What’s your 17

[KCGeezer]

The discussion did not start out about “mob rule” and I disagree that is even part of these kids activities. The point I and others are making is that it’s encouraging to see engaged young people trying to make a positive difference in their society.

What is sad is that so many people are focused on narrow semi related issues that they lose sight of the good things happening in the world.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

The discussion did not start out about “mob rule” and I disagree that is even part of these kids activities. The point I and others are making is that it’s encouraging to see engaged young people trying to make a positive difference in their society.

What is sad is that so many people are focused on narrow semi related issues that they lose sight of the good things happening in the world.

I'm all for people making a positive difference. The question becomes what is positive, and do some efforts to make a positive difference end up having negative consequences.

For instance, the people who wanted prohibition were trying to make a positive impact on society by eliminating alcohol. There hearts were good, they saw the many negative impacts of alcoholism including loss of jobs and family violence.

Many laws were enacted that I believe infringed on citizens constitutional rights. Finally, they had enough political momentum to change the constitution via the 18th amendment. This ended up not beings such a good thing.

I am not saying the students are the same as those trying to do prohibition. Nor am I saying they are mob rule. What I am saying that I am reluctant to take away individual rights to satisfy societal problems, and that my counting to 10 uses all of the numbers, not just some of them. I'm also saying that sometimes these things spiral out of control. The French revolution started out as a good thing...it didn't end up so well...at least for the many innocents who lost their heads during the Terror: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

 

[Amethyst]

I see the students as the up-and-coming generation, who are going to have to work out these ethical, moral, and legal questions for themselves as they begin, as every generation must, to shape society around them. Thoughtful, nonviolent protests are one proven way to do this.

I would agree that the moment a protest devolves into mob rule, or even heavy social pressure to take part, that's a wrong turn (and should be called out as such). My loathing for peer pressure has been a driving force throughout life.

I am not saying the students are the same as those trying to do prohibition. Nor am I saying they are mob rule. What I am saying that I am reluctant to take away individual rights to satisfy societal problems, and that my counting to 10 uses all of the numbers, not just some of them. I'm also saying that sometimes these things spiral out of control. The French revolution started out as a good thing...it didn't end up so well...at least for the many innocents who lost their heads during the Terror: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

 

[Winemaker]

What better way to learn the constitution than to exercise one of it's rights? They should be getting extra credit

I heartily endorse citizens to exercise their rights. However, these "innocent" students, took several brand new motor coaches to the state capital to rally about the legislature's debate over gun control, less than 2 weeks after the terrible shooting by a madman. A small number of students who didn't go were given detention. I don't think the funds were raised by bake sales, nor do I think it was a student grass roots movement. I do hope they learned that they were unwilling pawns by outside groups, as they are no longer in the headlines.

Now when I was in high school, when a few classmates found out that I was seeking to attend the Air Force Academy, their reactions were grassrooted. Pictures of the Mi Lai massacre, the napalm girl, were often taped to my locker as well as their taunts of "Baby Killer", those were genuine.

 

[KCGeezer]

You say the question becomes “what is positive?” That’s exactly the idea that these specific kids are exploring with “What’s your 17?” It’s a challenge to themselves and others to determine and agree upon some action(s) and act on them to improve life. True, not all attempts of proposed solutions will be effective or be proven to be in mankind’s long term benefit but they are trying. I say, good for them.

 

[KCGeezer]

Sorry to hear about those experiences Winemaker. I believe each of us is shaped by genetics and experience. Hopefully as this and future generations take over from us, fewer and fewer people will be subjected to ignorance, bullying, and intolerance.

As for your questioning who paid for the busses to Tallahassee, I don’t know. Sounds like a dangerous drift off topic.

 

[Amethyst]

"A small number of students who didn't go were given detention."

Was there another incident besides this one, where the suspension was actually for sitting alone in an unsupervised classroom - against school regulations - during the protests?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hat-actually-happened/?utm_term=.15c5e8aa8793

I found it hard to credit that any school administrator, no matter their political leanings, would suspend a student for not joining a protest.

As for the way you were treated for wanting to go to the AF Academy - grassroots, piffle. That was peer pressure. I am old enough to recall the way people were baited and abused for being in ROTC during the Vietnam war. As a kid, I felt this was grossly unfair, even though I was against the war. But that is not very relevant to the topic of our "17 things."

I A small number of students who didn't go were given detention.
Now when I was in high school, when a few classmates found out that I was seeking to attend the Air Force Academy, their reactions were grassrooted. Pictures of the Mi Lai massacre, the napalm girl, were often taped to my locker as well as their taunts of "Baby Killer", those were genuine.

 

[ERD50]

Some sad old people on this site.

Why is that? Because some people don't agree with you? Because some people think that the mob shouldn't rule, or that enumerated rights need to be protected? Does that make them "sad old people"?

Hey, I thought it was important to not call people names on these forums. I'd consider "sad old" to not be very engaging if one really wants a fruitful discussion.

Especially with no context. It's just name calling.

Free bird, what are you trying to say? Can you do it politely?

-ERD50

 

[bmcgonig]

I'm sure those kids and most adults haven't read one iota of the tyranny our fore fathers suffered; unjustified search and seizure, taxation without representation, quartering of troops in your households while they ate you out of house and home, to name a few.

I'm sure that you are NOT sure of that. Lots of kids study the lead up to the revolution. And they may still think that in this modern world, their actions are justified.

 

[Amethyst]

Oh good, not closed yet

Not adding anything of substance, just hoping to see more contributions toward the "17." There are some really good posts here, and I was enjoying the thread with a wary eye toward the Topics that Must Not Be Mentioned.

Today we are snowed in, so I plan to throw away 17 items I'd been procrastinating about - mostly clothing.

I'd like to say I'll complete 17 chores I've been putting off, but really it will be lucky if I get to finish 1 or 2

 

[REWahoo]

Oh good, not closed yet

You can be sure there are 17 mod eyes watching this thread.

 

[KCGeezer]

You mean Porky’s cousin has one eye on us?

https://goo.gl/images/CF7s5m

 

[Winemaker]

I'm sure that you are NOT sure of that. Lots of kids study the lead up to the revolution. And they may still think that in this modern world, their actions are justified.

I know that I am sure of that; you shouldn't be putting words in my mouth. DW and DD were/are both teachers. The subjects may be taught in your school districts like they are here, but kids don't LEARN subjects like they used to. Their mentality is that "I can always look it up". In this day and age, the quickest source is Wiki, an unreliable website that can be edited quite frequently, often and inaccurate. School books are changed out often as curriculum mandates change politically, on the local, state and federal level. Although denied by everyone, stereotypes and opinions are rampant and certain opinions, points of view and free speech are forbidden to be exercised to this very day.

Attempts of "feel good" efforts as to smile at 17 people you don't know are feeble. Criminal and psychotic behavior must be addressed. After the last two weeks events in Austin, are we calling for the banning of home delivered packages?

 

[hesperus]

Although denied by everyone, stereotypes and opinions are rampant and certain opinions, points of view and free speech are forbidden to be exercised to this very day.

I'm sure those kids and most adults haven't read one iota of the tyranny our fore fathers suffered

To me, these are a gross generalization and stereotype... If you operate from this perspective, you often become a slave to it

 

[KCGeezer]

I think you’re conflating issues here Winemaker. The examples of a smile or small act of kindness are not the ‘one and only way’ that these kids are suggesting.

If I may ask, if you and your DW are teachers how about asking your students what they think? If you’d like to suggest specific focus of study (the Federalist Papers or whatever) good for you. They may or may not agree but it’s a dialogue. I think that’s the main message here

As far as ‘I’ll just look it up’. One of my favorite teachers was HS physics. After each chapter he painted the equations up on the wall. By the end of the year two walls were covered with them. He explained that in the real world you could always look up the exact equation, but you had to know which one to use.

Plus, he had fun toys to demonstrate things.

 

[Amethyst]

I loved high school physics, b/c the teacher easily related every single formula to real life. Now, there was a young man who knew how to talk to kids.

These Coral Springs youngsters just had about the most imposing real-life lesson you can possibly have, and it's focused them on civic processes in ways I couldn't have imagined at their age. Time will tell if this is just a temporary way for them to bond and deal with horror, or if they'll persist in their aims.

I

As far as ‘I’ll just look it up’. One of my favorite teachers was HS physics. After each chapter he painted the equations up on the wall.
Plus, he had fun toys to demonstrate things.

 

[Winemaker]

I think you’re conflating issues here Winemaker. The examples of a smile or small act of kindness are not the ‘one and only way’ that these kids are suggesting.

If I may ask, if you and your DW are teachers how about asking your students what they think? If you’d like to suggest specific focus of study (the Federalist Papers or whatever) good for you. They may or may not agree but it’s a dialogue. I think that’s the main message here

As far as ‘I’ll just look it up’. One of my favorite teachers was HS physics. After each chapter he painted the equations up on the wall. By the end of the year two walls were covered with them. He explained that in the real world you could always look up the exact equation, but you had to know which one to use.

Plus, he had fun toys to demonstrate things.

KCGeezer, I am not a teacher, I am an engineer by education. DW and BIL are retired teachers, DD is an active teacher. My experience with this subject is from my collection of old books, textbooks, and the like. Current grade school and high school history books are "History Light" and lightly touch on just about every subject but gloss over everything. Attention spans are short; so little asides in the corners give whimsical accounts of subjects. Kids have to be entertained; I guess it's the result of video games.


General/random acts of kindness to everyone is a way of life and should not be the result of a tragedy. As many here have experienced bullying in one way or another as a school, work/classmates can be pretty cruel, petty and mean, but as social animals/mammals have always established a pecking order in groups. It may not be right but it is part of life. I stood up to a bully once as a HS freshman , and got the crap knocked out of me, but he and his friends never bothered me again. I did have female classmates "decorate" my locker.

Listen, this thread is not about me, but about thoughts and comments about the OP's original post. I gave my thoughts/comments based on my life's experiences, did not mean to open a can of worms or offend anybody.

 

[joeea]

Today we are snowed in, so I plan to throw away 17 items I'd been procrastinating about - mostly clothing.

Throwing things away? Do whatever you like. Still, it doesn't seem to have much to do with "17 things for an agreed upon period of time that could really make a difference".

I suspect the spirit of the movement was in the "making a difference" rather than the "do 17 of anything".

Personally, I think this movement may be well-intentioned but will have little (if any( effect. Maybe some folks will actually do meaningful things, rather than just hitting "Like" 17 times. Color me skeptical.

 

[joeea]

As far as ‘I’ll just look it up’. One of my favorite teachers was HS physics. After each chapter he painted the equations up on the wall. By the end of the year two walls were covered with them. He explained that in the real world you could always look up the exact equation, but you had to know which one to use.

Plus, he had fun toys to demonstrate things.

My favorite teacher was also HS physics.
His lesson of "Life is an open book exam" stuck with me.

 

[KCGeezer]

Acts of kindness should absolutely be the norm, not the exception.

My positive action today was to make a list of the 17 projects I need to get done to have the lake house ready for the summer. Hopefully it doesn’t take 17 trips to the hardware store to get everything I need.

 

[KCGeezer]

Sorry to mis-read your post Winemaker, say thank you to all your teachers for their work. I hope we can all agree that’s it’s an important (and undervalued imo) vocation.

 

[KCGeezer]

I saw some of the footage from the rallies being held by the next generation today. Thoroughly impressed with their passion, eloquence, and underlying desire for a ‘better’ world. I wasn’t anywhere near that level of maturity at their age.

 

[MRG]

I saw some of the footage from the rallies being held by the next generation today. Thoroughly impressed with their passion, eloquence, and underlying desire for a ‘better’ world. I wasn’t anywhere near that level of maturity at their age.

+1

I'm impressed with these people. Couple of years and they'll be voting.

 

[newkid]

I find their idealism refreshing, if somewhat misguided. It's a shame that the reality of the world, as they gain maturity and responsibility for themselves and someday perhaps their own children, will take that idealism away and require compromises that today they wouldn't dream of making.

 

[Amethyst]

They'll learn nuance and compromise, sure. As budding politicians, they are already learning these things. But I think it is the thought of their own someday children that will continue to drive them, if anything does.

I find their idealism refreshing, if somewhat misguided. It's a shame that the reality of the world, as they gain maturity and responsibility for themselves and someday perhaps their own children, will take that idealism away and require compromises that today they wouldn't dream of making.