The Electric Vehicle Thread

[NW-Bound]

Unfortunately, it is becoming clear that the "actual" needs of consumers is taking a back seat to gummint policy demands. Does anyone think a "few" consumers who routinely have their power cut to prevent forest fires will trump adding more SuperChargers? YMMV

I dunno. I hope you are wrong, or that home owners who keep getting their power cut will be fed up to say something.

And as California has banned the use of gasoline engines, these home owners can't even get a small portable generator to keep their fridge going.

Well, if they work from home, they can plug their home to their Ford EV truck as it is already setup to provide emergency power.

For people who have space, a small solar array coupled with a lithium battery will feed an inverter to keep the food cold and the light on. It may cost a bit more than a small generator, but it can help reduce the utility bill even when you don't have rolling blackouts. I highly recommend this, particularly as power is getting to be more expensive and iffy at the same time.

As mentioned earlier elsewhere, AZ has never suffered electricity shortage, but the two large utilities here, SRP and APS, have said they will be OK through 2023, but 2024 may bring trouble. Said they could not guarantee capacity expansion to meet the higher demand. Did not say where the new demand would come from though.

I am already set up to handle blackouts with my solar+battery system which I am still expanding. And I recently bought an inverter generator just in case. Heh heh heh... That's what money is for, to guarantee myself some creature comfort.

 

[ls99]

On a lighter note, in the city where I was born and grew up a Holiday streetcar is running. Naturally, it is electric, using power from a catenary system via a pantograph. It is a 10 min video, from last fall, and will run again. the inside is shown starting at 2 minunte. I used to ride a much older version and undecorated, before 1967 to travel to my electrician training job at a steel mill.
It has been voted the most beautiful holiday streetcar in Europe for the last five years.

 

[ls99]

Streetcar

The version of streetcar I used to ride, the yeloow ones

 

[NW-Bound]

Yes, one way to use less energy is to give up personal cars and ride public transportation.

Hah, what public transportation, you ask.

Well, it's chicken and the egg here in the US. And we like to live in big suburban homes with front and back yards. Too spread out to go anywhere fast with public transportation.

I have to say, I like my suburban home and do not like to live in the city. Still, I live close enough to the stores and drive so little in retirement that my car that was bought in Jan 2021, almost 2 years ago, showed only 7,000 miles on the odometer. And that included a trip of perhaps 1,000 miles to California.

If and when gasoline becomes expensive and scarce, I will get a small old EV and keep it charged with my solar power. It's hard to generate enough power for household use and still have enough to charge an EV for a 100-mile round trip commute like I once did when working. But for home-bound retirees, charging your EV with self-generated solar power is quite doable.

 

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I question how far that goes toward supporting some large shift to EVs, as some predict (or mandate!). More from that link:


None of that addresses generating *more* electricity that EVs will consume.

This is their distribution side of the business. So they focus on that aspect. ....

They did just play chicken with Illinois. They started the process to retire two plants but then the state came up with some money for them. They reversed course and will keep the plants open. ...

OK, thanks for that added context - explains why they didn't address generation. Yes, I was glad that IL showed some rare sense and have a plan to keep those nukes going.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

On a lighter note, in the city where I was born and grew up a Holiday streetcar is running. Naturally, it is electric, using power from a catenary system via a pantograph. It is a 10 min video, from last fall, and will run again. the inside is shown starting at 2 minunte. I used to ride a much older version and undecorated, before 1967 to travel to my electrician training job at a steel mill.
It has been voted the most beautiful holiday streetcar in Europe for the last five years.

Is that on the same tracks that run past Szent István krt near the Danube @ Margit Bridge? I was in Budapest ~ 10 years ago, and rode that streetcar system. We stayed at the Hotel NH. Enjoyed Budapest very much, I miss the roast goose and duck!

Nice video.

 

[explanade]

Unfortunately, it is becoming clear that the "actual" needs of consumers is taking a back seat to gummint policy demands. Does anyone think a "few" consumers who routinely have their power cut to prevent forest fires will trump adding more SuperChargers? YMMV

Which consumer needs are those?

There’s high demand for EVs. That demand is the only thing giving the industry any demand. Polls show high interest as well.

Do you think those jurisdictions which set deadlines for end of new car sales acted against the wants of those voters?

New elections, they could replace the politicians who enacted the deadlines and reverse them.

 

[NW-Bound]

Which consumer needs are those?

There’s high demand for EVs. That demand is the only thing giving the industry any demand. Polls show high interest as well.

Do you think those jurisdictions which set deadlines for end of new car sales acted against the wants of those voters?

New elections, they could replace the politicians who enacted the deadlines and reverse them.

And that's why nobody says anything until demand for EV charging power bumps into the demand for keeping ACs and fridges running. If it does not happen, then it's of course all good. Nobody dares deny what the voters want. It's democracy, eh?

I wonder how NREL, National Renewable Energy Lab - an agency inside US Department of Energy, estimated a demand for 3x more electricity by 2035, and roughly 2x to 3x more transmission lines. I like to see their math.

 

[Montecfo]

I have not heard about transformer shortage either. There have to be other things that we also need.

From the above article:




Tripling generation capacity is one thing, but if the new generation is by renewable energy, has anyone figured out how much energy storage will be needed to match supply to the demand? And how much it will cost?

As these facts illustrate, it is an illogical goal voters really should reject.

 

[NW-Bound]

^^^ No. As explanade said, voters want it.

And right now, they want cheap gasoline too. And lots of economic aids in all different forms, but low inflation. Don't forget low taxes. All the good stuff. You name it, voters want it.

 

[ERD50]

.... There’s high demand for EVs. ....

So we can end all the sales tax credits?

-ERD50

 

[NW-Bound]

So we can end all the sales tax credits?

-ERD50

Heck no. Voters want it. Voters want everything, I keep sayin'.

 

[ls99]

Is that on the same tracks that run past Szent István krt near the Danube @ Margit Bridge? I was in Budapest ~ 10 years ago, and rode that streetcar system. We stayed at the Hotel NH. Enjoyed Budapest very much, I miss the roast goose and duck!

Nice video.

No. These are in the city of Miskolc, close to North East corner of Hungary.

 

[Koolau]

Which consumer needs are those?

There’s high demand for EVs. That demand is the only thing giving the industry any demand. Polls show high interest as well.

Do you think those jurisdictions which set deadlines for end of new car sales acted against the wants of those voters?

New elections, they could replace the politicians who enacted the deadlines and reverse them.

Well, personally, I like the lights and computer and fridge and heat/ac available 24/7. I consider those consumer needs. When there are black outs due to shortages or because ancient infrastructure is no longer safe from starting forest fires, that's a problem. Requiring all cars to be EV won't help that situation.

You are right that the "people" in certain areas have a point of view that currently fits with the EV-only mandates. When the things I mentioned above quit routinely w*rking, check back with me. Gummints have risen and fallen on single issues which I won't mention.

Because this could get political, I'll just leave it at that. YMMV

 

[Koolau]

As these facts illustrate, it is an illogical goal voters really should reject.

Reminds me of K's explanation of a "person vs people" - Words to live by:

 

[explanade]

Yeah maybe some people in CA lost power for awhile back in September when there were record temps.

Had nothing to do with EVs.

Just as if parts of TX or FL lose power for a couple of days due to major storm, those power outages have nothing to do witH EVs.

When you can find an instance of people losing power because too many people were charging EVs, you’re welcome to cite those actual examples instead of this baseless concern trolling.

 

[Koolau]

Yeah maybe some people in CA lost power for awhile back in September when there were record temps.

Had nothing to do with EVs.

Just as if parts of TX or FL lose power for a couple of days due to major storm, those power outages have nothing to do witH EVs.

When you can find an instance of people losing power because too many people were charging EVs, you’re welcome to cite those actual examples instead of this baseless concern trolling.

Yeah, I don't know if EVs specifically had anything to do with lost power in CA or not, but CA DID tell folks specifically not to charge their EVs during certain high use hours. That is quite telling for the current situation and especially for the future.

I'm all for EVs (for the folks to whom they make sense) but I'm just not convinced that forcing them on people is the right way to go. Nor do I think that all areas are prepared for the effects (increased use of electrical power) more EVs will require.

 

[Car-Guy]

I'm just not convinced that forcing them on people is the right way to go.

Duh!

Nor do I think that all areas are prepared for the effects (increased use of electrical power) more EVs will require.

We have a fix for that here... Just don't build too many. Seems to be working

 

[explanade]

Who is forcing whom to buy EVs?

I leased a Honda at the start of the year. Would have bought or leased an EV if they were available without high dealer markup.

In 10 years or so they may prevent sales of new EVs here in CA. If I really wanted an ICE, I could buy one a year or two before the deadline. Probably be the last car I’d buy.

If I was younger and needed a new car, I’d buy an EV after the deadline. Or buy used ICE if I was stubborn headed about it.

Nobody is making you buy any car. Even out here in tHe burbs there are other ways to get around.

 

[ERD50]

Who is forcing whom to buy EVs?
...

You answered your own question:

.... In 10 years or so they may prevent sales of new EVs [NOTE: I assume this is a typo, and you meant "ICE"] here in CA. ....

Numerous 2035 mandates, some 2030 in UK.

It would really help if you quoted what you reply to. I assume this:

Originally Posted by Koolau View Post
I'm just not convinced that forcing them on people is the right way to go.

He didn't put in a timeline, you did. I agree with him, forcing (and incentivizing) people to buy EVs (now or 10~13 years from now) is not the right way to go.

-ERD50

 

[Montecfo]

Here is a shoutout to the persons trying to educate the people.

Tough task for sure.

 

[Car-Guy]

Here is a shoutout to the persons trying to educate the people.

Tough task for sure.

Maybe even hopeless....

 

[acronymous]

An educated perspective would acknowledge the cost of delaying the transition away from a greenhouse gas polluting economy of which the transportation sector plays a large role. The dollar figure is eye-watering not to mention the effects on bio-diversity, food/water security, extreme weather events, human suffering/migration, political chaos, etc.

I get it, change is hard and managing the transition will be extremely difficult with unintended consequences along the way. However, delaying will only compound the difficulty and going backwards (see recent surge in FF extraction project development) is nihilistic.

 

[JoeWras]

Other perspectives would acknowledge the impact of crop yield reduction, home heating unavailability and a host of other impacts on human suffering should natural gas be slammed shut abruptly.

We need to find a common ground on the transition.

 

[acronymous]

Other perspectives would acknowledge the impact of crop yield reduction, home heating unavailability and a host of other impacts on human suffering should natural gas be slammed shut abruptly.

We need to find a common ground on the transition.

Agreed. The transition is multidimensional.