The Electric Vehicle Thread

[Chuckanut]

FUD.

Nickel-cobalt(-aluminum)-based lithium batteries are going away in favor of lithium iron phosphate.

Lithium is not in any way shape or form scarce.

IIRC, Tesla has said it is going to the iron battery.

I have heard that the Salton Sea in California has decades worth of Li dissolved in its water. Getting it out in a way that is affordable and environmentally sound is the big issue.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/04/the-salton-sea-could-produce-the-worlds-greenest-lithium.html

But amid this environmental disaster, the California Energy Commission estimates that there’s enough lithium here to meet all of the United States’ projected future demand and 40% of the world’s demand. That’s big news for the booming electric-vehicle industry, as lithium is the common denominator across all types of EV batteries.

 

[ls99]

Getting lithium out of salton sea needs some great tech.
https://www.eenews.net/articles/ev-...e CEC has,hub for electric vehicle production.

"The problem with getting at the lithium is that it is mixed with a brew of other ingredients, especially silica. The lithium, present at only 250 parts per million, needs to be removed along with other minerals as the water gushes at a pace of thousands of gallons a minute out of the ground."

 

[Koolau]

Write your Congressman and ask for it to be in the next bill. The glass is half full not half empty.

Yeah, that's what we need. Another bill providing yet more subsidies. Sorry. Count me out.

 

[Car-Guy]

Yeah, that's what we need. Another bill providing yet more subsidies. Sorry. Count me out.

+ A bunch

 

[travelover]

Yeah, that's what we need. Another bill providing yet more subsidies. Sorry. Count me out.

Yes, another good reason to sit on our hands and do nothing. Because, after all, a bill could only provide subsidies.

 

[Koolau]

Yes, another good reason to sit on our hands and do nothing. Because, after all, a bill could only provide subsidies.

Sorry, I simply disagree with the current approach but it's not worth a food fight since YMMV.

 

[GTFan]

Yep, that's not worth the thread lock.

 

[Car-Guy]

Sorry, I simply disagree with the current approach but it's not worth a food fight since YMMV.

Yep, that's not worth the thread lock.

 

[Chuckanut]

Here's a study on how the EV charging network is meeting the demand. It seems there is room for improvement.

https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/growing-ev-market-could-short-circuit-public-charging

“The National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Formula Program promises to provide funds to states for building out their EV public charging infrastructure,” he said. “This will lead to sizable growth in the availability of EV charging stations, but just adding stations isn’t the answer. Stations need to be added to areas where there are currently gaps in heavily traveled routes and in high-density areas for people who don’t have access to residential charging, but most importantly, designed with things for users to do while charging—regardless of the use case. Then, we need to make sure those stations are reliable.”

The study measures EV owners’ satisfaction with two types of public charge point operators: Level 2 charging stations and DC fast-charger stations. Satisfaction is measured across 10 factors: ease of charging; speed of charging; cost of charging; ease of payment; ease of finding this location; convenience of this location; things to do while charging; how safe you feel at this location; availability of chargers; and physical condition of the charging location.

Following are key findings of the 2022 study:

• Most owners relatively satisfied with ease of charging process: Satisfaction with the ease of charging at a DC fast charger is 745 among battery electric vehicle (BEV) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) owners, and satisfaction with the ease of charging at a Level 2 charging station is 699. This indicates that current EV owners understand the operation of both types of chargers, so the systems themselves do not prompt issues. But virtually all other attributes related to public charging score lower. Some, like cost of charging, are much lower—473 for DC fast chargers and 446 for Level 2 chargers.
• Public charger operability and maintenance a key issue: Growth of the public charging infrastructure is making it easier for EV owners to find public charging stations. The index for ease of finding a location is 724 among users of DC fast chargers and 683 among users of Level 2 chargers. But the industry needs to do a better job of maintaining existing charging stations. The study finds that one out of every five respondents ended up not charging their vehicle during their visit. Of those who didn’t charge, 72% indicated that it was due to the station malfunctioning or being out of service.
• Owner satisfaction with availability of public charging stations differs by region: Led by California, the Pacific region has the highest number of public chargers. At the same time, it has the highest concentration of EV owners, yet they are not as satisfied with the availability and condition of public chargers as EV owners in some other geographic areas. The West North Central region (Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota and South Dakota) has the highest level of satisfaction with the availability of public charging. The East North Central region (Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin) has the highest level of satisfaction with the condition of public chargers.
• DC fast charger users are planners: Users of Level 2 chargers cite convenience and price as the two key reasons for choosing a charging location. Users of DC fast chargers, on the other hand, are often on a planned road trip which, along with convenience, determines their choice of charging location. Often, they have few logical alternatives

.

 

[Koolau]

Here's a study on how the EV charging network is meeting the demand. It seems there is room for improvement.

https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/growing-ev-market-could-short-circuit-public-charging


.

It occurs to me that there is a complete paradigm shift when going from gasoline/diesel to electricity while traveling. Actually in town (if you have your own charger in your own garage) I look at that as a real positive. But when I travel in an ICE, I can't recall the last time I felt in fear of running out of fuel. Never did I do any planning to find a gas pump before my trip. Never did I do any research on the road, looking for a fueling station. Basically, my (or DW's) bladder (and maybe local advertised prices) dictate fuel stops. Waiting for an open pump on the road is rare and rarely adds 10 minutes to the fueling process.

Not whining about electric recharging - just pointing out how very different the thought process can be. From "almost no thinking" to actually "planning" pit stops is a paradigm shift that will take some getting used to though YMMV.

 

[REWahoo]

Not whining about electric recharging - just pointing out how very different the thought process can be. From "almost no thinking" to actually "planning" pit stops is a paradigm shift that will take some getting used to though YMMV.

That's true but it appears it won't be at some point in the not too distant future. Charging networks are booming, popping up faster than the babysitter's boyfriend when the car pulls up. At this rate it looks like within a few years (3? 5?) charging stations will be commonplace.

 

[travelover]

....... popping up faster than the babysitter's boyfriend when the car pulls up. ..........

 

[Koolau]

That's true but it appears it won't be at some point in the not too distant future. Charging networks are booming, popping up faster than the babysitter's boyfriend when the car pulls up. At this rate it looks like within a few years (3? 5?) charging stations will be commonplace.

I hope that is correct. Of course, it may be that EV mfgs can build cars faster than charging-station entrepreneurs can (will) build chargers (chicken-egg conundrum.) Time will tell.

I think the big green (and IRS enhancement) bill that just passed had money to subsidize charging, but I'm not certain of that so YMMV.

 

[Ronstar]

EV's must have braking problems. I was behind a nice looking Tesla yesterday, trying to get close enough to read the model number. Then it ran a red light and I never got close to it again.

 

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^
Trying to get to a charging station no doubt.

 

[Zathras]

It occurs to me that there is a complete paradigm shift when going from gasoline/diesel to electricity while traveling. Actually in town (if you have your own charger in your own garage) I look at that as a real positive. But when I travel in an ICE, I can't recall the last time I felt in fear of running out of fuel. Never did I do any planning to find a gas pump before my trip. Never did I do any research on the road, looking for a fueling station. Basically, my (or DW's) bladder (and maybe local advertised prices) dictate fuel stops. Waiting for an open pump on the road is rare and rarely adds 10 minutes to the fueling process.

Not whining about electric recharging - just pointing out how very different the thought process can be. From "almost no thinking" to actually "planning" pit stops is a paradigm shift that will take some getting used to though YMMV.

It is a different way of thinking about fueling.
However, most EV drivers I have spoken with, have never had a fear of running out of fuel.
My research before traveling has ranged from ‘none’ to ‘less research than I spent on hotels’.

It is difficult to fully understand the paradigm shift until you have made it.

 

[travelover]

EV's must have braking problems. I was behind a nice looking Tesla yesterday, trying to get close enough to read the model number. Then it ran a red light and I never got close to it again.

Why would you assume EVs have braking problems after seeing a single one run a red light? Maybe red cars have braking problems.

 

[travelover]

.......It is difficult to fully understand the paradigm shift until you have made it.

It is especially hard to understand when you have an agenda not to.

 

[ERD50]

Why would you assume EVs have braking problems after seeing a single one run a red light? Maybe red cars have braking problems.

I assumed it was a joke (the driver just wanted to run the light, bad brakes were the 'funny' excuse?). -ERD50

 

[audreyh1]

Regenerative braking is da bomb! But it doesn’t engage unless you let up in the accelerator slightly.

 

[Car-Guy]

I assumed it was a joke (the driver just wanted to run the light, bad brakes were the 'funny' excuse?). -ERD50

That's the way I took it too without giving it a second thought, or maybe he's "trying" to be funny too when he wrote "red cars"? Hard to tell.

 

[Koolau]

That's the way I took it too without giving it a second thought, or maybe he's "trying" to be funny too when he wrote "red cars"? Hard to tell.

Heh, heh, just yanking someone's chain is what I think, but YMMV.

 

[Zathras]

Why would you assume EVs have braking problems after seeing a single one run a red light? Maybe red cars have braking problems.

Ronstar must own a business that does brakes

 

[Ronstar]

Ronstar must own a business that does brakes

I wish. I was just joking, but it was funny that on a multi lane road, all of the ICE's stopped at the red light and the Tesla sailed on through. Driver obviously didn't see the light.

 

[Chuckanut]

My research before traveling has ranged from ‘none’ to ‘less research than I spent on hotels’.

It is difficult to fully understand the paradigm shift until you have made it.

Emphasis added....

For me, hotel research is an ongoing event. Just the other day I saved $60 on a road trip hotel (and got three far better morning breakfasts and a bigger room) by doing some research. As I get older I find I like a nice room to retreat to at the end of the day. Or in the afternoon if I just need a break before the evening festivities begin.

Back on topic......

Fisker has a solar sun roof that will supposedly provide 2000 miles worth of power per year.

The company made waves at the Consumer Electronics Show and the 2021 Los Angeles Auto Show, where Henrik Fisker himself debuted the Ocean and its unusual features. Its available roof-mounted solar panels (called SolarSky) are touted to power 2,000 miles of range per year.