Too Frugal - Anybody Else Struggle Spending Too LITTLE?

[RobbieB]

OK

 

[Gumby]

Are you the Gumby who had that web site with all those spreadsheet files and a lot of them financially oriented? ... a vague memory from the past. I seem to remember that Gumby had an academic background.

Not me. I have been a Navy submariner, a nuclear engineer, and a lawyer, but never an academic.

 

[REWahoo]

Are you the Gumby who had that web site with all those spreadsheet files and a lot of them financially oriented? ... a vague memory from the past. I seem to remember that Gumby had an academic background.

That was Gummy, not Gumby.

 

[sengsational]

Never had cable, but buy the freshest organic apples of my favorite varieties without even looking at the price. When it came to groceries, I've always been a "buy the best food" person.

More importantly, what does this mean?

Reddit beer money activities,

 

[Lsbcal]

Not me. I have been a Navy submariner, a nuclear engineer, and a lawyer, but never an academic.

That is quite a career mix. Thanks for being a good administrator too.

 

[Lsbcal]

That was Gummy, not Gumby.

Ah, now the pieces fall into place.

 

[street]

Not me. I have been a Navy submariner, a nuclear engineer, and a lawyer, but never an academic.

A very interesting career you have had. Congratulations!

I also thank you for your moderator work you do a great job!

 

[ncbill]

I get this every time I talk about the farm. "Oy! The prices!"

Since I eat mostly fish and tropical fruit, that's free. If I had to, I could live on just avocados. I've cut down a few hundred avocado trees because it's better than walking on guacamole.

Property taxes are high but only because the property reverted from agricultural to residential when I bought it. Once I get this place recertified AG, taxes will be less than Las Vegas. And since I bought the place when Kilauea was blowing lava all over the south side of the island, I was the only person who put an offer in. The state income tax doesn't affect me because I don't have an income -- and won't until proceeds from selling coffee exceed expenses restoring this farm.

As for Las Vegas, that place is dirt cheap. I couldn't stand living there. But it was cheap. And salaries are high because that's the only way to entice people to live in an inhospitable desert. There are loads of people who manage to lose all their money there -- but that's a self control issue, not a cost of living issue.

"working farm" exemption can be very valuable if your state has one.

Here you only need to generate, IIRC, ~$1,000/year in agricultural revenue (not profit) to qualify

Friend bought a 50+ acre farm and sells hay & goats to meet the threshold.

That way his family has the use of a good chunk of land but only has to pay property tax on the farmhouse and the land it occupies.

 

[Rianne]

It's high time frugality is a compliment and not an insult. Like the word, "cheap" gets me. My DH is frugal smart. I used to get embarrassed in front of certain family members who spend money like there's no tomorrow (pardon the expression, some people believe that). But now, who's NW is bigger? Hmmm?

 

[Sojourner]

I realize that I am unnecessarily frugal. For example, we have never had cable tv. I recently subscribed to Netflix. Last night, when we were deciding what to watch, DH picked something from a free streaming service to watch. I reminded him that I was canceling Netflix at the end of the month and if there was anything he wanted to see he should go ahead and watch it now.

Really? I can well afford Netflix but I am super careful about anything that is an ongoing expense.

I have a history of excessive frugality (see here), but in recent years I've started to loosen the purse strings a bit. IMHO, what's the point of being FIREd if you can't spend a little money on creature comforts like Netflix? The trick is to identify what's important to you, what brings you joy, and figure out how to incorporate those things into your life in a reasonably affordable way. For me, watching some good TV every night while making and eating dinner is a very comforting thing, so I would never be without Netflix (or similar) just to save $13/month. Other examples might be having a car, or a washer/dryer, or high-speed Internet. None of those things is a necessity, and you can save lots of money by forgoing them. But if you can easily afford to have them, and they bring you some measure of happiness/joy/comfort/convenience, then why deny yourself?

 

[ScoopKona]

Here you only need to generate, IIRC, ~$1,000/year in agricultural revenue (not profit) to qualify

I wish it was that simple. Hawaii has seen enough "we're farmers! give us our damned tax break" moochers that they have an inspection process.

In the future, I'll write up a farm plan, with a map. And an inspector will drop by to make sure I'm doing what I say I'm doing.

I have cleared and am farming 0.07% of my land. So I can currently get a tax break on 0.07%. It's not even worth my time to file.

 

[RobbieB]

That's easy, because you enjoy having the money rather than things or activities.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Never had cable, but buy the freshest organic apples of my favorite varieties without even looking at the price. When it came to groceries, I've always been a "buy the best food" person.

I usually buy organic apples at the local dollar store for $1 a pound. Last week they didn't have organic apples but had organic pears for $1.25 a pound so I bought those instead. They also had conventional papaya and tangelos for $1 a pound, kiwis for 6 for $2 and bananas were around 60 cents.

More importantly, what does this mean?

Beermoney: Make money online (reddit.com)

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I have a history of excessive frugality (see here), but in recent years I've started to loosen the purse strings a bit. IMHO, what's the point of being FIREd if you can't spend a little money on creature comforts like Netflix? The trick is to identify what's important to you, what brings you joy, and figure out how to incorporate those things into your life in a reasonably affordable way. For me, watching some good TV every night while making and eating dinner is a very comforting thing, so I would never be without Netflix (or similar) just to save $13/month. Other examples might be having a car, or a washer/dryer, or high-speed Internet. None of those things is a necessity, and you can save lots of money by forgoing them. But if you can easily afford to have them, and they bring you some measure of happiness/joy/comfort/convenience, then why deny yourself?

+1. Streaming services are good value for us per hour of entertainment. But we do rotate which ones we subscribe to and look for specials. Like we just finished everything we each wanted to watch on Disney+ so cancelled that after one month and will subscribe to Paramount+ for one month next.

I have a dryer but like to hang clothes out. It helps get in some extra NEAT activity. I don't like to vacuum or mop floors so I have 3 robotic vacuums and 2 moppers, which probably aren't frugal because of the electricity use, but still cheaper than a housekeeping service.

 

[aja8888]

+1. I don't like to vacuum or mop floors so I have 3 robotic vacuums and 2 moppers, which probably aren't frugal because of the electricity use, but still cheaper than a housekeeping service.

Most housekeeping services around here do much more than floors. Ours cleans an scrubs the bathroom (toilets, shower, etc), dust our blinds and furniture, cleans the kitchen completely, makes up fresh beds, takes out trash, etc, etc.

 

[pb4uski]

... in recent years I've started to loosen the purse strings a bit. IMHO, what's the point of being FIREd if you can't spend a little money on creature comforts like Netflix? The trick is to identify what's important to you, what brings you joy, and figure out how to incorporate those things into your life in a reasonably affordable way. For me, watching some good TV every night while making and eating dinner is a very comforting thing, so I would never be without Netflix (or similar) just to save $13/month. Other examples might be having a car, or a washer/dryer, or high-speed Internet. None of those things is a necessity, and you can save lots of money by forgoing them. But if you can easily afford to have them, and they bring you some measure of happiness/joy/comfort/convenience, then why deny yourself?

+1. We've loosened the spigots some too... in the past year we've added satellite radio in the truck that we use for traveling, WSJ and NYT subscriptions, and 4 streaming services, etc. ... all totaled about $645 a year which is peanuts in the whole scheme of our total annual spending but a nice bump in daily convenience.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Most housekeeping services around here do much more than floors. Ours cleans an scrubs the bathroom (toilets, shower, etc), dust our blinds and furniture, cleans the kitchen completely, makes up fresh beds, takes out trash, etc, etc.

Of course, but without having to do the floors and DH sharing in the rest of the house work, it makes the rest pretty manageable without having to pay for outside help, and a good way to fit in some extra steps and calorie burning.

 

[Koolau]

That was Gummy, not Gumby.

Ahhh yes. Gummy! He has left the building, but was the coolest Canadian I ever got to "know." His web site Gummy-stuff is at least partially still available here https://www.financialwisdomforum.org/gummy-stuff/gummy_stuff.htm

Here is just a small example of the (from practical to esoteric to just-interesting) musings of Gummy. https://www.financialwisdomforum.org/gummy-stuff/lithium.htm

Some of us here "grew up" with Gummy back in the day. Glad someone reminded me. I haven't looked at the archived site for a couple of years. RIP Gummy.

Oh... Returning you now, etc.

 

[Letj]

Not me. I have been a Navy submariner, a nuclear engineer, and a lawyer, but never an academic.

Wow Gumby. How brilliant. What a career.

 

[Christine]

Short version: I'm too frugal (cheap?) and struggle with spending my money.

So, my questions for anybody reading and/or interested:

1. Am I the only one that struggles with spending money?
2. Does anybody else have problems with being "too frugal"?
3. How does one overcome these kinds of struggles?

Some time this spring I stopped spending. And I've only just realized this.

I don't really get why - perhaps because the markets are down - but my personal economy is doing just fine and while lower valuations might mean less money to spend eventually I still have plenty - much more than I planned on having when I retired.

In 2000 and 2008 I was working and those downturns did not really register. So perhaps there is some fear of the unknown and anxiety in play?


I have a pension too and even spend less than that!


Not that being frugal is bad in it self. But I have saved and invested - and it seems silly not to use it. I need to get myself out of this funk.

 

[Koolau]

Some time this spring I stopped spending. And I've only just realized this.

I don't really get why - perhaps because the markets are down - but my personal economy is doing just fine and while lower valuations might mean less money to spend eventually I still have plenty - much more than I planned on having when I retired.

In 2000 and 2008 I was working and those downturns did not really register. So perhaps there is some fear of the unknown and anxiety in play?


I have a pension too and even spend less than that!


Not that being frugal is bad in it self. But I have saved and invested - and it seems silly not to use it. I need to get myself out of this funk.

I hear you. Even though I have plenty, I find it almost instinctive to cut back due to higher prices. We started to eat out more after the brunt of Covid was behind us, but now that the inflated prices are obvious (25% to 30%) I just find it difficult to spend in that fashion. I know I'm not taking it with me, but it becomes such a habit to be frugal (okay, maybe its really just being cheap). In any case, it's not easy to change long-held habits. YMMV

 

[NW-Bound]

Last year, we decided to increase our gifting and charity donations. Have not rescinded that decision.

We never really splurge on ourselves, so there's nothing there to cut back. Same old, same old.


PS. I am on the planning stage for a month-long European trip in late summer this year. We may loosen the purse string a bit compared to past trips, even though we never traveled with a budget. But this time, maybe we will stay in better hotels, eat in fancier restaurants.

 

[RobbieB]

Good for you!

Blow That Dough -

 

[NW-Bound]

No, it will not amount to BTD.

To me, BTD is when it drives your WR to more than 4%.

I am nowhere near that point. Just taking baby steps.

 

[Koolau]

No, it will not amount to BTD.

To me, BTD is when it drives your WR to more than 4%.

I am nowhere near that point. Just taking baby steps.

Wow, if BTD is WR over 4%, I haven't done that since I first retired and performed 2 home rehabs in 3 years.

(Don't tell RobbieB about the 4% rule of BTD. After all, BTD looms large in his legend!)