Vaccine Trials

[gauss]

Finally, there's group 8 who will refuse to be vaccinated. They are self-proclaimed, so no need to identify and to classify them.

Dr. Faucci, in his CNN interview the other day, explicitly acknowledged this group in the context that, in his guesstimate, it will allow everyone who initially wants a vaccine to likely have access to it by the end of April 2021.

-gauss

 

[Montecfo]

I know that it was scheduled long before, but my point was .. it was easy to time the announcement to that exact pre-arranged date. They could have announced it last week or today.

That is true. If he were "holding" that news, until after the election for instance, releasing it no later than when he did would have been personally advantageous.

I am at this point unsure why it was not released in October. According to his prior statements they should have known by then.

Will be interesting to see if this draws scrutiny.

 

[gerntz]

No, because those could be bought/sold/forged etc. I expect that community mitigation activities will likely remain in place until we have actual results and the R0 rate drops dramatically.

How much better mitigation is there than having antibodies?

 

[Car-Guy]

That is true. If he were "holding" that news, until after the election for instance, releasing it no later than when he did would have been personally advantageous.

I am at this point unsure why it was not released in October. According to his prior statements they should have known by then.

Will be interesting to see if this draws scrutiny.

If "his" stock sale was timed to coincide with the announcement then that sounds like insider trading to me or at very least stock price manipulation. However, I suspect there are loopholes to get around that...

What concerns me is that (if) "anyone" would withhold the release of "such a vaccine" for political or monetary gain reasons...

 

[Montecfo]

Car-Guy,

Can't disagree that is what it looks like.

 

[Aerides]

- How will anyone else know you're safe to be around/have antibodies/don't need to wear a mask? Will you been given a paper or a card or have your forehead tattooed or whatever?

No, because those could be bought/sold/forged etc. I expect that community mitigation activities will likely remain in place until we have actual results and the R0 rate drops dramatically.

How much better mitigation is there than having antibodies?

Come on....

You get a vaccine and no one but you and your doctor knows it. No there won't be some central public list. So - as a SOCIETY - we keep up mitigation until the infection spread is controlled. No one is going to give special badges to the vaccinated/antibody population to give them a free pass.

 

[sengsational]

I still have the yellow card with my immunization records from when I traveled as a kid. Destination countries required it for entrance. Recently, I went to PassportHealth and got a new yellow card, and they filled it out with the immunizations they administered. I'm sure it could be forged. And no policing authority is going to want to get into differential social distancing enforcement.

 

[Gumby]

MODERATOR NOTE: Let's leave off with the conspiracy theories. Otherwise the thread gets closed.

 

[Chuckanut]

Maybe these have been brought up, but:

- Will there be post-vaccination tests to determine how protected you are/how high your antibodies are?
- How will anyone else know you're safe to be around/have antibodies/don't need to wear a mask? Will you been given a paper or a card or have your forehead tattooed or whatever?

I see a market for buttons that say I'm Vaccinated. Maybe I can wear it next to my I Voted button. Perhaps it could include a chip that others can scan and get info on the type of vaccine and when you got it.

 

[Gumby]

I'm sure I won't be first in line for a vaccine, but I'm also sure I won't be the last. I'm willing to stick with the masking and distancing until everyone who wants the vaccine can get it. It's the neighborly thing to do.

 

[Amethyst]

As to #4, I think Old people who are out and about, taking care of their own business, should be vaccinated before those in a facility. The facility people are already locked down, quarantined, and protected to a fare-thee-well. The independent Old have no such protection, especially if they don't have someone to do their shopping and so on,

My order of priority would be this:

1. Healthcare workers (MDs, RNs, EMTs etc.)
2. Public Safety workers (fire and police)
3. Other essential workers who necessarily have close contact with many people (Transit workers, teachers, grocery store clerks)
4. Elderly people in congregate settings.
5. Anyone with impaired immune system.
6. Everyone else by inverse order of age.

As a category 6, I would expect to receive a vaccine sometime next summer.

 

[NW-Bound]

Only 100 million for the US? With two doses per person that is only 50 million people. At least twice that many will need and want the vaccine. Why only 100 million? I hope it's not gone by the time it gets to me(a relatively healthy 41 year old).

Who is the buyer? The US government, most likely. Perhaps that's all the money put aside for this (almost $2 billion). Perhaps the Federal government is purchasing for its own use, and private citizens like myself have to be covered through my own insurance.

The logistics to distribute any vaccine is tough to arrange. Is there any plan in place? It has to be coordinated between the government and the private sector.

About it being gone, no, they will be cranking them out like mad. Everybody will be covered, and it's only a matter of how long to wait.

 

[Car-Guy]

I'm sure I won't be first in line for a vaccine, but I'm also sure I won't be the last. I'm willing to stick with the masking and distancing until everyone who wants the vaccine can get it. It's the neighborly thing to do.

When it's available for me (older guy but w/o any serious medical conditions) I'll take it. As I mention in some other threads, I would have volunteered for one of the earlier vaccine trails so why wouldn't I take one that's been approved.

 

[rodi]

As for the order of groups to be vaccinated I've heard 'experts' discuss that school age kids should be in the list. Lots of covid being passed around in school settings. Their immune systems are (mostly) better... but they can pass to parents/grandparents.

Not an issue for me... my high school senior has been doing virtual learning since last March and I seriously doubt he'll step foot on campus for in person classes at all this year. (We just entered the dreaded purple (bad) tier in San Diego.)

 

[audreyh1]

As to #4, I think Old people who are out and about, taking care of their own business, should be vaccinated before those in a facility. The facility people are already locked down, quarantined, and protected to a fare-thee-well. The independent Old have no such protection, especially if they don't have someone to do their shopping and so on,

Folks in a facility really aren't that well protected, because the staff is not locked down. You can't force staff to live at a facility 24/7.

 

[Chuckanut]

I'm sure I won't be first in line for a vaccine, but I'm also sure I won't be the last. I'm willing to stick with the masking and distancing until everyone who wants the vaccine can get it. It's the neighborly thing to do.

I thought in a similar way from March through May. I am willing to restrict myself so the younger folks can work and get on with their lives and keep our economy moving. But, they also decided to party, take chances and ignore the warnings of experts. So now we are literally worse off than when we started. My sacrifice has been wasted. Grrr...... Get Off My Lawn!

 

[Chuckanut]

As for the order of groups to be vaccinated I've heard 'experts' discuss that school age kids should be in the list. Lots of covid being passed around in school settings. Their immune systems are (mostly) better... but they can pass to parents/grandparents.

Maybe instead of a list of who should get it first, we should develop a list of the groups who should be at or near the end of the list.

First on the Last To Get Vaccinated list are:

1. 20 and 30 somethings who say things like "I'm young and I'm going to enjoy life. If I die, I die" all the while they are spreading corona virus to others.
2. Hard core drug dealers.
3. Mob hit men.

 

[RetireBy90]

As to number of Pfizer shots of 100M, this is by end of 2020, with another 20M per month next year. Moderna also has a product with phase 3 almost completed enough to begin evaluation, with millions of doses promised also. I just did a google of operation warp speed, and found https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explaining-operation-warp-speed/index.html
Says HHS has commitments for up to 500M doses already paid for if the vaccines are approved.

 

[NW-Bound]

As to #4, I think Old people who are out and about, taking care of their own business, should be vaccinated before those in a facility. The facility people are already locked down, quarantined, and protected to a fare-thee-well. The independent Old have no such protection, especially if they don't have someone to do their shopping and so on,

They really aren't that well protected, because the staff is not locked down. You can't force staff to live at a facility 24/7.

If one visits a nursing home, he will see how the risk of spreading a virus from the staff to the patients is very high. Many elderly inhabitants are invalid. They are spoon-fed, and need help to get out of bed to go to the toilet, or to get rolled on their wheelchair into the shower to be given a sponge bath. Heavy people need several orderlies to maneuver them in and out of bed.

There is a lot of physical contacts. If old people could take care of themselves, they would not be in a nursing home.

 

[NW-Bound]

Sounds good to me, although I would be in the 6th group as well.

I could not resist, but there should be a group 7 who gets vaccinated last, after everybody else. I leave it to your machination who should be put in that last group.

Finally, there's group 8 who will refuse to be vaccinated. They are self-proclaimed, so no need to identify and to classify them.

Group 7.....politicians, and lawyers?? Or from my experience in IT, maybe it’s the IT folks. Nobody likes their IT guy.

Ah come on! Don't pick on politicians and lawyers. Not all of them are bad. I claim neutrality on the IT guys.

I was thinking of people who refuse to take precautions against virus infection, and deny that a pandemic exists. If they are true to their word, they will not get vaccinated anyway. And it would be greater if they just stay home once they get sick, instead of come crying to the hospital.

Of course, we do not know who they are, not all of them anyway. And there's no easy way to keep track of them.

 

[aaronc879]

Maybe instead of a list of who should get it first, we should develop a list of the groups who should be at or near the end of the list.

First on the Last To Get Vaccinated list are:

1. 20 and 30 somethings who say things like "I'm young and I'm going to enjoy life. If I die, I die" all the while they are spreading corona virus to others.
2. Hard core drug dealers.
3. Mob hit men.

The counter-arguement would be that the people in group 1 should be the FIRST to get it so they don't keep spreading it to so many people

 

[MuirWannabe]

It certainly does seem to be popular to lay blame on anyone who gets Covid on their own disregard. They deserved it I guess. Serves them right. In a world where we rarely blame anyone for much of anything, it’s an interesting thing to watch.

 

[Dtail]

I see a market for buttons that say I'm Vaccinated. Maybe I can wear it next to my I Voted button. Perhaps it could include a chip that others can scan and get info on the type of vaccine and when you got it.

Well at least you don't have to pull out your WIN button currently.

 

[NW-Bound]

It certainly does seem to be popular to lay blame on anyone who gets Covid on their own disregard. They deserved it I guess. Serves them right. In a world where we rarely blame anyone for much of anything, it’s an interesting thing to watch.

Well, if you don't blame people who do phone texting while driving, then who do you blame?

But it is also true that not all Covid patients deserve to be infected. Just one misfortune, and a careful person may still get infected, the same way as driving carefully does not mean you are completely guaranteed of not getting involved in an accident. There are responsible people, and then there are jerks. What do we do?

 

[RetireBy90]

Well, if you don't blame people who do phone texting while driving, then who do you blame?

But it is also true that not all Covid patients deserve to be infected. Just one misfortune, and a careful person may still get infected, the same way as driving carefully does not mean you are completely guaranteed of not getting involved in an accident. There are responsible people, and then there are jerks. What do we do?

At Some point it is like everything else bad that can happen to you. You can take precautions and for a portion of people that will keep you safe and for a portion it isn’t enough. For those that don’t take precautions some will get bit and some won’t. I call it culling the gene pool. I Just trust those that don’t take precautions are a larger number than those that get bit.