Too Frugal - Anybody Else Struggle Spending Too LITTLE?

[braumeister]

My uncle, now 92 yo who was extremely frugal all his life. He tells me that he now regrets it but even now, health failing, he will not spend money where he needs it. A relative has the ability to spend uncle's money to make his last years more comfortable, he is also known in the family for being cheap will not spend the money. I've made phone calls to try to get help in the matter but my effort was fended off. I don't get it.

For some people, and I have a relative in this category, it's simply a matter of living their life on their own terms. Taking advice of any kind is just a non-starter.

 

[elisap]

For some people, and I have a relative in this category, it's simply a matter of living their life on their own terms. Taking advice of any kind is just a non-starter.

Yep, it is a nonstarter for sure. I've tried (wasted effort), now I'm not taking her calls and won't return them. I won't accept her terms or let it roll any longer.

 

[NW-Bound]

Years ago, I read a few books by Andrew Tobias looking for investment advice. What I found was more life philosophy than how to invest.

I remember an example he gave was this. Not taking an overpriced beverage out of the minibar in your hotel room and walking down across the street to get one from a convenience store is frugal, not cheap.

Anyway, the only actual advice about investing I got from his book was that there was no such thing as a high reward that is risk-free. A potential ten-bagger stock comes with a high risk of going bankrupt. I have been looking and buying something that can return 20+% the next year, and that has served me well although even that is not certain.

 

[anothercog]

My parents are too darn frugal. They can be generous with others but are too darn stingy to spend on themselves. They just arrived yesterday to visit me after a cross-country flight. They usually pick the cheapest flight regardless of how bad the itinerary is. They didn't arrive until 2:30a and are wiped out and complained about being shoved in like sardines on their economy class flight.

I keep telling them to fly first class but they always brush it off saying its too expensive or they don't want to spend my inheritance. Between a pension, RMDs and social security they probably have $400k coming in and only spend around $80k. I keep reminding that time and quality of life are more important than saving at this point in life (they are mid-70s). It's just a mindset they can't break.

 

[SecondCor521]

This general trend was pointed out in the "Die With Zero" book in a stark and relatively effective way - people's net worth continues to rise by decade of age until perhaps age 75 or 80 (I don't recall exactly - check the book if you want precision).

I'm 52 and already have the disease. I can mentally see the problem but emotionally have trouble implementing the fix. I can make arguments for frugality but they seem like rationalizations, even to me.

 

[Bunker]

My parents are too darn frugal. They can be generous with others but are too darn stingy to spend on themselves. They just arrived yesterday to visit me after a cross-country flight. They usually pick the cheapest flight regardless of how bad the itinerary is. They didn't arrive until 2:30a and are wiped out and complained about being shoved in like sardines on their economy class flight.

I keep telling them to fly first class but they always brush it off saying its too expensive or they don't want to spend my inheritance. Between a pension, RMDs and social security they probably have $400k coming in and only spend around $80k. I keep reminding that time and quality of life are more important than saving at this point in life (they are mid-70s). It's just a mindset they can't break.

My Mom, 76 now, is the same way, a life-long habit that rubbed off on me as well, although her mantra now centers around preserving a modest inheritance for us.



Last visit before COVID, we had the usual honest talk about finances, and for the first time, she lamented a bit about how tight her monthly budget had become. I suggested she de-emphasize the inheritance and loosen up a bit accordingly. She's still in relatively good shape, drives, has a small circle of active friends her age, enjoys wandering around second-hand shops, gardening out in the back yard, etc.


She finally agreed, albeit with a touch of guilt, so I followed through supportively, "OK, good for you, Mom! How much extra per month would you like to set up?". She paused thoughtfully then replied,"$100."

 

[daylatedollarshort]

According to the happiness studies, people are happiest when they have more than their reference group. I suspect in a way it was an advantage growing up in blue collar, paycheck to paycheck kind of household, because it simply doesn't take a lot for DH and I to be happy. I think we still have that kind of life as our reference group. Even though I live in a high cost of living place now, I know there is a big world out here of low and middle class households. I lived in a state where most people probably lived like The Conner family. It feels great now to have enough money to not have to work or worry about money. Like for me the 80/20 on cars is not so much a luxury car but just not having a beater that breaks down all the time and no money for repairs, but instead owning reliable cars that mostly just need routine maintenance and the money to pay for that maintenance.

We've been pretty happy living on mainly SS and pensions, but I decided to spend a ~1%, maybe it will even turn into a 2%, withdrawal rate just for December for entertaining, subsidizing air fares and holiday gifts for the kids and it seems decadent.

 

[teetee]

I am happy when I can barely get by with minimum amount of expenditure and effort.

But if I want to avoid putting effort, I usually have to spend more.

I used to choose less expenditure over effort (and drove my car until the gas tank started to leak and kept driving for a couple of weeks until it is no longer legal to drive without passing the safety inspection). Now I chose less effort over minimum spending. Knowing my decisions save me from all the troubles is one way to make me happier.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[skyking1]

changing a lifetime of habits is not just hard, it is daunting. I proposed business class seats on our next future trip to the UK and DW said no way. I figure since our travel has been nil with covid and her working too much, it would wash out in the long run for travel spending. She was NOT buying that.

 

[steelyman]

If you’re concerned about being too frugal you can always follow the “Blow That Dough!” (aka “Keeping Up With The Jones!”) thread for ideas.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

If you’re concerned about being too frugal you can always follow the “Blow That Dough!” (aka “Keeping Up With The Jones!”) thread for ideas.

I think you meant "Keeping Up With RobbieB"!!

 

[NW-Bound]

changing a lifetime of habits is not just hard, it is daunting. I proposed business class seats on our next future trip to the UK and DW said no way. I figure since our travel has been nil with covid and her working too much, it would wash out in the long run for travel spending. She was NOT buying that.

We both are born with frugal blood, and the only business seats we ever had were paid for by our megacorps. We are not big and tall people, and the coach seats are fine for us. All I want is to be able to recline a bit more into a more comfortable position to sleep. The seat does not have to fold back flat into a bed.

A few years ago, when I proposed business class seats to my wife, she said it cost too much money, and that money could have been used to help other people. We have been spending quite a bit on charity donations and gifts. The amount of charity donations and gifts has been about the same as what we spent on travel, as cumulative amounts ever since I kept track via Quicken in 2012.

Last year, she agreed to the business seats. But we have not been able to go anywhere. Then, recently out of curiosity I checked out the airfare to Europe, and told my wife that premium economy seats did not look bad as they reclined quite a bit more than coach. The price is $1300 a seat vs. $3600.

To my surprise, my wife said "No, business class it is". I could not believe it.

 

[NW-Bound]

I think you meant "Keeping Up With RobbieB"!!

I do not dream of keeping up with Robbie's eating.

I cannot eat that much. And I don't like caviar.

 

[skyking1]

Congrats NW-Bound, that is a small victory. I will have to settle for the premium economy seats for DW and I. She can handle that. We are big people at 5'9" and 6'2". My shoulder is in the aisle and I have to consciously suck it in and lean to not get creamed by a 200 pound beverage cart. They hurt!

 

[RetiredHappy]

A few years ago, when I proposed business class seats to my wife, she said it cost too much money, and that money could have been used to help other people. We have been spending quite a bit on charity donations and gifts.

Last year, she agreed to the business seats.

We strongly believe that charity begins at home. For us, it is always business and first class, never economy unless it is a non-stop 1-hr flight. We are too old or creaky to fly any other way.

 

[kgtest]

Hi everyone, this is my first post.



I just found this community today while searching Google, and after reading a few interesting threads decided to join.

I feel like there are a lot of like-minded people in here, but I'm wondering if one aspect of my perspective might be an outlier?

Short version: I'm too frugal (cheap?) and struggle with spending my money.

I'm in my 40's and "mostly" retired. I have a small business that doesn't take much time, but generates pretty good cash-flow. In addition, I have a lot of diverse investments.

My parents were both SUPER frugal. Even to the point where they died with a LOT of money. They could have had a much better life (and relationship with each other, family, and friends) had they spent more more and worried and stressed less about money.

You'd think I would have learned from that, and made better choices. Unfortunately, it's just ingrained in me to be frugal, which has also impacted my life and my relationships.

To try and force a different perspective, I've even put together a spreadsheet with "worst-case" scenarios, i.e., stock market tanks, business fails, house value plummets, kid's college is 5x more than the average, etc. etc. etc.

Basically: "If I live another 40-50 years, and worst-case most things falls apart, how much will I be able to spend monthly?"

... and even in that case, I'm still going to be just fine.

So, my questions for anybody reading and/or interested:

1. Am I the only one that struggles with spending money?
2. Does anybody else have problems with being "too frugal"?
3. How does one overcome these kinds of struggles?

I'm honestly not trying to "humble-brag" or whatever the kids say. I'm very grateful that I have the opportunity to even have this "problem"... it definitely feels better than worrying about living month-to-month and not having the flexibility and safety that money can provide. I just wish I could overcome some of the frugality issues, and I'm very curious if I'm a statistical outlier in this group or no?

Looking forward to your thoughts and replies!

I was fairly frugal until my sister just passed away a few months ago. She was always a saver and at age 47 leaving behind 3 children as a single mother it was probably a good thing she was so frugal and such a good businesswomen to build the nestegg she did have.

We used to always discuss business, real estate and investing when she was healthy..but as soon as she became ill enough, the conversations changed to more important life things like how my friends were coming along and how the family is doing. The past three months we didn't discuss anything to do with money, as it simply did not matter. She/we knew the end was coming and the cancer was not going to digress. She kinda taught me what is really important in life, and its not about saving every last penny and being frugal to a fault. I loosened up the strings a bit, saved a little bit less this year, and enjoyed some of the wealth we had spent years feverishly accumulating.

I think I spent almost $16,000 on vacations, threw a big 40th birthday, put a $40,000 deck/patio/landscaping project on the back of the house and didn't say no very often to the wants of my children this year. DW got a little nervous, but understands and see's that the bills are still getting paid...we just saved less and socked away less, because we can.

If you can't, you can't. I say, treat yourself and worry less if you can.

We earned over $300,000 this year so we could easily afford all of this. YMMV.

 

[NW-Bound]

We strongly believe that charity begins at home. For us, it is always business and first class, never economy unless it is a non-stop 1-hr flight. We are too old or creaky to fly any other way.

To me, that's more like self-indulgence than "charity at home".

Still, with the generosity of the market god, we may be able to treat ourselves at the same time we increase the charity donation and gift giving.

 

[steelyman]

I think you meant "Keeping Up With RobbieB"!!

It’s more Thurston Howell III. Amusing.

 

[RobbieB]

Yeah, he has a much bigger boat than I.

 

[Bunker]

Interesting comments on airline travel class, relative to how a person's financial condition in life can alter thinking process about temporary, discretionary spending.


During the good middle-aged years, riding in the front the bus on the Corporate dole as a former, humble military enlisted man, I would occasionally walk back to Economy to remind myself where I'd come from, and at the same time, grimace trying to ignore the creeping notion that we would probably wind up back there again, someday.



Which is exactly what happened several years later when I left work, and began the slow, mental march back to, dare I say, "normal" thinking.



With a modest pension covering our living expenses, dividend flows available for discretion, life was still pretty good, so we continued flying back to the US for annual vacations in Business, also in part because I couldn't shake the mental image of flying long-haul Economy. Alas, reduced travel frequency began chipping away at our airline FFP status, so after maybe 3 or 4 years, bit the bullet and compromised into Premium Economy; which was still ok on our Asian carrier, and they kindly upgraded us into Business for 2 more annual Trans-Pac flights.... but I knew it was a fleeting reprieve on our inevitable slide down the slippery slope toward Economy.


For the last trip to the US before COVID hit, looking at the escalating costs, the old, familiar thought hit me like a echo:


"Why spend $10~$12,000 just to get there and back? Suck It Up for 19 hours, and you'll have more to spend on fun and shopping for things that last for years, unlike a temporary airplane ride."


With that, I booked us in regular Economy, coming full-circle back to the the rationalization from my early 20s and 30s, knowingly jamming myself into an Economy sardine can amidst crying babies and surly flight attendants for 12-hour+ flights. Welcome (back) to the Suck. LOL.

 

[tmm99]

Airfare for my international flight is around $1K on the economy class, but it would be more than $6K on the business. Not sure if I can justify the cost difference. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I could just buy three economy seats instead ($3K) and lie down?

I've done the economy plus (prime economy or whatever you call) on a couple of different airlines, but that doesn't add much of anything.

 

[flyingaway]

Airfare for my international flight is around $1K on the economy class, but it would be more than $6K on the business. Not sure if I can justify the cost difference. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I could just buy three economy seats instead ($3K) and lie down?

I've done the economy plus (prime economy or whatever you call) on a couple of different airlines, but that doesn't add much of anything.

I always buy the cheapest seats. When I was an elite member on whatever airliners' list, I usually could upgrade myself into an economy plus class.

 

[flyingaway]

We strongly believe that charity begins at home. For us, it is always business and first class, never economy unless it is a non-stop 1-hr flight. We are too old or creaky to fly any other way.

I believe this too. I give money to my parents annually and pay for their care. I also give money to my children so that they do not have to be stressful with their lives.

 

[tb001]

Airfare for my international flight is around $1K on the economy class, but it would be more than $6K on the business. Not sure if I can justify the cost difference. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I could just buy three economy seats instead ($3K) and lie down?

I've done the economy plus (prime economy or whatever you call) on a couple of different airlines, but that doesn't add much of anything.

In theory buying a row is great, but in reality they will absolutely take that seat away from you. Maybe if you could claim you were large enough to need some seats you might be able to finagle it. Or borrow a kid.

 

[tmm99]

In theory buying a row is great, but in reality they will absolutely take that seat away from you. Maybe if you could claim you were large enough to need some seats you might be able to finagle it. Or borrow a kid.

I didn't know that that could happen. But at the same time, I cannot imagine hogging three seats if the flight is full and everyone in the economy seats is sitting like tinned sardines. One time, I was on a flight that was 10% filled. I booked a premium economy seat which meant, although the seat next to me was vacant, I couldn't raise the armrest, so I was stuck, while people in economy seats could raise the armrests and were taking up all three seats to sleep. That's what gave me the idea.

I still cannot justify the business seat costing over 6x the economy seat though.