Vanguard - last straw?

[Koolau]

Here's Vanguard's document.

Fewer tax forms (as I mentioned) SPIC , fewer fees and faster transactions in some circumstances. https://www.vanguard.com/pdf/vbafqm.pdf

I need absolutely NONE of those "advantages." I can see why THEY don't want to generate more paper, but it works for me and they have enough of my money that the costs per chunk of paper is almost nothing. Looking at their 10 page reports, I wonder why they haven't been able to stream-line the reports - especially the last couple with only legal-drivel that every report has.

 

[rayvt]

Looking at their 10 page reports, I wonder why they haven't been able to stream-line the reports - especially the last couple with only legal-drivel that every report has.

When I made the same remark about real-estate mortgage documents, it was explained to me. "Every sentence and paragraph is there because some lawyer somewhere sued a bank about something that everybody understood but had not been written down. Now it has been written down and will appear in every mortgage contract until the end of time."

 

[Koolau]

When I made the same remark about real-estate mortgage documents, it was explained to me. "Every sentence and paragraph is there because some lawyer somewhere sued a bank about something that everybody understood but had not been written down. Now it has been written down and will appear in every mortgage contract until the end of time."

Yeah, I actually get that. But they're after me all the time to do my reports on the internet. How about letting me opt to have all that cwap on the internet? I'd opt for that. I like MY numbers on a piece of paper - I could care less where the legalize is to be found (especially after seeing it on several other reports already.) YMMV

 

[Texas Proud]

I need absolutely NONE of those "advantages." I can see why THEY don't want to generate more paper, but it works for me and they have enough of my money that the costs per chunk of paper is almost nothing. Looking at their 10 page reports, I wonder why they haven't been able to stream-line the reports - especially the last couple with only legal-drivel that every report has.

It can be worse... I have 8 to 10 different accounts at Vanguard... when I was on the mutual fund system I got a single stmt with ALL the accounts totaled and then individually... it was great..


Now on brokerage I get a separate mailing for each account and another for the 'total', but it is not the total as a couple of accounts are not included...

 

[JoeWras]

OTOH, it took me years and multiple requests to get them to close my zero balance account at Vanguard. I had done a total transfer to Fidelity long ago but they kept my account open and I could still login to it no matter what kind of request I made. They finally complied after nine years and the most recent request.

So inconsistent!

When my dad passed, and we cleared out his trust account after fixing some issues with step up basis, I called in and asked that they close it.

Within hours it was if the account didn't exist. The log-in was gone, all access was gone. Good thing I printed everything I needed to. Sheesh.

 

[RetMD21]

I need absolutely NONE of those "advantages." I can see why THEY don't want to generate more paper, but it works for me and they have enough of my money that the costs per chunk of paper is almost nothing. Looking at their 10 page reports, I wonder why they haven't been able to stream-line the reports - especially the last couple with only legal-drivel that every report has.

If you don't want to move to the new platform at Vanguard you could just move to another broker

 

[REWahoo]

If you don't want to move to the new platform at Vanguard you could just move to another broker

What, and give up a perfectly good excuse to continue this rant? What would he do with all that spare time...

 

[tulak]

If you don't want to move to the new platform at Vanguard you could just move to another broker

At which point you’ll need to open a brokerage account. MF only accounts are rare.

 

[GTFan]

Moved everything from VG to Schwab and Fido, only issue was VG sending wrong cost basis data for pre-2012 lots on a fund I've held for almost 30 years now. Got Schwab to fix that, VG wouldn't do it.

No real issues with VG but they just got left behind with poor CS and website, the tools and support on the other two are way better.

 

[Phroig]

One dumb feature of Vanguard’s mutual fund platform is once you enter a trade (or even a $ transfer), you can’t cancel it. Is this also the case with their brokerage?

 

[RetMD21]

One dumb feature of Vanguard’s mutual fund platform is once you enter a trade (or even a $ transfer), you can’t cancel it. Is this also the case with their brokerage?

Stock executions are in seconds how are you going to cancel. Does Schwab allow that

 

[nassa]

In my experience with the brokerage platform, mutual fund orders could be cancelled but only if done earlier in the day. Don’t know the exact cutoff time but it was early afternoon for me. That was frustrating as I am able to cancel up until 4:00 eastern at Fidelity.

 

[Phroig]

Stock executions are in seconds how are you going to cancel. Does Schwab allow that

I was asking about mutual funds; you can’t trade equities on the mutual fund platform. Nassa answered my question - thanks!

 

[Koolau]

If you don't want to move to the new platform at Vanguard you could just move to another broker

I've considered it but I would guess it is much more "work" and hassle than to let it ride and play their silly little game.

 

[RobbieB]

I wouldn't stay with a broker that plays silly little games. Dump them.

 

[harllee]

Vanguard is not playing a silly game. The old mutual fund platform is outdated and based on very old software. Someday soon it will probably crash and not be fixable. Why would anyone want to stay on a platform that is outdated and might crash in the near future? The only thing I think Vanguard has done wrong is that they did not say you must move your account by a certain date or it will be moved for you.

 

[Koolau]

Vanguard is not playing a silly game. The old mutual fund platform is outdated and based on very old software. Someday soon it will probably crash and not be fixable. Why would anyone want to stay on a platform that is outdated and might crash in the near future? The only thing I think Vanguard has done wrong is that they did not say you must move your account by a certain date or it will be moved for you.

Yeah, I'm sure that's it.

Not sure why they couldn't just say that.

 

[RetMD21]

The old mutual fund platform is outdated and based on very old software. Someday soon it will probably crash and not be fixable. Why would anyone want to stay on a platform that is outdated and might crash in the near future? The only thing I think Vanguard has done wrong is that they did not say you must move your account by a certain date or it will be moved for you.

IDK if they can force people to switch since it involves opening a brokerage account and SEC has requirements. See this from FINRA https://www.finra.org/investors/learn-to-invest/brokerage-accounts/opening-brokerage-account

I would be fine with Vanguard telling people that they are closing the old platform Jan 1 2023 and any remaining investments will be cashed out and
the proceeds mailed to the account owner. Can you image the complaints?

Of course Vanguard's customer service and IT problems may make it impossible for some people to switch in a timely manner.

 

[harllee]

If the $20 fee is not enough to force people to switch to the new platform then maybe Vanguard will have to up the penalty for not switching--$100, Then $200, then $500, etc.

 

[freedomatlast]

My best guess:

Advantage to them - migrate away from an outdated legacy system
Advantage to you - avoid a $20/yr per fund fee

The $20/yr per fund only applies to accounts with balances less than $1,000,000.

I called VG about this yesterday and they told me it is not mandatory that customers switch to the brokerage account and there is no date that it must be done by. However, accounts with less than $1,000,000 will be charged $20/yr per fund after 9/30/22.

And yes, their phone service is terrible. Got two different answers from three different associates until I got a supervisor that actually seemed to have a clue. VG has gone down hill, big time. Seriously considering moving everything elsewhere, not because of the brokerage account business, but because you wait on hold forever and chances are the person that eventually answers just guesses with answers, and when you challenge their answers , they say yea, maybe you are right. Doh!

 

[sengsational]

I'm on the brokerage platform. I can put in a limit order and cancel it later, as long as nobody grabbed it.

But the reason I'm annoyed is that sometimes I get the lipstick on a pig version of the web site, and sometimes I get the traditional, comfortable version.

I think I understand why companies feel compelled to constantly tweak their web presence... it's because of people that think "oh, modern look, must not be COBOL" hehehe

It's bad enough they're all changing their pages all the time, but just do it and get it over with!

I notice every change, even the slightest changes, because it breaks my page scraper. So now I have added lipstick logic, which might be the last straw.

 

[gauss]

The $20/yr per fund only applies to accounts with balances less than $1,000,000.

I called VG about this yesterday and they told me it is not mandatory that customers switch to the brokerage account and there is no date that it must be done by. However, accounts with less than $1,000,000 will be charged $20/yr per fund after 9/30/22.

I suspect that the $1,000,000 must be in mutual fund style of accounts for the fee waiver to engage.

I have over 1M in brokerage accounts at VG and received letters stating the fees would not apply to each of the brokerage accounts.

I have between 100k and 1M in the legacy mutual fund accounts and received letters specific to all of these accounts that $20 for each would be assessed.

I figure I will stay on the sidelines for one year, pay the fees, and watch how it plays out. I am particularly concerned about loosing historical fund data (ie transactions and statements) if a MF account is closed/transferred/converted etc.


-gauss

 

[Phroig]

I’m also holding out (haven’t received the email yet). If I’m forced to switch, I’ll probably stay with Vanguard. I’m with them for their (gasp!) managed funds. (I also own VTSAX and VTIAX - my largest holdings.)
Index funds/ETFs, I can get anywhere. What I can’t get elsewhere (at least without significant fees) is equity funds managed by the likes of Primecap and Wellington with expense ratios of 0.2-0.3%, and even cheaper municipal bond funds and great MMFs.
Meanwhile, I like the Dec. YTD statements I get on the old platform, and I don’t intend to trade, so I don’t need a brokerage account.

 

[gauss]

... I like the Dec. YTD statements I get on the old platform,

+100 to that.

In general I will be forced to switch from downloading and retaining one statement per year per account (as is possible on the current MF platform) to 12 monthly statements per account. Would be very interested in a brokerage YTD statement option if Vanguard were to offer it.

-gauss

 

[harllee]

I’m also holding out (haven’t received the email yet). If I’m forced to switch, I’ll probably stay with Vanguard. I’m with them for their (gasp!) managed funds. (I also own VTSAX and VTIAX - my largest holdings.)
Index funds/ETFs, I can get anywhere. What I can’t get elsewhere (at least without significant fees) is equity funds managed by the likes of Primecap and Wellington with expense ratios of 0.2-0.3%, and even cheaper municipal bond funds and great MMFs.
Meanwhile, I like the Dec. YTD statements I get on the old platform, and I don’t intend to trade, so I don’t need a brokerage account.

Aren't you concerned that the old platform (which I think is still on Cobol programming) crashes and is unfixable and you can't even get into your account?