Trying to save MIL's financial life... should I bother?

Achiever and Joss,

I think that if you read some of my previous posts you will see that I have no intention to keep preaching to her. I've tried, I've failed, Let's move on. Whatever situation she ends up finding herself in, she'll have to deal with on her own. I think most people on this board agree that I am wasting my time with her. And there is nothing I hate more than wasting time...

Not to mention a potential lawsuit she'll slap you with if you don't "rescue her". Since she doesn't get along all that well with HER DAUGHTER, you're on an island, and the tide is coming in...........:p:eek:

You guys may think I'm joking, but I've seen it happen among family members..........:(
 
Most LTC policies have a the insured list a person to contact in case the premium isn't paid. Find out if that section is 'up to date'. Have your wife listed as that secondary person. Were I you if I received such a notice I would first follow up with MIL and if all fails pay it yourself.
 
Realistically, you might as well decide whether you feel like writing checks or which room she'll be staying in. At the end of the day, family is family and if the MIL runs out of cash, you'll be taking care of the results.

Speak for yourself. :cool:

I have a sister who is a good person and all that, but spends her money as fast as it comes in, takes a lot of time off, and generally enjoys life to the fullest, regardless of the future. I don't have any intention of offering financial assistance later on ... that is simply not the purpose of my savings and investments.

At the end of the day, competent adults are responsible for their own decisions and if family members run out of cash, they will be stuck with the results.
 
FIREdreamer,

I think you've gotten a reasonable consensus of the forum that you are making a mistake continuing to be the "financial advisor" to your MIL when she ignores your suggestions.

I'm personally amazed that you are so concerned when your DW "isn't close to her mother." Is her maiden name, perhaps, Robinson? :D

You are setting yourself up for problems. They my be legal as FinanceDude alluded to or you my become her emotional whipping boy as she pleads for the cash you let her squander. Why in the name of anyone are you setting yourself up to be in that position. :confused:

If you love being an ignored preacher for "the way" have fun. When you don't have a receptive pupil, it's best to move on. If my wife didn't care a flip for her mother, I'd be ER'd and living 3 states away. What's your problem? :confused:

It's time to move on.....

2B
 
I'm personally amazed that you are so concerned when your DW "isn't close to her mother." Is her maiden name, perhaps, Robinson?[

:eek: sick...

The real reason why I tried to help her with her finances was not so much charity than it was fear of her squandering her savings in no time and then wanting to move in with us and live off of us...

As I said before I am not concerned with her suing me (read post #44).
 

Thank you. :)

The basic question remains. Why are you still worrying about "her money" when she has rejected your advice on spending? If DW has no intention of "saving her," why are you continuing to hang in there. You have no real skin in the game if you walk away.

No one has said you weren't doing the right thing in trying to get her to control her spending but you can't make her change. She's a spendaholic and will have to hit her own personal bottom before she is ready. If you hang around giving "investment advice," you are one step away from being an enabler.
 
The basic question remains. Why are you still worrying about "her money" when she has rejected your advice on spending? If DW has no intention of "saving her," why are you continuing to hang in there. You have no real skin in the game if you walk away.

It all started after the divorce. My MIL and wife are both clueless when it comes to money and so it seemed natural for me to step in at that point to help my MIL sort out her post-divorce financial mayheim (my wife is my MIL's only family). At this point she was extremely worried about her financial situation and asked me to come up with a savings plan which would allow her to secure her own retirement ("I don't want to be a burden on you guys" she said...). So I did come up with a plan which would ensure she could continue taking care of herself in the future without relying on us financially. She also wanted me to keep monitoring the situation to make sure she kept making progress towards her goal.
Well in the first 3 months she was following my advice and it looked like she was learning something and was commited to build up a nice retirement cushion for herself so everything was OK. But then she started slowly drifting away from the budget we worked out for her. At our first 6 month review session, I realized that she was now spending a lot more than what she was supposed to. Any attempt to show her that she was derailing her own retirement plans by overspending failed. At that point I realized that now that the shock of the divorce was fading away, she was reverting back to her former self (no budget, spend spend spend until the checking account is empty)...
When I went home that night I had a talk with my wife. For the first time we talked about what she was intending to do with her mom when the day of reckoning finally arrived. I thought up to that point that she would say something like "well, then I would like her to move in with us so that we can take care of her", because that's probably what I would have said. But to my surprise she said that she would not step in because of her mom's irresponsible behavior.
So at that point I felt like it was a waste of time for me to continue supervising my MIL's finances since neither my wife nor my MIL seemed concerned about the possibility of my MIL going bankrupt. But I felt a bit uneasy to just give up on her and watch the train wreck slowly when I knew it did not have to be that way (and don't forget that after all she is still family and it is difficult to just give up entirely on family members, at least for me it is)... Hence my original post... Now it is clear that I should step aside and let her make her own choices.
 
I think one way, maybe the only way, to save her is to have the cash deposited into a retirement account immediately after she receives the alimony check. Then she "can't" spend it all.

If she spends the checking account down to zero every month, then the retirement contribution has already been made.

Anyway, I read the whole thread. Good luck.

-CC
 
I think one way, maybe the only way, to save her is to have the cash deposited into a retirement account immediately after she receives the alimony check. Then she "can't" spend it all.

CCdaCE,

That's exactly what I have her do right now. She gets her alimony payment by direct deposit on her checking account on the first of the month, and 2-3 days later a set amount of money is automatically transferred to her retirement accounts at VG. But there is a weakness in the system: she can always log on to VG's website to cancel an upcoming transfer or to lower the amount to be transferred if she plans on spending more during the upcoming month. There is nothing I can do about that. She started saving about $1800 a month, we are now at $1000, and she is talking about lowering it to just $500 a month (according to my calculation she would need to save about $1700 a month to be able to keep paying her "basic" expenses in 10 years).
 
Well, you tried.

Well, you tried....

Can't do much more than go the direct transfer route, IMO. :D

-CC
 
Look, I don't write checks on her behalf (and I certainly don't have her checkbook), she makes her own transactions, writes her own checks, makes her own decisions as to what she spends her money on and I never, never sign anything in her place. Everything I propose in terms of investments, we discuss first, I make sure she understands it and then if she agrees she takes care of buying/selling it herself. I never represented myself as a financial professional, I never entered any written or verbal agreement with her, I never made any promises, I never profited from my own advice to her, and my name or signature never appears anywhere on her financial paperwork. So as far as I am concerned she's gonna have a hell of a time proving I am responsible for her situation if she goes bankrupt... of course if she still tried to sue me (and therefore my wife) then it is clear that she will probably finish her lonely days in a God forsaken nursing home sponsored by Medicaid...


No so fast and easy sir.....all she needs is a sympathetic judge and a good lawyer.

If the attorney can PROVE you ran her finances, then you are an "unofficial fiduciary" and you are not in the clear. It matters little how things "turned out".

Plus, you're forgetting the "guilt factor" with your wife. While it may be easy for YOU to put your MIL in a nursing home on Medicaid, you wife will feel differently, trust me.......:eek:



Stranger things have happened.
 
I know you are doing your best to help her in a tough situation.

Good luck..........
 
I’ve been reading through this thread and wondering if things are really all that dire.

MIL has an income of 6k a month and is spending 4.7k a month. At age 70 she will have an income of 1.4k a month from SS. She also has 300k in invested assets and a 200k house. The income could stop at any time, and will definitely run out in 10 years.

If things continue exactly as they are then in 10 years MIL should have about 700k (assuming constant spending of 4.7k a month, and a 5% investment return), and be able to spend something like 3k a month (at 75 she might be fine with a WR > 4%) from investments and 1.4k from SS. No problem.

If something bad does happen to the income in the next 10 years, then the possibility of running out of money may seem a lot more real to her than it does now, and she will probably have an easier time spending less. In this scenario she may have to cut expenses significantly, but while the adjustment may be more severe from a financial standpoint, it will be easier for her to make psychologically when she sees the reason. You know what? If it happens, she will probably have no regrets.

Worst case is that she starts spending a lot more than 4.7k a month, stops saving entirely, and then the alimony stops because her ex decides to retire - so she sees him enjoying life while she’s eating beans. That will be tough, but she’ll still have SS and some investment income to live on, so she won’t be living out of a box. She may also get bailed out by high investment returns for the next few years, selling her house, or meeting a sugar daddy. Maybe none of those are very likely, but you never know. She may also not live to see the day of reckoning.

Most of the people around here are high-planning types that like to see a 99% probability of success in their forecasts. Not everyone is like that. A member of my family is in his 70's, spends like it’s going out of style, and is 100%+ equities (with a couple mortgages) mostly in emerging markets and biotech all managed by a professional advisor. Every once in a while he’ll ask me if I think China or India or gold is a better place for him to put money. I’ll tell him that TIPS are nice, and I like index funds, but I don’t think he has a lot of interest. I used to be worried, but this has been going on for ten years now. He’s gotten this far, and will probably end up fine. I feel worse for his wife who is several years younger, will likely outlive him by a while, and is completely uninvolved in their finances. What can you do? Make polite comments when asked, and try and stay out of it otherwise. The hardest thing is not letting it bother you, and smiling when they tell you “bonds just went down the tank, and my mongolian yak futures are up 63%! Good thing I don't take your advice!”
 
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Plus, you're forgetting the "guilt factor" with your wife. While it may be easy for YOU to put your MIL in a nursing home on Medicaid, you wife will feel differently, trust me.......:eek:

Not if her mom tries to sue us... trust me...
 
Not if her mom tries to sue us... trust me...

I'll have to believe you on that. What I was trying to say is even "semi-estranged" relationships get a whole new twist when issues arise...........
 
Most of the people around here are high-planning types that like to see a 99% probability of success in their forecasts. Not everyone is like that. A member of my family is in his 70's, spends like it’s going out of style, and is 100%+ equities (with a couple mortgages) mostly in emerging markets and biotech all managed by a professional advisor. Every once in a while he’ll ask me if I think China or India or gold is a better place for him to put money. I’ll tell him that TIPS are nice, and I like index funds, but I don’t think he has a lot of interest. I used to be worried, but this has been going on for ten years now. He’s gotten this far, and will probably end up fine. I feel worse for his wife who is several years younger, will likely outlive him by a while, and is completely uninvolved in their finances. What can you do? Make polite comments when asked, and try and stay out of it otherwise. The hardest thing is not letting it bother you, and smiling when they tell you “bonds just went down the tank, and my mongolian yak futures are up 63%! Good thing I don't take your advice!”

:D:D
 
The hardest thing is not letting it bother you, and smiling when they tell you “bonds just went down the tank, and my mongolian yak futures are up 63%! Good thing I don't take your advice!”

Screw all the advice I've gotten from you guys! Where can I get in on these mongolian yak futures?! ;)
 
In my "active investor" days I did it all. I have had some unbelieveable "scores" worthy of putting me on the cover of Money Magazine. I've also had some total disasters. I lived in self-delusion about how much I was "beating the averages" but it was mostly my selective memory that tended to block out the impact of the "insignificant losses."

Quicken changed all that. With a few key strokes I could see that my high testosterone portfolio (commodities, options, hot tips, technical analysis, fundamental analysis, trend chasing) got me somewhere between half or less of the return of the Couch Potato Investor. That was humbling.

I've been a reformed hyper-investor since the late 90's and believe me it was tough staying completely out of the tech craze. Unfortunately, I fell off the wagon in late 99 and bought a few "solid" companies -- Cisco, Lucent and Enron. They cured me and, all I can say, it was money well lost if I never go back.

I do notice that when I talk to individual "active" investors that they also seem to forget their losers. It's only the big winner last year and the big winner their latest buy is going to be.

I will concede that many great fortunes were made by people who made a big investment in many companies -- Cisco, Lucent and Enron all come to mind but it was also knowing when to get in and when to get out. I must regretably confess I am not that clever.
 
I do notice that when I talk to individual "active" investors that they also seem to forget their losers. It's only the big winner last year and the big winner their latest buy is going to be.

A BULL market creates amnesia, a BEAR market creates liars...........:D
 
[quote
Quicken changed all that. With a few key strokes I could see that my high testosterone portfolio (commodities, options, hot tips, technical analysis, fundamental analysis, trend chasing) got me somewhere between half or less of the return of the Couch Potato Investor. That was humbling.

[/quote]


Great post ! I have only one question .Since some of us women go through the same stage is it still a High Testosterone Portfolio ?
 
[quote
Great post ! I have only one question .Since some of us women go through the same stage is it still a High Testosterone Portfolio ?

I believe it's called "Estrogen Overdrive Portfolio"......:D
 
Great post ! I have only one question .Since some of us women go through the same stage is it still a High Testosterone Portfolio ?

You're allowed to call it:

Temporary Stupidity
Moments of Man-Channeling
 
Moemg;533952 Great post ! I have only one question .Since some of us women go through the same stage is it still a High Testosterone Portfolio ?[/quote said:
Absolutely! It'll put hair on your chest! :D
 
Bongo2: great post! The situation you describe is completely alien to my own nature [theme song: YouTube - Fleetwood Mac - Don't stop (thinking about tomorrow) LIVE!], but I could not agree more with your point. There certainly are many people like that; indeed, probably they are in the majority.

Most of the people on this forum will disagree heartily with the carefree approach [theme song: YouTube - Jimmy Durante presents THE GRASS ROOTS: Live for Today]; but we will get no thanks trying to convert anyone, and it is pointless to try.
 
Bongo2: great post! The situation you describe is completely alien to my own nature [theme song: YouTube - Fleetwood Mac - Don't stop (thinking about tomorrow) LIVE!], but I could not agree more with your point. There certainly are many people like that; indeed, probably they are in the majority.

Most of the people on this forum will disagree heartily with the carefree approach [theme song: YouTube - Jimmy Durante presents THE GRASS ROOTS: Live for Today]; but we will get no thanks trying to convert anyone, and it is pointless to try.

I agree but that ruins your credibility. :D
 
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