The internet is reversing significantly

[JoeWras]

With the recent turbulence at Twitter and Reddit, it got me thinking about a lot of things about the internet.

Significantly, it is becoming more and more difficult to find and discuss quality information. I'm not even talking about politics or hot buttons like COVID or climate. How about just hobby stuff? Seriously, politics is another level and I repeat, I am not even talking about that.

Thankfully, this site (early-retirement.org), bogleheads and a few others are going against the grain and hanging in there, keeping the user driven forum alive.

The problem is manifold.
1) Search curates you and points you into a corner they think will make them money
2) Forums are dying
3) Video is king
4) General social media forums (Facebook, Twitter, Reddit) are either under extreme upheaval (Twitter, Reddit) or have just become useless curated money-makers (Facebook, Instagram)
5) Video can be useful, but takes time to find the info and is now dominated by money makers (TikTok, YouTube, and so on)

I suppose I could complain about the good old days, and maybe I will for a paragraph or two.

Very early on (90s), there was a sense of "we're all in it together" and people helped. Many blogs were started that were really, really useful. Sure, there were trouble-makers. There always are. But generally, you could cut through the crap and make your own decisions and find that diagram and experience on changing out the wiring harness on your 1990 Astro.

Up until the phone age, this generally was the way. Around the dawn of the smart phone, google was becoming more sophisticated, and was starting to direct you for clicks, but they were open about it. Youtube in its infancy had some great stuff, all home made. Forums were still abundant, as were blogs.

Then Facebook. Then google takeover of Youtube. Then Twitter, and it seemed to all go to hell.

Everyone is in it for a buck. Good information has been removed. Many forums died, presumably because everyone went to Facebook or Reddit. There's something to that, but I can also say the Google and Bing curation definitely led people away from the more homier stuff that would not make money with click thrus.

Now we find ourselves in a situation where everyone is trying to make a buck, while at the same time screaming that capitalism sucks. It is ironic. So, there are the protests on Reddit. Musk has locked down Twitter because of "spam." Screw him, I'm not a spammer, but I'm also not getting a sign on. Never had one. Don't want one. Tik Tok is the land of idiots.

And so on.

Maybe I'm just being melodramatic, but it seriously is bugging me as I'm trying to look up hobby stuff and it has either disappeared with the Reddit protest, or becomes some 20 minute YouTube I have to wade through. I also want to discuss theories about movies. Can't do that anymore once Bezos got a hold of IMDB. It got relegated mostly to Reddit. Guess what? Protest.

At least I can still search for stuff here. For now...

 

[Lsbcal]

I generally use the web for very specific things. My only subscripts are to the Economist and AllTrails. I don't have high expectations for the rest. Some youtube content is decent and plenty is trash.

Reuters is good on a PC with ad blocker. Yahoo finance is decent for following stocks and funds in their portfolio setup. CNBC has some decent free content but I ignore stuff that is pay only.

Mostly I just look at stuff on my PC with an ad blocker. I'm amazed when I look at some sites with the ad blocker turned off. This site looks awful if you are not logged in and don't use an ad blocker. But this site is pretty good compared to others out there.

Plenty of alternatives. I would say to go read a good book or participate in a favorite activity.

 

[aja8888]

I generally use the web for very specific things. My only subscripts are to the Economist and AllTrails. I don't have high expectations for the rest. Some youtube content is decent and plenty is trash.

Reuters is good on a PC with ad blocker. Yahoo finance is decent for following stocks and funds in their portfolio setup. CNBC has some decent free content but I ignore stuff that is pay only.

Mostly I just look at stuff on my PC with an ad blocker. I'm amazed when I look at some sites with the ad blocker turned off. This site looks awful if you are not logged in and don't use an ad blocker. But this site is pretty good compared to others out there.

Plenty of alternatives. I would say to go read a good book or participate in a favorite activity.

Even being logged in, many sites shove crap in your face to get you to turn off the ad blocker. And then there are the "paid" sites where you can't view anything until you send them a fee. Ugh.

 

[JoeWras]

Anyone remember those few golden years where product reviews were actually useful?

Now it is all highly produced content.

 

[GenXguy]

I don't give it much thought because I go to many of the same websites as a routine and have always been good with finding what I need and filtering out the "crap" quickly. Also, I've never spent a cent on those "paid" sites. I also use an ad blocker and don't need to turn it off very often. Videos are time consuming, and I normally don't play videos looking for info. They are often disappointing when I have.

 

[W2R]

I still enjoy the internet, and find whatever I need from it. There are new things to delight in as other things morph into whatever they become.

For me, the key seems to be flexibility. As the saying goes, a big constant out there in the cyber world is change.

 

[COcheesehead]

I do agree video is king. I watch YouTube more than anything else.

 

[Midpack]

I do agree video is king. I watch YouTube more than anything else.

+1. Definitely more than live TV in my case.

The internet is invaluable and we use it everyday. The OP is unhappy with the evolution of internet content/social media, and I’d agree you have to be pretty savvy to avoid misinformation/disinformation, useless clickbait, etc. Good moderators can make a huge difference but only if scale is small enough for them to stay on top of members. The big name for profit social media companies have grown far too large for moderators as we know them to handle, and they’re conflicted between accuracy/civility and promoting “engagement” - they choose the latter in the end.

Early on I thought internet connections would help bring us all together, I could not have been more wrong. Instead many people have become more siloed, and misinformation/disinformation (and worse) spreads faster and wider than anyone could moderate. The problem is not “the internet”, or even algorithms, unfortunately it’s users - content reflects users.

 

[marko]

For all its faults, I couldn't live my current life without the internet. Prime example is being able to monitor my disabled brother from afar ( 7 cameras, 4 temp monitors, able to reboot his cable box remotely when he screws it up). Instead, he gets to live on his own semi independently, and I can live my life (I see him every morning for a few hours) without worrying about him laying on the floor.

Then there's the enormous time savers of online banking, investing and...thank God for Amazon online shopping! I can get more done in a few minutes than what used to take several hours. As a plus, I don't have to search the bushes for my morning papers!

I stay away from social media except to get most of my local news.

And where would any of us be without this forum!!

 

[DrRoy]

I watch very few videos. I mostly go online for information and to post photography.

 

[JoeWras]

The problem is not “the internet”, or even algorithms, unfortunately it’s users - content reflects users.

I'm part of the problem. I have gotten involved as a compensated reviewer for two companies.

I am getting out of the job this year.

-----------

I don't hate the internet or say it is useless. I'm just saying it is going backwards in usability.

 

[donheff]

I like text forums like this one but they are rapidly disappearing. I used to follow quite a few using an RSS feed but that is becoming harder and the forums more of a PITA to access. Back in the day, Usenet Newsgroups were great.

I'm still able to access good information on topics I am interested on YouTube and surprisingly (to me) in Facebook groups. I recently became obsessed with deep space astrophotography and have found tremendous sources of information and discussion that have allowed me to make a lot of progress fairly quickly.

But...I still miss good forums.

 

[audreyh1]

I agree quality has gone way downhill and searches are a whole lot harder. I’ve dropped almost all social media over the last few years except for a couple of well moderated forums. Even travel research is harder. I definitely spend way less time generally web browsing, so much junk! Very noticeable now on even basic recipe searches. I watch some videos but only if I’m pretty sure they are worth my time.

 

[Dream Weaver]

I do miss the unfiltered "wild west" days of the early internet when you needed some intelligence, resources, and a stiff upper lip to access and navigate barely moderated sites where hurt feelings were a given. "If you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen". Even the trolls were witty individuals and not boring mass replying bots pushing a political narrative.

I also miss the days when I could Google something (without adding "definition") and not have to wade through endless pages of obscure songs, movies, and products with the same or similar name or phrase.

Having said that I do love having my investment accounts online and not having to call a broker to make trades or wait for a monthly statement to arrive by mail. I also don't miss the viruses that would bog down your computer into a multi video frenzy or redirect your dial up to AOL Paris or London and send you the long distance bill. Ouch.

 

[Venturer]

I like text forums like this one but they are rapidly disappearing. I used to follow quite a few using an RSS feed but that is becoming harder and the forums more of a PITA to access. Back in the day, Usenet Newsgroups were great.

I'm still able to access good information on topics I am interested on YouTube and surprisingly (to me) in Facebook groups. I recently became obsessed with deep space astrophotography and have found tremendous sources of information and discussion that have allowed me to make a lot of progress fairly quickly.

But...I still miss good forums.

I agree with you sir. I have ridden a Yamaha Royal Star Venture since 2000. Soon after my purchase I had a question about something and a friend told me about a blog/forum he had found that had a bunch of folks that rode the same bike and probably could help me. I went to the site and lurked for a little while but then decided to "join" it. I made a good decision that day. Thru that forum I made friends 1st online, then in person with people from all over the USA & Canada,as well as some from other countries. I would never have thought that would happen because of a motorcycle. Just like this forum has helped me as I transitioned into "retired" life so did the other forums for differant hobbies and intrests. But as some have said the forums gave way in many cases to one of the other "social media" places and then fell out of favor. Thank you to the mods here who do a good job of keeping things on track!

 

[Flieger]

caveat utilitor

 

[eytonxav]

Maybe start a thread, Useful sites for hobby XXX?

 

[Dream Weaver]

I agree with you sir. I have ridden a Yamaha Royal Star Venture since 2000. Soon after my purchase I had a question about something and a friend told me about a blog/forum he had found that had a bunch of folks that rode the same bike and probably could help me. I went to the site and lurked for a little while but then decided to "join" it. I made a good decision that day. Thru that forum I made friends 1st online, then in person with people from all over the USA & Canada,as well as some from other countries. I would never have thought that would happen because of a motorcycle. Just like this forum has helped me as I transitioned into "retired" life so did the other forums for differant hobbies and intrests. But as some have said the forums gave way in many cases to one of the other "social media" places and then fell out of favor. Thank you to the mods here who do a good job of keeping things on track!

Yes. Most of the niche forums lost traffic to FB or Reddit which is a horrible layout for in-depth continued threads and to search and/or respond to old topics in catalogs of specific forum categories. Instead everyone starts new ones that quickly crowd on top of each other and become incessant and repetitive. Here today, buried tomorrow. Very impersonal.

 

[CincyDave]

I've noticed the "disable ad blocker" message coming up more and more. Some sites let you continue without disabling, others don't. I just move on, then.

OP mentioned the IMDB discussion feature being taken away. I used that a lot and was sorry to see it go. I did find another site called moviechat which is similar, but not as much content as the old IMDB discussions had. Also, a site I've used is thisisbarry which explains in detail some of the more bizzare confusing movie plots.

 

[target2019]

The internet continues to evolve.

One who groks can be found where they are best needed.

Grok means to understand something deeply and on an intuitive level, to understand something thoroughly and beyond logic, to establish a deep rapport with someone. The word grok was coined by Robert A. Heinlein who wrote Stranger in a Strange Land. In the novel, grok is a Martian loan word that literally means to drink, but is used to indicate a situation in which one possesses a deep intuitive and spiritual understanding of something. Grok is a verb, related words are groks, grokked, grokking. Most popular in the 1960s, the word grok is still fairly popular among technical and computer workers, as well as scientists. https://grammarist.com/usage/grok/

 

[Markola]

The core problem is, people expect all content on the internet to be free. It’s not. Someone has to pay for the server space and updates, etc.

Raise your hand if you have any idea who pays for the Early Retirement Forum for your use every day? I have no idea but someone is paying for it.

 

[JoeWras]

Yes. Most of the niche forums lost traffic to FB or Reddit which is a horrible layout for in-depth continued threads and to search and/or respond to old topics in catalogs of specific forum categories. Instead everyone starts new ones that quickly crowd on top of each other and become incessant and repetitive. Here today, buried tomorrow. Very impersonal.

You summed up the basis of my venting right here.

OP mentioned the IMDB discussion feature being taken away. I used that a lot and was sorry to see it go. I did find another site called moviechat which is similar, but not as much content as the old IMDB discussions had. Also, a site I've used is thisisbarry which explains in detail some of the more bizzare confusing movie plots.

Thanks for the pointers. I'll check.

 

[MRG]

I mourn what happened to Reddit. I've been a big user, and many of my favorite subs are unusable. I've just unsuscribed to the ones who are still NSFW only or pictures of John Oliver.

There's one coffee sub, r/espresso that's still alive, but r/coffee is useless now.

 

[MichaelB]

Maybe start a thread, Useful sites for hobby XXX?

Good idea, feel free to start one.

The core problem is, people expect all content on the internet to be free. It’s not. Someone has to pay for the server space and updates, etc.

Raise your hand if you have any idea who pays for the Early Retirement Forum for your use every day? I have no idea but someone is paying for it.

ER Forum is ad-supported.

 

[rk911]

There are still useful forums out there besides this one.

- www.irv2.com (Recreational Vehicles)
- www.rv.net (Recreational Vehicles)
- www.jlwranglerforums.com (Jeep Wranglers)
- www.jeepforum.com (All things Jeep)
- www.radioreference.com (Amateur radio, scanners, etc)
- www.rvtravel.com
- www.pilotsofamerica.com

Those are the primary forums I read on a daily basis. Don't use YouTube much. No Facebook, Instagram, TikTok but I do have a twitter account.