Vanguard is going downhill

[Hyper]

I've also not had a lot of good to say about VG in the past few yrs.....but today was completely blown away with the knowledge and very good help I received from a VG rep. Could have just been that the gal was an exemplary rep... They should all be as good as she was.

 

[ejman]

I transferred a rollover IRA from another fund family to Vanguard ( I'm < $5M Flagship). I was really frustrated originally with the process because I had followed Vanguards request to transfer my funds to the brokerage account and that seemed to really complicate the process. However, calling in to my flagship number I had a very knowledgeable and patient pool IRA transfer expert walk me thru the process and very patiently stay on the line while I went to all the screens I had to go to to and basically did a lot of hand holding for short tempered dumpkoff ( that would be me). The transfer happened as she said and all is well. No complaints. BTW according to the picture my prior Flagship rep was an average looking old fart so I didn't have the easy on the eyes regret of loosing my rep.

 

[The HalfBreed]

I've been getting that "NAG SCREEN" for almost 1 year now, so I wrote them an email online and here's their response.
NOTE ~ I only have 2 mutual funds there (Wellesley ROTH IRA and Wellington Taxable). I'm retired and don't contribute to either of them.
I've had them for about 9+ years and last year, decided to take my Wellington distributions (sent to my bank) quarterly.

I asked them "DO I NEED to" transition my account....in a nutshell....here's their response.

>> Benefits on upgrade.
Below you will find information on the benefits of upgrading to a Vanguard Brokerage Account.
***** Please note, upgrading from a mutual fund only account to a Vanguard Brokerage Account is voluntary *****.

So....I didn't upgrade to their Brokerage account, and am totally fine with it. I never will either.
​

 

[ejman]

I've been getting that "NAG SCREEN" for almost 1 year now, so I wrote them an email online and here's their response.
NOTE ~ I only have 2 mutual funds there (Wellesley ROTH IRA and Wellington Taxable). I'm retired and don't contribute to either of them.
I've had them for about 9+ years and last year, decided to take my Wellington distributions (sent to my bank) quarterly.

I asked them "DO I NEED to" transition my account....in a nutshell....here's their response.

>> Benefits on upgrade.
Below you will find information on the benefits of upgrading to a Vanguard Brokerage Account.
***** Please note, upgrading from a mutual fund only account to a Vanguard Brokerage Account is voluntary *****.

So....I didn't upgrade to their Brokerage account, and am totally fine with it. I never will either.
​

You be the smart one. I accomplished nothing by transitioning my account since I'm not an active trader. Maybe there are benefits I'm not aware of but so far they are well hidden.

 

[sunnyca]

1099's

As far as I am aware, unlike 1099-DIV which are due by Jan 31, 1099-B's (for sales) have always been due Feb 15th or thereabouts including for individual mutual fund sales. If you have a brokerage account, all brokers send a consolidated (combined) 1099 (comprising 1099DIV, 1099INT, 1099-B's) by mid February so I am not sure Vanguard is at fault here as mid Feb is the legal compliance date. Perhaps they didn't mention this when they asked you to convert to a brokerage account from individual mutual funds accounts & maybe they should have.

 

[always_learning]

I’m usually able to find what I’m looking for on the VG website pretty easily, and I’ve never gotten a “not found” screen. I only use the website, not the mobile app. Wish I could help but I just tried a bunch of links on the website and all came back as expected. Any examples?

i also only use the website. I can't think of anything specific, but whenever I tried typing a fund's ticker into the search box, all I got was a 'not found' or 'try again' message or something. Also, I was not logged in. I wish I could think of something specific, but it was probably a random ticker for a fund I read about and wanted to look at.

I honestly haven't tried searching from the website in a while, so it's possible they fixed whatever was wrong, even though it happened for several years.

 

[Jollyquick]

“(Gumby) I try to pick the right tool for my particular need and recognize that firms who try to move beyond their core competencies are often unsuccessful. For the same reason, I'm happy to use USAA for insurance, but I would not turn to them for banking or investment services.”

I agree with Gumby. Vanguard has it’s uses and is quite good at what it claims to be, a low fee, no frills investing company. I actually appreciate the lack of, “Have you any Grey Poupon?” Attitude I’ve experienced with other investing companies.

For example I had a question about a Roth conversion we were doing last week (end of February 2020) and was provided with prompt & professional advisor service. I was impressed with the patience. I’m not a >5M Flagship and received excellent service.

Perhaps those that have decided to move away from Vanguard after years of investing with them have simply “outgrown” them, and prefer a more personalized experience.

I had a similar experience with USAA and USPA & IRA. They were great for us as young, inexperienced investors (~30 years ago). However they are now Absolutely inadequate for the type of investors we are today...so we moved on to companies with a better fit.

Just like upgrading from a basic credit card to a luxury travel card. Yeah they both do credit transactions, but that free food and booze in the airport lounge is just a totally different level of service.

 

[rvindave]

I've had a Vanguard account since 2004, haven't seen any service drop off. I will say that I only do electronic transactions, never do paper trans with them. I tend to only log on once a week, on the weekends, to check my balances. These last 2 weeks have seen unprecedented trading volume in the Market in general; not surprised they and all trading services online were seeing response time / availability issues.

 

[almost there]

“Have you any Grey Poupon?” Attitude

That Reminds me of Charles Schwab (the initial voice recording anyway) Whom ever there thinks people want to hear a pompous azz on the recorded message every-time they call is, has got it wrong.
Been, exiting them as well. Only have (1) 5 yr CD left with them.
Rolled over IRA funds to another institution from Ch Sch in 2019.
They coded it as a distribution. My tax person mentioned I might get a letter from the IRS this year, and have to explain. When it happened in 2019 I called Ch Sch and was told "thats just how they do it". And its up to the receiving institution to code as a IRA rollover / IRA transfer.

Another reason I left Vanguard...(Back on topic)...... Check their "Gold/Metals Fund" VGPMX.
Long story / will keep it short. Owned it for 8-9. But in the nut shell it never really was a Gold or Metals fund. And a yr or so ago, they completely restructured the fund. And most shareholders just hung on to it. As they were too far down to bail out. bitter pill selling that one at a loss. But lesson learned. Even transferred it to Ch Sch. when I left VG. Thinking it will come back. "What the Indians used to say about the Buffalo".

 

[always_learning]

For example I had a question about a Roth conversion we were doing last week (end of February 2020) and was provided with prompt & professional advisor service. I was impressed with the patience. I’m not a >5M Flagship and received excellent service

And yet, I had just the opposite experience less than two years ago!

I called with a question on converting T-IRA to ROTH (my first-ever conversion) and making sure I was doing it right. I had a simple question and the rep could only hem and haw and reply with what was on the cheat sheet he was looking at "it will be on your form at tax time". For the life of me, I can't remember what I was wanting to know, but I knew for a fact that it would not be "on the form at tax time". I really wish I could remember what it was, because once I did the conversion (with the help from folks on this board), I realized that my question was very basic and the rep should have known. And, this was an "IRA Specialist", supposedly.

I've had a Vanguard account since 2004, haven't seen any service drop off. I will say that I only do electronic transactions, never do paper trans with them. I tend to only log on once a week, on the weekends, to check my balances. These last 2 weeks have seen unprecedented trading volume in the Market in general; not surprised they and all trading services online were seeing response time / availability issues.

I'm thinking there is a really high turnover there. I've been with them for years and years and have only had to call a handful of times but the quality of advice has been hit or miss these last several years.

I also think that with the way VG has grown over the years, and with the number of new investors with lots of questions, they are simply overwhelmed. That said, when I call and am transferred to a "specialist", I expect that specialist to know the most basic information.

 

[Midpack]

Works for me, using the VG app for the iPad.

Have either of you called or sent VG a note telling them they have a problem?

It could be a flash issue that VG is waiting for a fix?

I wasn’t the one impacted or complaining —- but I don’t think anyone should have tell a company with over $5T in assets they have a dead link on the front page of every customers ‘account overview’ on their website. It’s not some obscure buried link. Evidently the members impacted have asked anyway...

 

[Focus]

“
Perhaps those that have decided to move away from Vanguard after years of investing with them have simply “outgrown” them, and prefer a more personalized experience.

Nope. I like to keep it simple (total market index funds), and I'd do everything online if I could.

 

[pb4uski]

How have you managed to keep your own rep? As someone else mentioned, I thought they had eliminated their individually assigned reps and switched to a Flagship team system.

It was my recent experience with this team that convinced me to start moving funds out of Vanguard after being a loyal client for many years. To get a simple transaction done (not possible online), I had to talk for a good hour to a half dozen inexperienced reps who contradicted each other. I've let them know through several channels about my terrible experience, told them they could contact me, and ... crickets.

I've dipped my toe in at Fidelity by transferring my HSA over to them. (Vanguard not offering HSA services is another issue for me.) Their customer service has been noticeably better. I expect to transfer my IRA funds to them in the future.

Read around on their pages, I think I decoded the matrix here.

If you have over $5M AUM, I think you still get assigned a personal rep because you are Flagship Select. ...

I have no idea why I still have an assigned rep. Joe's decoding can't be right because we are well below $5m... evan when combining our monay with some family trust money that I manage. Besides, I've transferred almost seven figures out of Vanguard over the last few years because the yields on brokered CDs suck compared to those juicy credit union specials.

But in my experience having an assigned rep isn't a big deal because the only way to talk to them is by secure email or an appointment to talk... absent that, I get sent to the pool anyway.

We have HSAs with Fidelity as well as a small tIRA that was the PenFed CD special money that matured in Dec 2018. While the Fido fans rave about their website and tools I'm not crazy about them at all... not particularly impressive IMO. Ditto for their brokerage services, but luckily I don't trade all that much. The only positive differentiating factor for Fido is that there is an office near our winter condo, but I've only been in there twice when setting up the accounts... never since.

 

[JoeWras]

I have no idea why I still have an assigned rep. Joe's decoding can't be right because we are well below $5m... evan when combining our monay with some family trust money that I manage. Besides, I've transferred almost seven figures out of Vanguard over the last few years because the yields on brokered CDs suck compared to those juicy credit union specials.

Interesting!

Just guessing, but perhaps the switch over to pool reps also had a tenure element to it. I was only Flagship for a few years before they informed me no more personal rep.

Overall, I don't really care. I think the last time I called was 5 years ago. And that was to get a checkup on my ER plan by a CFP. The Flagship rep couldn't do anything except make an appt. with their CFP.

 

[Focus]

Interesting!

Just guessing, but perhaps the switch over to pool reps also had a tenure element to it. I was only Flagship for a few years before they informed me no more personal rep.

Overall, I don't really care. I think the last time I called was 5 years ago. And that was to get a checkup on my ER plan by a CFP. The Flagship rep couldn't do anything except make an appt. with their CFP.

I don't think there was a tenure element. I've been with Vanguard about 15 years, and they took away my assigned rep without a peep.

When I had my rep, I very rarely contacted him. However, when those occasions arise that something can't be done online, a rep can shepherd things through and shield you from their internal inefficiencies. Once you get a glimpse of their sausage-making via an interaction with their team response system, it's hard to forget.

 

[Texas Proud]

I don't think there was a tenure element. I've been with Vanguard about 15 years, and they took away my assigned rep without a peep.

When I had my rep, I very rarely contacted him. However, when those occasions arise that something can't be done online, a rep can shepherd things through and shield you from their internal inefficiencies. Once you get a glimpse of their sausage-making via an interaction with their team response system, it's hard to forget.

Yes, individual reps were on accounts over $1 mill before, but as you say it went away with the team approach... I still think the team used is better than for the lower lvl account holders...

 

[Hermit]

That's exactly how I feel about Vanguard, and exactly how my father thought about Vanguard 40 years ago. A lot of fluff has evolved over the last 40 years, and that fluff is not part of their core competency. I own specific funds within the Vanguard family that are in my opinion superior to competing products. I would not own or trade individual stocks there nor would I put them in charge of important things like RMD's.

I have done withdrawals from my IRA with them without a problem. I am curious about why RMDs would be any more difficult. I don't think I would feel any more secure with another large broker. Do you have one in mind? My RMDs will now not start for a couple more years, but I do intend to do a QCD this year through Vanguard. If there is a problem there I am sure I will be reporting about it somewhere on this forum.

 

[pb4uski]

.... nor would I put them in charge of important things like RMD's.

Vanguard has been doing RMDs for my mom for 18 years... never a problem... though her entire tIRA is there so it is pretty easy.

 

[teejayevans]

Vanguard has been doing RMDs for my mom for 18 years... never a problem... though her entire tIRA is there so it is pretty easy.

Ditto, and my parents have used them almost since the day they started, which is why I started using them.

 

[BarbWire]

I have used Vanguard since the early 1990s, as did my parents. I've found the specialty staff good (eg., when I was executor for each parent's estate in 2015/16) as was the pool IRA staff good (setting up RMDs from inherited IRAs) . In contrast, the general reps are a mixed bag in both the Flagship and Flagship Select pool (my current assigned FS rep is a complete idiot who keeps "reaching out" to sell me product and services. I have never returned his call). On the rare occasions that I call VG I punch through to the Flagship pool because it is usually a question that require a short answer.

However, in 2016 I took advantage of the one-time "change your mutual funds to the equivalent ETF" opportunity (thinking ETFs were more tax-advantageous, which may not be right) and they made a complete mess of the cost-basis transfers. Many hours on the phone with increasingly senior CSRs, and references to my detailed spreadsheets were required to get all the numbers right. (My rep at that time was junior and wonderful -- appalled at the error and rode close herd on the staff correcting it.)

I do very little trading. I am glad that I switched to the brokerage account structure -- it works for me. And I'm glad that I switched most of my mutual funds to ETFs. Nonetheless I am increasingly frustrated with Vanguard for all sorts of little niggling reasons and am thinking of moving to Schwab or Fidelity. My understanding is that I could move my Vanguard ETFs to either firm intact, but would of course have to sell my VWIAX, VBIAX and VTMFX.

First decision: all my eggs are in the Vanguard basket now. Is that a good idea, or should I spread my assets among 2 or more firms?

 

[pb4uski]

.... First decision: all my eggs are in the Vanguard basket now. Is that a good idea, or should I spread my assets among 2 or more firms?

That isn't uncommon. I don't think that the fiduciary holding tickers is a big risk... IOW diversification risk isn't very relevant when looking at the fiduciaries IMO.

However, I do recall a member writing that her Vanguard accounts got locked up for a period of time... something to do with unpaid PA state taxes relating a relative's estate where she received money as a beneficiary. One would think that only the account or portion thereof that the money went to would have been frozen but it went further than that.

While a little over half of our money is with Vanguard, I also have non-trivial amounts with Fidelity and 3 different credit unions.

 

[JoeWras]

That's right. The biggest issue is procedural or mechanical. Something causes them to freeze your accounts for no reason, at just the wrong time. Or their servers go down at just the wrong time. Something that may lock you out for a few days that takes time to clear up.

That's where it helps to have multiple providers.

 

[MRG]

That isn't uncommon. I don't think that the fiduciary holding tickers is a big risk... IOW diversification risk isn't very relevant when looking at the fiduciaries IMO.

However, I do recall a member writing that her Vanguard accounts got locked up for a period of time... something to do with unpaid PA state taxes relating a relative's estate where she received money as a beneficiary. One would think that only the account or portion thereof that the money went to would have been frozen but it went further than that.

While a little over half of our money is with Vanguard, I also have non-trivial amounts with Fidelity and 3 different credit unions.

That was me at Fidelity, I'm a guy. [emoji4]

My DF had a TOD pointed at my Fidelity brokerage account, when his death certificate triggered the TOD it also notified the Commonwealth of PA. They had Fidelity lock the entire account from withdrawals. I could trade, heck I could have written naked puts on the VIX as far as these folks knew. PA wanted the 10% inheritance tax owed and locked me out of 500k to guarantee 12k of taxes owed. Took them 6-8 months to settle his simple estate. Despite folks raving about Fidelity's great customer service there was no rolling that transaction back.

OP you asked about risk to have everything at one firm. I'm a firm believer in redundancy, I earned it. [emoji23]

My work took me into a few data centers that keep track of assets. I didn't get a tour, I came to work because something was sideways and not in a good way. I won't ever have all my money at any one provider. I firmly believe that any real losses will be eventually be resolved. It might take time.

We use Fidelity, and Vanguard for investing and Ally for a years queue of expense money.

 

[pb4uski]

^^^ Sorry ... I remembered the issue but not the details.

 

[Scrapr]

That was me at Fidelity, I'm a guy. [emoji4].

What are you wearing..."Jake from State Farm"?

TMI?