or maybe ransomware, though most of the targets of those are larger companies.

Tracking is tracking - whether currently or in the past. If you are comfortable with it (cause you never do anything "wrong") then I guess it's okay. I just don't personally like the concept. I believe in my tag line but YMMV.

 

[explanade]

They can't track in real time.

If they're subpoenaing old cell data records to reconstruct the places you've been they need a court order and a convincing argument to the judge that you've committed crimes.

The day to day movements of most people aren't interesting enough for law enforcement to go to that effort.

 

[Koolau]

They can't track in real time.

If they're subpoenaing old cell data records to reconstruct the places you've been they need a court order and a convincing argument to the judge that you've committed crimes.

The day to day movements of most people aren't interesting enough for law enforcement to go to that effort.

Perhaps not as "convincing" as one would think or like it to be.

 

[Ronstar]

They can't track in real time.

If they're subpoenaing old cell data records to reconstruct the places you've been they need a court order and a convincing argument to the judge that you've committed crimes.

The day to day movements of most people aren't interesting enough for law enforcement to go to that effort.

Maybe real time tracking is not possible from cell phone data. But maybe there is some GPS data that can be tracked. Anything is possible - I get emails telling me what my tire pressure is.

 

[Koolau]

Maybe real time tracking is not possible from cell phone data. But maybe there is some GPS data that can be tracked. Anything is possible - I get emails telling me what my tire pressure is.

Hey, if data is real-time, tracking is possible with the right access. Now, whether access is available, or whether there is software, or whether access is "granted", tracking IS possible. I was gonna direct to my tag line, but...

Now, if they could just tell me when my fly is open.

 

[Bee4]

Rivian customers

The EV thread started Jan 2020. Lots of posts - I haven't read them. Would like to hear from other Rivian pre-order customers on why you chose this over other EV trucks.

 

[GTFan]

From the AJC today, yet another article about the cost of EVs with new credits.

EVs too costly for many, even with aid in climate bill
https://epaper.ajc.com/popovers/dyn...campaign=pagesuite-epaper-html5_share-article

Makes the new lower cost of the Bolts look even better, I applaud GM for making at least one current-gen EV affordable.

 

[explanade]

Maybe real time tracking is not possible from cell phone data. But maybe there is some GPS data that can be tracked. Anything is possible - I get emails telling me what my tire pressure is.

Bigger threat is malware delivered through rogue apps or advertising networks which may try to get unauthorized access to your contacts.

The commercial reasons would be things like as you pass by stores, you get some alerts for a coupon or some other enticements for you to come into specific stores.

That may also be through bluetooth.

Or as I noted, something like an Israeli hack that takes control of the microphone and camera as part of state surveillance.

That kind of hack costs millions of dollars, hence only state actors can buy them and the idea is they use it on journalists and dissidents.

I just watched a great series called Slow Horses, about MI5.

At one point, the boss tells his underlings to dump all their phones into the sewer grates on a street because they were issued by the intelligence agency so they for sure had real time hacks.

But there are hundreds of millions of smart phones sold each year and billions in use.

Even if agencies like NSA can break into one of them remotely, it's like finding a needle in a haystack. They have to know the device ID or some other identifier and then find which networks it registered on most recently. The Israeli hack involves sending a WhatsApp message to the known number of a target dissident and use by receiving the message, even if the person never viewed it or clicked on it, takes over the phone.

It would be much harder than Tesla, which puts connectivity in all their cars, inputting the VIN number and being able to see where it is at a given moment. Tesla has maybe a couple of million cars on the road at most?

Compare that with about 2 billion phones.

 

[Turbo29]

Just was offered the opportunity to lower my car insurance rates with USAA via SmartPilot, a free phone app. Really thought about it, because I like saving money and don't think I have very bad driving habits, but read a little about what USAA says the app can determine and reports. I'll pass.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/usaa-safe-driving/id1438796283

Features of the App

Better Driving, Bigger Discounts
The better you drive, the bigger the discount you’ll earn. It’s that easy. Just focus on keeping your hands off your phone while driving and leaving enough distance between yourself and the cars in front of you.
Driving Insights and Trends
Learn about your driving habits—like how much you drive, how often you use your phone while driving and how often you brake harshly—and see how you can improve.
Automatic and Smart Trip Logging
Using your phone’s GPS and built-in sensors, we’ll automatically log your trips and smart trip data like whether you were the driver, passenger or making calls while driving.

I have this with AAA through their CSAA affiliate that sells auto insurance in Northern California and several other states. I wasn't paying attention when I bought the policy otherwise I would have said no.

In my opinion the thing is very problematic. First, it does track you everywhere you are or, I should say, everywhere your phone is.

Then there is its scoring algorithm. I have never once, and I mean never once, used my phone hands on or hands free, when driving yet I have never gotten a perfect score for cellphone habits. One day it was still recording my "trip" when I went to use my phone in my living room.

Don't get me started on smooth driving. Just this morning, while going the speed limit I stopped for a yellow light, which would have been hazardous to blow through, and was dinged on my smooth driving score because I decelerated too fast.

Have an old freeway built in the 1960's with short and steep on and off ramps? Be prepared to be dinged for excessive acceleration and deceleration every time you enter and exit the freeway. Have to drive at 7am? You will be dinged for the time of day you are driving (inexplicably, even on Sunday morning when the roads are empty). I could go on but I won't. I think you get the picture.

I checked the reviews for the USAA app the complaints are almost identical to the complaints about the CSAA app. Next renewal, I'm opting out. I will gladly pay ~$100 more per year to avoid this crap.

I am surprised that state insurance commissions approve this stuff.

 

[RonBoyd]

Just was offered the opportunity to lower my car insurance rates with USAA via SmartPilot, a free phone app. [/B]

State Farm has a similar program. They give you a small (2"x2") device (free) that you are asked to stick on the windshield -- I simply lay it in the console.

The discount (based on my driving) for our April to October 2022 invoice was $241.50. Kinda nice for something I didn't ask for... or expect.

See images of device and graphic of my last trip to Costco (the return portion).

 

[NW-Bound]

State Farm has a similar program. They give you a small (2"x2") device (free) that you are asked to stick on the windshield -- I simply lay it in the console...

So, the device runs on battery. I wonder how long its battery lasts.

 

[RonBoyd]

So, the [State Farm] device runs on battery. I wonder how long its battery lasts.

To be honest, I don't know. They have always sent me an "upgraded version" before that was an issue and asked that I destroy the older one. This has happened twice. In any event, I cannot see any way to access the interior of the device without great force.. a hammer, perhaps.

 

[explanade]

An on-vehicle device wouldn't be as bad as on your phone which you will have with you even when you're not driving.

What does the score do for you? You have to maintain a certain score to get the actual discount?

$240 in premiums savings may be enough of an incentive for them to track your vehicle for a year.

 

[audreyh1]

I have this with AAA through their CSAA affiliate that sells auto insurance in Northern California and several other states. I wasn't paying attention when I bought the policy otherwise I would have said no.

In my opinion the thing is very problematic. First, it does track you everywhere you are or, I should say, everywhere your phone is.

Then there is its scoring algorithm. I have never once, and I mean never once, used my phone hands on or hands free, when driving yet I have never gotten a perfect score for cellphone habits. One day it was still recording my "trip" when I went to use my phone in my living room.

Don't get me started on smooth driving. Just this morning, while going the speed limit I stopped for a yellow light, which would have been hazardous to blow through, and was dinged on my smooth driving score because I decelerated too fast.

Have an old freeway built in the 1960's with short and steep on and off ramps? Be prepared to be dinged for excessive acceleration and deceleration every time you enter and exit the freeway. Have to drive at 7am? You will be dinged for the time of day you are driving (inexplicably, even on Sunday morning when the roads are empty). I could go on but I won't. I think you get the picture.

I checked the reviews for the USAA app the complaints are almost identical to the complaints about the CSAA app. Next renewal, I'm opting out. I will gladly pay ~$100 more per year to avoid this crap.

I am surprised that state insurance commissions approve this stuff.

Yeah, we ultimately decided not to take the Tesla car insurance because we didn’t want to deal with the driving score. At least they know when you are actually driving the Tesla and you aren’t dinged for things that occur when autopilot/autosteer is on.

 

[Jackietime]

Anyone here reserve the Nisson Ariya and now receiving emails about the EV Tax credit eligibility deadline?

 

[Zathras]

I do not have a reservation, however, I have heard from others that there is an issue with the IRA due to be signed into law soon.

What I have been told, is it seems the current federal rebates end the day the President signs the bill. The new rebates don’t start until Jan 1st.
There seems to be a stipulation that if you have a signed sales commitment the rebate is still in play, but I am really fuzzy on how that works.

I tried reading through the bill, but the lawyereese is difficult to wade through.

 

[Texas Proud]

An on-vehicle device wouldn't be as bad as on your phone which you will have with you even when you're not driving.

What does the score do for you? You have to maintain a certain score to get the actual discount?

$240 in premiums savings may be enough of an incentive for them to track your vehicle for a year.

Progressive tracked 6 months... and I still have discounts on one car 7 years later...

 

[Ronstar]

State Farm has a similar program. They give you a small (2"x2") device (free) that you are asked to stick on the windshield -- I simply lay it in the console.

The discount (based on my driving) for our April to October 2022 invoice was $241.50. Kinda nice for something I didn't ask for... or expect.

See images of device and graphic of my last trip to Costco (the return portion).

View attachment 43188

View attachment 43189

Very nice, but I wouldn't want one of those devices on my Jeep or truck. The insurance company would freak out when they saw the map of my route with no roads or anything else.