Vanguard - last straw?

+1
I worked in an SEC controlled environment. Nobody argues with them, doesn't matter how detached from reality they are. You simply incorporate their requirements into your business processes.

So why is V "insisting" on "forcing" us all into a brokerage relationship - just to own mutual funds? They don't seem to worry about the SEC unless you have the brokerage relationship. What am I missing?
 
So why is V "insisting" on "forcing" us all into a brokerage relationship - just to own mutual funds? They don't seem to worry about the SEC unless you have the brokerage relationship. What am I missing?

I've read that their mutual fund software platform is ancient and at end of life. Maintaining two totally different systems must be terribly inefficient so it makes sense to migrate everyone to a single platform. Arguably where they messed up is by letting the process dribble on for years.
 
Vanguard should have just closed the old mutual fund accounts and required everyone to move to the brokerage accounts years ago. It is too expensive to run 2 systems. Vanguard should not have let this go on so long.
 
I've read that their mutual fund software platform is ancient and at end of life. Maintaining two totally different systems must be terribly inefficient so it makes sense to migrate everyone to a single platform. Arguably where they messed up is by letting the process dribble on for years.
That system was developed in the 1980s in COBOLII. A language that never took off, it allowed COBOL jocks to play with addresses(not always a good thing). IBM does still support the language but few people still write code in it. I don't think any university would teach it outside of history.

I worked on a similar system that is still being used, it's even older. Hundreds of developers, ten of thousands of programs, and millions of dollars invested every year. It's not like they can just mothball it either as entities such as the IRS, SEC, hackers, and other regulatory bodies make you invest more time and money every year. Every year the security puzzle becomes more complicated with less viable options.

I wouldn't keep my investments on a system that is at end of life. Too much risk for zero rewards, Hell I'm going to pay a premium? No way.
 
It's a new account, right?

Nope, I've had MFs at V for 25 years and a brokerage acct. (for exactly one stock) for maybe 7 years. I just don't get why they want (need) me to put MFs into a brokerage acct. I just assume there is an advantage to them (though I don't know what it would be) BUT I see NO advantage to me. Anyone know??
 
Nope, I've had MFs at V for 25 years and a brokerage acct. (for exactly one stock) for maybe 7 years. I just don't get why they want (need) me to put MFs into a brokerage acct. I just assume there is an advantage to them (though I don't know what it would be) BUT I see NO advantage to me. Anyone know??

My best guess:

Advantage to them - migrate away from an outdated legacy system
Advantage to you - avoid a $20/yr per fund fee
 
I got the new UI recently. Not impressed. Not my last straw, but perhaps my last smile.

The new UI feels like wandering through the desert of white space.
 
Well, I don't see a difference but your and my opinions really don't matter. I am pretty sure that the SEC does not see a difference. That matters.

The SEC sees a huge difference from a regulatory perspective. Individual companies have to file 10-Ks, 10-Qs and the like and mutual funds don't... that and what is included in a MF filing is drastically different from what is required for an individual company.
 
What I don't understand is how so many forum members got away with not going through the transition back in 2018, when they started sending us forceful, urgent emails about how we were required to do this ASAP. That's when I moved everything into brokerage. ("Everything" for me was all mutual funds.) I didn't WANT to move them, but according to the emails I thought I had no choice, that it had to be done immediately. If I had known they were just "faking it", I would have left my mutual funds in the old mutual fund accounts.

https://www.early-retirement.org/fo...lar-vanguard-account-87727-2.html#post2135351

I am a huge fan of Vanguard, and this was and is my only complaint about them over the years. They handled the transition terribly IMO.
 
If I had known they were just "faking it"

....

I am a huge fan of Vanguard, and this was and is my only complaint about them over the years. They handled the transition terribly IMO.

Yep. I don't mind switching to brokerage since I'm doing so much now with ETFs and treasuries. But the whole "faking it" thing really, really gets on my nerves.

I'd give a specific analogy to events during the pandemic, but I might get banned.
 
The SEC sees a huge difference from a regulatory perspective. Individual companies have to file 10-Ks, 10-Qs and the like and mutual funds don't... that and what is included in a MF filing is drastically different from what is required for an individual company.
Oh, all true. REITs are different animals yet. My comment was in the context of "securities" bought through a broker/dealer. I believe it's the case that there is no difference in the broker/dealer "know your client" rules whatever securities that the client is trading.
 
I have accounts with Vanguard and TD Ameritrade. The Ameritrade office now has a Schwab/Ameritrade sign on it, and my rep is a Schwab employee. She said that she was going to migrate my account in advance to attempt to avoid IT issues. I do like having a physical office. They have coffee! We'll see.

Ameritrade answers the phone faster - Vanguard has a much better rate in their sweep account, used for trading, and I like that Vanguard gives an estimate cost for treasuries. Vanguard charges a commission for trading mutual funds which are not Vanguard. TD charges a commission on Vanguard mutual funds (but not Vanguard ETFs.) TD was superior for calculating cost basis on inherited assets. Both lagged a bit in having assets (from small accounts) transferred in... Both were Johnny on the spot with having larger amounts transferred over.
 
What I don't understand is how so many forum members got away with not going through the transition back in 2018, when they started sending us forceful, urgent emails about how we were required to do this ASAP. That's when I moved everything into brokerage. ("Everything" for me was all mutual funds.) I didn't WANT to move them, but according to the emails I thought I had no choice, that it had to be done immediately. If I had known they were just "faking it", I would have left my mutual funds in the old mutual fund accounts.

https://www.early-retirement.org/fo...lar-vanguard-account-87727-2.html#post2135351

I am a huge fan of Vanguard, and this was and is my only complaint about them over the years. They handled the transition terribly IMO.

I just ignored it - for years. I finally transitioned one of my accounts as a test and discovered I liked it.

I didn't do it earlier as my thought was "What are you trying to pull!"
 
Nope, I've had MFs at V for 25 years and a brokerage acct. (for exactly one stock) for maybe 7 years. I just don't get why they want (need) me to put MFs into a brokerage acct. I just assume there is an advantage to them (though I don't know what it would be) BUT I see NO advantage to me. Anyone know??

Here's Vanguard's document.

Fewer tax forms (as I mentioned) SPIC , fewer fees and faster transactions in some circumstances. https://www.vanguard.com/pdf/vbafqm.pdf
 
For those thinking of changing brokers, just a heads up on a little wrinkle I experienced recently transferring assets from Vanguard to Fidelity.

I did a full transfer of my brokerage account earlier this month. I continued to have access to my account with a zero balance until this morning. When I logged in, I had no account and no account history, at all. Luckily, I had downloaded the important account records before the transfer. However, it made me uneasy to lose complete access to my taxable account history going back years so I called Vanguard and was passed through to the right department that instructed me on how to send a “rescind letter” via fax or USPS to keep my account open. This has to be received by VG within 60 days in order to re-open the account.

The representative was helpful and I suggested he submit feedback that clients should receive notification of closure prior to Vanguard acting on their own, which he said he would.

So, for those thinking of transferring, I suggest downloading the statements and transaction history you think you might need down the road prior to the transfer. Or, don’t do a full transfer as I did so some money is left remaining in your accounts.




You might want to call and find out why... you should be able to get access to the account for about 7 or 8 years... no way they should cut you off this quickly...



I had access to my old TD account for 15 years...
 
You might want to call and find out why... you should be able to get access to the account for about 7 or 8 years... no way they should cut you off this quickly...



I had access to my old TD account for 15 years...



Thanks. Yes, I did ask and the said it is standard policy. After this happened, I searched Bogleheads for similar instances and found others have had the same experience.
 
You might want to call and find out why... you should be able to get access to the account for about 7 or 8 years... no way they should cut you off this quickly...

My experience is too old to be meaningful, I realize. Years ago I had a brokerage account with Ameriprise. Wasn't very big. When I transferred that to VG, my online access was removed instantly. "Account not found".

Over time I've opened/closed multiple bank accounts, they all cut access as soon as I closed the accounts.

I would never expect to keep access once I was no longer a customer, and I keep waiting for institutions to use that as a weapon to discourage moving accounts.

"Sure, Mr. Jones, we can transfer your funds and close your accounts, but do you realize you would not have any access to your account history or statements? Are you prepared for that?"

"Am I prepared? What do you mean? What would I need it for?"

"Mr. Jones, to answer that you should probably talk to your financial advisor who is handling moving your accounts to another firm." Cue the panic.
 
My experience is too old to be meaningful, I realize. Years ago I had a brokerage account with Ameriprise. Wasn't very big. When I transferred that to VG, my online access was removed instantly. "Account not found".

Over time I've opened/closed multiple bank accounts, they all cut access as soon as I closed the accounts.

I would never expect to keep access once I was no longer a customer, and I keep waiting for institutions to use that as a weapon to discourage moving accounts.

"Sure, Mr. Jones, we can transfer your funds and close your accounts, but do you realize you would not have any access to your account history or statements? Are you prepared for that?"

"Am I prepared? What do you mean? What would I need it for?"

"Mr. Jones, to answer that you should probably talk to your financial advisor who is handling moving your accounts to another firm." Cue the panic.


Does not make sense to me as they are supposed to keep your records for 7 years or thereabout....


And to do it instantly is really bad if you want to find out info for tax purposes... I had an inheritance and VG screwed up and put the regular shares into my account mixing the shares... so my old shares with low cost basis were not commingled with my new shares that had current price... they said they could not do anything about it even though I brought it up within a week... I sold the inherited shares but VG said I had a big gain... I had to fix my tax return...


This just tells me to keep a small account at VG when I move...




Decided to look it up...


New paragraph (e)(5) of Rule 17a-4 requires broker-dealers to retain account record information for six years. The six-year period begins either at the time the account is closed or when the information is replaced or updated.
 
For those thinking of changing brokers, just a heads up on a little wrinkle I experienced recently transferring assets from Vanguard to Fidelity.

I did a full transfer of my brokerage account earlier this month. I continued to have access to my account with a zero balance until this morning. When I logged in, I had no account and no account history, at all.

OTOH, it took me years and multiple requests to get them to close my zero balance account at Vanguard. I had done a total transfer to Fidelity long ago but they kept my account open and I could still login to it no matter what kind of request I made. They finally complied after nine years and the most recent request.
 
OTOH, it took me years and multiple requests to get them to close my zero balance account at Vanguard. I had done a total transfer to Fidelity long ago but they kept my account open and I could still login to it no matter what kind of request I made. They finally complied after nine years and the most recent request.

We are in same camp--I have had all our assets moved to Fidelity for at least 10 years but still get emails with news and requests to log in. Pretty much ignored them after one too many administrative fumbles ranging from removing beneficiaries to poor process handling DM's estate assets.
 
After reading the above comments, wanted to add that the Vanguard representative said he could have account statements provided upon request. Since monthly statements don’t provide all the details such as specific lots sold, I decided I still wanted access to all of the transaction data so I took the additional step to restore access.
 
Why would anyone want to stay on an old outdated Vanguard platform?

From my perspective, it works fine. I don't "do" a lot of stuff on their site. When I have, it's relatively quick and easy. Better question: Why would I want to move to another system that may be more difficult to master (at least, would almost certainly be different) from what I'm used to? Hmmm?
 
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