Vaccine Trials

[Popeye]

Interesting question on the multiple vaccine scenario. Here’s another thought. So if you’re in a higher risk group, you may get priority. If a second option comes along shortly after that, should you get it before everyone in lower risk groups has had a chance at a vaccination of some kind? In my mind, everyone should get a chance at one before folks start doubling up.

 

[NW-Bound]

Just hearing news of another antibody approval from Lilly. Targeted to early in the disease and it is an infusion so it will be administered only by health care personnel.

From Lilly at https://investor.lilly.com/news-rel...-antibody-bamlanivimab-ly-cov555-receives-fda

More great news, but the name, what is up with that

Bamlanivimab: Well the terminal mab part of the name indicates that it is a monoclonal antibody. Can’t say much for the rest of it. I’m not sure I can even say that!

So that’s a treatment rather than a preventative (not a vaccine). From what I’m reading monoclonal antibodies are difficult to produce in large quantities.

Yes, Bamlanivimab ( what a name!) is an antibody. On the other hand Pfizer/BioNTech product is a true vaccine, which uses mRNA to cause the human body to produce the required antibody.

To a layman like myself, the end result is the same, but the difference is perhaps that of lasting effects. An injected antibody may not last as long as what the human body has learned to produce by itself. Both are extremely beneficial.

And by the way, another biotech company called Moderna also has a vaccine using mRNA. And it also has conducted trial on 30,000 participants. Results will be released later this month. Its stock price has already gone through the roof, but I did not follow this sector to even notice.

PS. The vaccine candidate by Pfizer/BioNTech is observed to produce higher level of antibody in tested subjects than in the bloodstream of recovered Covid patients. Older tested subjects produced lesser level of antibody than young subjects. I guess that makes sense, because old people have a weaker immune response.

 

[audreyh1]

I thought there was some sort of limitation where the people who got the first one had to wait or not get the Shingrix for a while or perhaps ever.

No - you can get both Shingrix vaccines. We got both years apart. Shingrix wasn’t available yet when we got the first one, and very quickly people were told that it was fine to also get the second - in fact it was recommended.

 

[Popeye]

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia’s Sputnik V vaccine is 92% effective at protecting people from COVID-19 according to interim trial results, the country’s sovereign wealth fund said on Wednesday, as Moscow rushes to keep pace with Western drugmakers in the race for a shot.

https://www.reuters.com/article/hea...ovid-19-vaccine-is-92-effective-idUSKBN27R0ZA

I don’t know whether this goes under good news or just “my vaccine is better than yours!” They had to go two percentage points higher than Pfizer. They just couldn’t resist.

 

[kcowan]

I get healthcare workers, but I'd put groups that are more likely to spread the virus ahead of those confined to very limited space. For example, aren't young adults the biggest spreading group?

It will probably be professional athletes first. They seem to get all of what they need (PPE, testing with quick turn around, etc.) at the drop of a hat, helmet or mask.

I vote for ME! As a cancer patient, my chemo has my immune system near zero. My WBC is below 500, normal is above 1500 with average about 2000. I'm instructed to not even shave as a nick could open me to an infection. I'm willing to arm wrestle for place in line!
However, I live in California where the governor is 'protecting' us from the political aspects of the vaccine. He won't allow distribution until his own select 11 person panel has completed the same tests the rest of the world already proves. Could be months after it's world release before we are able to get it. I think if that does happen, I'll have to make a road trip....

My order of priority would be this:

1. Healthcare workers (MDs, RNs, EMTs etc.)
2. Public Safety workers (fire and police)
3. Other essential workers who necessarily have close contact with many people (Transit workers, teachers, grocery store clerks)
4. Elderly people in congregate settings.
5. Anyone with impaired immune system.
6. Everyone else by inverse order of age.

As a category 6, I would expect to receive a vaccine sometime next summer.

Yes that is a good start at a comprehensive list. Of course there are omissions. like dentists, elected representatives...

I would qualify for category 5 but I would vote for skipro33 to be well ahead of me.

No - you can get both Shingrix vaccines. We got both years apart. Shingrix wasn’t available yet when we got the first one, and very quickly people were told that it was fine to also get the second - in fact it was recommended.

Shongrix is a good model because it also has to be refridgerated until administered.

Based on my experience with flu shot and pneumonia shot this year (bad), I am quite concerned about rollout.

 

[Chuckanut]

Originally Posted by skipro33
I
However, I live in California where the governor is 'protecting' us from the political aspects of the vaccine. He won't allow distribution until his own select 11 person panel has completed the same tests the rest of the world already proves. Could be months after it's world release before we are able to get it. I think if that does happen, I'll have to make a road trip....

Same in my state of Washington. The governor has linked us up with other states to clear the vaccine(s) before allowing it to be administered. This scares the heck out of me because it injects another layer of politics, including out-of-state politics, into the timeline for getting the vaccine.

 

[Rustic23]

https://www.kff.org/other/state-ind...0&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}

A quick search indicates about 17 million health care workers in the US. I have heard Phyzer will produce about 20 million doses a month. ( No source for that).. Just though this might add some context.

 

[Brat]

I presume that other vaccines will soon be approved so we can add to that count.

 

[gerntz]

Hi all.

Mods, feel free to fold this into another thread if it makes sense to do so.

I have a question about multiple coronavirus vaccines.

I'd like to be vaccinated against the coronavirus as best as I possibly can.

It is plausible to me that a situation may arise where the first available vaccine may not ultimately be judged to be the best vaccine. And this judgment will likely not be known for a while.

Is it a viable strategy to get the first available vaccine to be protected sooner, and then get the best vaccine later when that is generally known? Or does getting the first available vaccine somehow limit me from getting the best vaccine later - for whatever reason?

My understanding is that different vaccines are taking different tacks to stop the virus. So regardless of which one is best, I'm guessing that taking multiple vaccine designs will give the best protection. So if A's approach is 90% effective/10% ineffective, and B's different approach is 70/30, I'd judge that A & B together would be like 97% effective/ 3% ineffective (10% x 30% = 3%).

 

[gerntz]

I think we are a long way off from having to think about options. And I'm sure once the average consumer is in a position to make a decision our doctors will have that info.

Not sure what a long way off is, but I'm estimating there will multiple available by 2H 2021.

 

[gerntz]

Maybe these have been brought up, but:

- Will there be post-vaccination tests to determine how protected you are/how high your antibodies are?
- How will anyone else know you're safe to be around/have antibodies/don't need to wear a mask? Will you been given a paper or a card or have your forehead tattooed or whatever?

 

[gerntz]

Then there's the ever-present question for all vaccine shots of how sore will your arm becomes. I'm guessing lower side effects could lead some to choose a lesser protection vaccine option if people report fewer issues with it on social media (whatever that is.).

 

[gauss]

Maybe these have been brought up, but:

- Will there be post-vaccination tests to determine how protected you are/how high your antibodies are?
- How will anyone else know you're safe to be around/have antibodies/don't need to wear a mask? Will you been given a paper or a card or have your forehead tattooed or whatever?

I suspect, at least in my area of the country, that there will be no vaccination credential of any sort and that we will be required to continue to wear masks regardless if we have been vaccinated or not. I can see this going on for another year.

-gauss

 

[NW-Bound]

My order of priority would be this:

1. Healthcare workers (MDs, RNs, EMTs etc.)
2. Public Safety workers (fire and police)
3. Other essential workers who necessarily have close contact with many people (Transit workers, teachers, grocery store clerks)
4. Elderly people in congregate settings.
5. Anyone with impaired immune system.
6. Everyone else by inverse order of age.

As a category 6, I would expect to receive a vaccine sometime next summer.

Sounds good to me, although I would be in the 6th group as well.

I could not resist, but there should be a group 7 who gets vaccinated last, after everybody else. I leave it to your machination who should be put in that last group.

Finally, there's group 8 who will refuse to be vaccinated. They are self-proclaimed, so no need to identify and to classify them.

 

[MuirWannabe]

Sounds good to me, although I would be in the 6th group as well.



I could not resist, but there should be a group 7 who gets vaccinated last, after everybody else. I leave it to your machination who should be put in that last group.



Finally, there's group 8 who will refuse to be vaccinated. They are self-proclaimed, so no need to identify and to classify them.

Group 7.....politicians, and lawyers?? Or from my experience in IT, maybe it’s the IT folks. Nobody likes their IT guy.

 

[CardsFan]

Maybe this was discussed earlier, but one drawback of the Pfizer vaccine is it must be stored at -95F. Meaning, distribution will be an issue, particularly for rural areas without the facilities to do this.

 

[Aerides]

- How will anyone else know you're safe to be around/have antibodies/don't need to wear a mask? Will you been given a paper or a card or have your forehead tattooed or whatever?

No, because those could be bought/sold/forged etc. I expect that community mitigation activities will likely remain in place until we have actual results and the R0 rate drops dramatically.

 

[cyber888]

Maybe this was discussed earlier, but one drawback of the Pfizer vaccine is it must be stored at -95F. Meaning, distribution will be an issue, particularly for rural areas without the facilities to do this.

Yes, and the vaccine degrades fast above -94 F. So, problem with distribution and logistics. Novavax can match the efficacy in terms of antibodies and T cells and still be stored in regular refrigerator temperature. Maybe this is why the Pfizer CEO sold 62% of his shares on the day he announced the news a few days ago?

https://nationalpost.com/news/world...-of-shares-same-day-vaccine-announcement-made

 

[Ronstar]

My order of priority would be this:

1. Healthcare workers (MDs, RNs, EMTs etc.)
2. Public Safety workers (fire and police)
3. Other essential workers who necessarily have close contact with many people (Transit workers, teachers, grocery store clerks)
4. Elderly people in congregate settings.
5. Anyone with impaired immune system.
6. Everyone else by inverse order of age.

As a category 6, I would expect to receive a vaccine sometime next summer.

Priority order makes sense to me. I am also a category 6, but I don't expect the vaccine to be available to me for a year or more.

Our county's only hospital has what they call "limited testing availability", where they will only test those with symptoms. This is 8 months into the pandemic. Given the state of testing availability, I don't expect the vaccine availability to be much better.

 

[CardsFan]

Yes, and the vaccine degrades fast above -94 F. So, problem with distribution and logistics. Novavax can match the efficacy in terms of antibodies and T cells and still be stored in regular refrigerator temperature. Maybe this is why the Pfizer CEO sold 62% of his shares on the day he announced the news a few days ago?

https://nationalpost.com/news/world...-of-shares-same-day-vaccine-announcement-made

Well, in fairness, he filed to sell the shares in August. Which, of course makes the timing of the announcement a bit suspect. Surely he would not time it to maximize his share price

 

[Car-Guy]

Maybe this is why the Pfizer CEO sold 62% of his shares on the day he announced the news a few days ago?

Sounds really strange to me...

Another interesting/odd tidbit of info...Albert Bourla, besides being the Pfizer CEO, is a veterinarian too.... He has had numerous leadership roles at Pfizer over the years, including their Animal Health division.... Interesting too that there has been a Canine coronvirus vaccine (just for dogs - not humans) for sometime now... Not sure who invented that, but....

If I start chasing cars or howling at the moon after I get this shot, I'll know why!

 

[NW-Bound]

It is reported that Pfizer/BioNTech have reached a deal with the EU to sell 300 million doses of the vaccine.

Under the terms of the supply deal, the European countries will first purchase 200 million doses of the experimental coronavirus vaccine. Then, they will have the option to buy an additional 100 million, Pfizer said in a news release.

The European supply will come from BioNTech's manufacturing sites in Germany and Pfizer's site in Belgium. The EU deal follows agreements for 100 million doses in the U.S., 120 million doses in Japan and an undisclosed number of doses in Canada.

The price is not disclosed, but reportedly less than what the US will be paying. Cost to the US is said to be $19.50/shot.

See: https://www.investors.com/news/tech...er-inks-deal-eu-300-million-doses/?src=A00220

Interesting too that there has been a Canine coronvirus vaccine (just for dogs - not humans) for sometime now... Not sure who invented that, but....

If I start chasing cars or howling at the moon after I get this shot, I'll know why!

Or what you do at a fire hydrant.

 

[aaronc879]

It is reported that Pfizer/BioNTech have reached a deal with the EU to sell 300 million doses of the vaccine.



The price is not disclosed, but reportedly less than what the US will be paying. Cost to the US is said to be $19.50/shot.

See: https://www.investors.com/news/tech...er-inks-deal-eu-300-million-doses/?src=A00220




Or what you do at a fire hydrant.

Only 100 million for the US? With two doses per person that is only 50 million people. At least twice that many will need and want the vaccine. Why only 100 million? I hope it's not gone by the time it gets to me(a relatively healthy 41 year old).

 

[Montecfo]

Yes, and the vaccine degrades fast above -94 F. So, problem with distribution and logistics. Novavax can match the efficacy in terms of antibodies and T cells and still be stored in regular refrigerator temperature. Maybe this is why the Pfizer CEO sold 62% of his shares on the day he announced the news a few days ago?

https://nationalpost.com/news/world...-of-shares-same-day-vaccine-announcement-made

No. It was a pre-planned sale, not a decision made to time the news. Under SEC rules he can't legally trade with material inside info.

 

[cyber888]

Well, in fairness, he filed to sell the shares in August. Which, of course makes the timing of the announcement a bit suspect. Surely he would not time it to maximize his share price

I know that it was scheduled long before, but my point was .. it was easy to time the announcement to that exact pre-arranged date. They could have announced it last week or today.