Vanguard "Growing Pains?"

[Go-NoGo]

Tried to do a webinar yesterday at VG.

If you are referring to the "how to make retirement saving work for you" webinar yesterday, I had the same issue.

Apparently Chrome now blocks all flash content by default, you have actively allow it to run by clicking on the flash icon and then giving browser the permission for the session.

The webinar, while interesting, did not have much value to me - a lot a basic concepts that I was familiar with. I would like more in depth discussion of optimizing RMD withdrawals and tools that are available to VG customers

 

[Samething]

If you are referring to the "how to make retirement saving work for you" webinar yesterday, I had the same issue.

Apparently Chrome now blocks all flash content by default, you have actively allow it to run by clicking on the flash icon and then giving browser the permission for the session.

The webinar, while interesting, did not have much value to me - a lot a basic concepts that I was familiar with. I would like more in depth discussion of optimizing RMD withdrawals and tools that are available to VG customers

That webinar was very basic. Didn’t really get anything from it I didn’t already know.
I also viewed it on Chrome and had to manually enable flash to get the stream to start.

 

[MRG]

I gotta love this thread. My career took me into many back offices in mutual funds, banking, insurance, mortgage.... been in a 100s of different offices.

These aren't growing pains they're nothing. Folks expectations are out of line with reality.

I remember when back offices hired trash auditors, yes indeed they had to. See your live checks used to be passed around the processing area before they were processed. It was common practice for a barely over minimum wage associate to throw them out so they could go home at night. Yep, throw live checks in the trash, better then selling them to my not so good family members. [emoji111]

Used to be when any low level associate wanted a break they would "drain the queue". You know that phone queue you have been on hold in to talk with an associate? Want to go to lunch just drain the queue. Oh the callers, they'll call back sometime. What do I care? I'm hungry.

Seen back offices whose IT departments couldn't be bothered to read documentation so many of their systems were frequently down. Seen core systems down during peak times for days, some low level associate tried a maintenance task. When asked how long the system might be down, the response was "How would I know, nobody's ever run this sh*t before. How would I know when it might finish". It finished on Wednesday, unfortunately Monday and Tuesday were business days but the systems down.

A gal that worked on my team would tell stories about her Wednesday night desk checks looking for shareowners paperwork that her team hid in their desks. They didn't want to get fired for throwing paper out so they hid it. To be fair it was death claims, and they are hard to process. Besides the shareowner was dead! She said the widows would be transferred to her when they asked to speak to a supervisor. They were all the time asking about their money so they could keep the lights on and buy groceries.

 

[Rianne]

I gotta love this thread. My career took me into many back offices in mutual funds, banking, insurance, mortgage.... been in a 100s of different offices.

These aren't growing pains they're nothing. Folks expectations are out of line with reality.

I remember when back offices hired trash auditors, yes indeed they had to. See your live checks used to be passed around the processing area before they were processed. It was common practice for a barely over minimum wage associate to throw them out so they could go home at night. Yep, throw live checks in the trash, better then selling them to my not so good family members. [emoji111]

Used to be when any low level associate wanted a break they would "drain the queue". You know that phone queue you have been on hold in to talk with an associate? Want to go to lunch just drain the queue. Oh the callers, they'll call back sometime. What do I care? I'm hungry.

Seen back offices whose IT departments couldn't be bothered to read documentation so many of their systems were frequently down. Seen core systems down during peak times for days, some low level associate tried a maintenance task. When asked how long the system might be down, the response was "How would I know, nobody's ever run this sh*t before. How would I know when it might finish". It finished on Wednesday, unfortunately Monday and Tuesday were business days but the systems down.

A gal that worked on my team would tell stories about her Wednesday night desk checks looking for shareowners paperwork that her team hid in their desks. They didn't want to get fired for throwing paper out so they hid it. To be fair it was death claims, and they are hard to process. Besides the shareowner was dead! She said the widows would be transferred to her when they asked to speak to a supervisor. They were all the time asking about their money so they could keep the lights on and buy groceries.

So the movie "Office Space" is quite accurate.

 

[REWahoo]

These aren't growing pains they're nothing. Folks expectations are out of line with reality.

What, you think expecting perfection is unrealistic?

Hundreds of thousands of transactions take place without a hitch, but do we hear about those? No, we hear about the occasional blip/screw up. Of course if it involves MY money, you bet I'm going to scream bloody murder!!!

 

[Scrapr]

If you are referring to the "how to make retirement saving work for you" webinar yesterday, I had the same issue.

Apparently Chrome now blocks all flash content by default, you have actively allow it to run by clicking on the flash icon and then giving browser the permission for the session.

The webinar, while interesting, did not have much value to me - a lot a basic concepts that I was familiar with. I would like more in depth discussion of optimizing RMD withdrawals and tools that are available to VG customers

yes, that was the one. I thought I clicked on the flash logo. Maybe not. I did see some questions or a poll that looked pretty basic. Liked aimed at 30 year old savers. I too was looking for how to & which accounts to draw down. I'll wait for the 400 level class with 23 folks in it not the 101 class with 400 students

 

[travelover]

Vanguard "Growing Pains?"

So, I checked my credit union account later today and find that Vanguard has moved the whole $35,000 back to my credit union account. This is actually a windfall for me as the investment I bought in early October had lost 1% since I bought it. I never requested this action, but I think I'll keep my mouth shut. This further shakes my confidence in Vanguard.

UPDATE

Vanguard has now taken back the $35000, stuck it back into the investment that lost 1 percent and still has not reimbursed me for the credit union over draft. Kinda pizzed me off with their attitude as expressed by the last rep I spoke to.

 

[travelover]

UPDATE

Vanguard has now taken back the $35000, stuck it back into the investment that lost 1 percent and still has not reimbursed me for the credit union over draft. Kinda pizzed me off with their attitude as expressed by the last rep I spoke to.

Finally got my $30 back for the overdraft fee. Vanguard sent me a survey and I blasted them, especially the rep, by name, that claimed that they had overpaid me and had to take back "their money".

 

[RobbieB]

Haha, you should have said;

"Keep the 30 bucks, you probably need it more than me"

 

[Focus]

I am fine with very limited service from Vanguard and the low fees associated with it, but I expect them to keep addresses, reps and our money straight.

I've kinda thought about splitting our accounts across Vanguard and Fidelity for years, but never acted. Thinking seriously about it today...

I thought of starting a new thread under the title "Is Vanguard losing it?" but decided to bump this existing one instead. Midpack, I hear you.

I had such a bad experience recently trying to accomplish something not overly complex (rolling over Roth 401k funds to an existing Roth IRA) that I'm considering switching to Fidelity or Schwab after being a loyal Vanguard client for nearly 20 years.

I'm one of those folks who'd rather do everything online. In the past, anything else (a rare event) was shepherded through by the personal rep, but now Vanguard has switched to a team-oriented approach. Sounds fine on paper, but what does it mean in reality? Spending more than an hour on the phone with half a dozen associates passing the hot potato. Most of them seemed very green, and in fact, they contradicted each other.

When I wrote Vanguard to tell them they have a problem on their hands, I got a response that consisted solely of cut-and-paste boilerplate language -- all aspirational text about how much better their new system is for me compared to the previous one. Totally tone deaf.

Seriously, any reason why I shouldn't switch to Fidelity or Schwab? Are they just as bad in this respect?

 

[gwraigty]

Seriously, any reason why I shouldn't switch to Fidelity or Schwab? Are they just as bad in this respect?

I've been with Fidelity and Schwab for over a decade. No problems so far. One big advantage is that you may have a local office nearby, which gives you the ability to handle issues face to face, if needed.

 

[nwsteve]

One of the things that set Fidelity apart from Vanguard in my experience is that when you have an issue is there is person who owns it and sees that the issue is address. No "team" circus and being bounced between reps until you get someone who has the answer.
After dealing with multiple administrative Vanguard issues, we consolidated all our stuff at Fidelity. I had been splitting our investments at both but the frustration quotient got too high at Vanguard. It seems their "team" solution allows them spread out their limited expertise while still having someone to answer phones, even if that is all they can do.
A recent shift at Fido has moved all trading questions to a group focused on trading question/issues--eg moving a trade from one account to another when order filled in wrong account(user error ;-)). Logic was they wanted their Private Client teams to have move availability for advise and consulting (eg Retirement Income Planner). While not a big user of the Fido Trading Teams, personnel all seem well qualified and get answers but you do now have to split who you call.

 

[RunningBum]

Seriously, any reason why I shouldn't switch to Fidelity or Schwab? Are they just as bad in this respect?

If you've really lost confidence in VG, I would make the switch. No sense in waiting for something worse to happen and regret not moving earlier. I'm sure none of them is perfect, but maybe it's time for you. It's not yet that time for me--yet. But I'm mulling it over. If I go, I'd say Schwab holds a slight edge for me if they take over the local TDA office. Otherwise I'd probably look at Fido first since my pension and HSA are administered through them.

I've also got 20some years at VG. At the time it seemed like the clear best choice for me. If I was deciding now, it might be third, but not that far behind. But that's just my guess from some experience and a lot of impressions.

 

[Brat]

During a holiday visit with DD she found Fidelity Power of Attorney paperwork we sent her over a year ago. (It wasn't executed because her husband had a lung transplant a week later, she was preoccupied.) So we visited the Fidelity office near her to finish the job. The Client Rep reviewed it, said to was old and we executed new paperwork for DH and I for all of our Fidelity accounts in a half-hour... no appointment. Reviewing POA options she asked, "Do you want her to change beneficiaries on your accounts?" "Ah, no" we responded. The Representative was very knowledgable of Fidelity's paperwork and POAs, rounded up witnesses for signatures artfully. She was impressive.

Vanguard could not have done that.

 

[nwsteve]

During a holiday visit with DD she found Fidelity Power of Attorney paperwork we sent her over a year ago. (It wasn't executed because her husband had a lung transplant a week later, she was preoccupied.) So we visited the Fidelity office near her to finish the job. The Client Rep reviewed it, said to was old and we executed new paperwork for DH and I for all of our Fidelity accounts in a half-hour... no appointment. Reviewing POA options she asked, "Do you want her to change beneficiaries on your accounts?" "Ah, no" we responded. The Representative was very knowledgable of Fidelity's paperwork and POAs, rounded up witnesses for signatures artfully. She was impressive.

Vanguard could not have done that.

+1 Could NOT and has no interest in ever doing.

 

[GrayHare]

The rep assigned to you makes a huge difference, regardless of the brokerage. My sense is the better reps get bumped upstairs, to higher $ customers, more than I have invested, anyhow.

 

[JoeWras]

The rep assigned to you makes a huge difference, regardless of the brokerage. My sense is the better reps get bumped upstairs, to higher $ customers, more than I have invested, anyhow.

But VG got rid of reps and now has teams. That's the issue.

We set up a VG IRA for DW, but haven't funded it yet with an expected transfer. I'm not sure we're going to. We will probably just leave it at her bank for now.

 

[Midpack]

But VG got rid of reps and now has teams. That's the issue.

We set up a VG IRA for DW, but haven't funded it yet with an expected transfer. I'm not sure we're going to. We will probably just leave it at her bank for now.

Though now it's official, IMO they've essentially had "teams" for more than 10 years, because the few times I called "my" rep in past years they almost invariably couldn't answer my question, they'd have to get back to me. So if I have a question now, I just email since I can't remember ever getting an answer in real time.

 

[Scuba]

I don’t understand why anyone chooses VG over Fidelity now. In the past it was cost-driven, but VG forced others to lower fees to be competitive. I’ve dealt with both and Fido’s service is far superior.

 

[braumeister]

I think I've dealt with just about every discount brokerage over the last 30 years, and never had a big problem with any of them (but several minor problems).

Settled down (I hope permanently) now with Fidelity and Schwab. Both have been nearly flawless in execution, have great websites, great personal service, and are constantly innovating to improve their services.

 

[Midpack]

I don’t understand why anyone chooses VG over Fidelity now. In the past it was cost-driven, but VG forced others to lower fees to be competitive. I’ve dealt with both and Fido’s service is far superior.

If you’re interested in active funds and/or individual equities, or you want some handholding, you’re probably right. But for DIY index fund investors, Vanguard still has a slight edge in asset classes and holdings, but Fidelity has substantially closed that gap.

And the Fido zero fee index funds sound tempting but most of us are interested in net return after everything...

Who is actually more tax efficient? Vanguard or Fidelity?

Because of this and other strategies employed by Vanguard’s fund managers, VTSAX has distributed $0 in capital gains to shareholders since 2000. That’s amazing.

For comparison, Fidelity’s Total Stock Market index fund distributed $0.322 per share of capital gains last year. (The new zero funds don’t have a track record yet to analyze.)

The end result? Fidelity’s index fund gave up 0.99% of its return to taxes, while Vanguard gave up just 0.48%. (Source: Morningstar has a great breakdown of FKSAX’s pre & post tax returns and VTSAX’s pre & post tax returns)

This is huge.

Think about it this way. Fidelity’s new funds are “free” whereas Vanguard’s 0.04% expense ratio will cost you $4 in fees for every $10,000 in your portfolio. BUT, Vanguard’s increased tax efficiency means you’ll lose $51 less in taxes each year.

In other words, Vanguard’s tax efficiency could save you 13 times as much as its higher expense ratio costs.

Round 5 Winner: Vanguard, by a lot. Vanguard’s tax efficiency completely wipes out the savings from Fidelity’s lower fees, and then some.

https://mymoneywizard.com/vanguard-vs-fidelity/

 

[Cobra9777]

If you’re interested in active funds and/or individual equities, or you want some handholding, you’re probably right. But for DIY index fund investors, Vanguard still has a slight edge in asset classes and holdings, but Fidelity has substantially closed that gap.

And the Fido zero fee index funds sound tempting but most of us are interested in net return after everything...

Our portfolio at Fidelity consists entirely of Vanguard and iShares ETFs. Great combination of service and investments, IMHO. And now it's commission-free to trade Vanguard ETFs. Fidelity's website is also an excellent choice for the DIYer.

 

[Badger]

We have divided our investments to 3 institutions - Vanguard for a couple of funds in IRAs and MM accounts from the IRA dividends, Schwab/TD Ameritrade/Scottrade for individual stocks and MM accounts from their dividends, and our credit union for checking/savings/CDs.


We have been pleased with all of them so far. I hope that doesn't change. I'm not buying any more at this point so these are all the places I want to use to keep it simple.


Cheers!

 

[Scuba]

Our portfolio at Fidelity consists entirely of Vanguard and iShares ETFs. Great combination of service and investments, IMHO. And now it's commission-free to trade Vanguard ETFs. Fidelity's website is also an excellent choice for the DIYer.

I agree.

 

[RunningBum]

Another weird thing at Vanguard

I got my end of the year statements from Vanguard, in two or three mailings--I forget how they were combined. One of them startled me, a Roth account with $1.18 in it--was my account hacked?

I looked at all the statements received and found another Roth account, which appeared to have everything, and matched what I see online.

It appears I opened this other Roth account in 2017 to do a Roth conversion "horse race". That account came in second, so I recharacterized it in early February. I was under the impression that it closed, because I recharacterized the whole amount.

It looks like $1.18 was left behind though. I found an end of year statement from last year that shows this account as well, same balance. I guess I didn't notice it then.

Yesterday I messaged Vanguard, explaining the above, asking why I don't see this other account online, and also asking them to combine the two accounts, so that I don't get any more alarms of a very small Roth account.

Today I got a reply back there I only have one Roth account, the big one. They said the other one was closed in Feb 2018.

Why are they sending paper statements for that 2nd Roth account with a balance of $1.18? I guess I'll just have to remember to ignore it every year it comes. I don't care about a dollar and change, but I do care that Vanguard doesn't seem to be able to keep track of all of my money properly. What happens if it's a 6 figure account next time?