What Makes You Feel Poorer?

[Telly]

Not living in a refugee camp, drinking stump water, and eating gruel...

So when did you leave Texas?

Damn! I'm ER'd, so I don't have much time for internet (if I was working, there'd be plenty of time for internet ). So I musta missed yer post when you escaped.
If you plan on returning soon fer a va-cation, I'll tell ya, we're runnin' low on the stump water.

 

[Fireup2020]

I comfort myself with the fact that I am able to buy "more" shares - and my savings rate is increasing (salary increasing, and cash outflow decreasing). Statements are depressing, but most of my TSP/deferred comp is out of reach regardless. I've even allowed myself to take advantage of great sales on items on my "luxury" list! I'm healthy, happy, employed (by TWO companies), and life is just good! Having been freakin' poor and in debt over my head once upon a time - and survived & overcame, I choose to focus on the positive anyway!

 

[HFWR]

So when did you leave Texas?

Damn! I'm ER'd, so I don't have much time for internet (if I was working, there'd be plenty of time for internet ). So I musta missed yer post when you escaped.
If you plan on returning soon fer a va-cation, I'll tell ya, we're runnin' low on the stump water.

I've replaced stump water with cactus juice! Besides, the termites are eating all the stumps...

 

[theloneranger]

ok ok - so I paid full retail for new C.E. Schmidt overalls(Tractor Supply) for the New Orleans trip - I have to dress up for their favorite Chinese buffett in Slidell.

And then it's a coin toss for for my favorite seafood Muffaletta place.

heh heh heh - maybe I can be poor with a granola bar every other meal.

So would the Chinese buffet be at Trey Yen? I don't remember if they have a buffet; only eaten at the one in Hammond, LA. They have great food. And have you had the thin fried catfish at Middendorf"s?

 

[youbet]

A year and a half ago, I felt "flush". We had a low withdrawal rate and enough assets that we could help out family members in a financial emergency if needed.

Now I feel "safe enough" for our living expenses, but the extra cushion is gone. If some special need came up, we could be looking at some tough tradeoffs.

Yep - I feel poorer - no way around that.

Audrey

Audrey's situation is similar to ours. When I retired (booted by MegaCorp actually) 2.6 years ago, things looked rosey. For about a year, things got even rosier as the market went up, I exercised some options, collected severance and collected unemployment. Whee..... !! Lotsa fun. The past 1.5 yrs or so has seen all that come to an end. No additonal compensation from MegaCorp or the state, market down, remaining options deep under water and about to expire. We're flying solo and there's a lot less gas in the tank!

The joy has been taken out of spontaneous/frivilous spending. Friends called saying they would be passing through town and why don't we meet them for dinner. We did. Lots of fun at the time. But later DW and I both brought up the fact that the approximate $80 we spent was as much as our normal grocery bill for a week! Before this downturn, we'd have never given it a second thought. We'd have only thought about how much we had enjoyed spending a little time with friends.

We're still OK. We've postponed some decorating, buying a modest RV, a new car and some international travel. Any extra cushion is pretty much gone. Helping my son and his family if something were to happen (like loss of a job) would be a challenge where before it would have been a piece of cake. Our regular gifts to MIL who is trying to live on SS continue but I've heard DW mention to her that they need to review her budget.

All the basics are still covered, but we definintely feel poorer.

 

[ziggy29]

The joy has been taken out of spontaneous/frivilous spending. Friends called saying they would be passing through town and why don't we meet them for dinner. We did. Lots of fun at the time. But later DW and I both brought up the fact that the approximate $80 spent was as much as our normal grocery bill for a week! Before this downturn, we'd have never given it a second thought. We'd have only thought about how much we had enjoyed spending a little time with friends.

We're not retired yet (and probably won't be for a LONG time now), but the same is true here. Even after maxing out a 401K and two Roths, we often find ourselves with a lot more discretionary income than we used to. We haven't given up going out to eat after church on Sundays, but other than that, it's pretty much gone. Stuff I used to not blink at spending $50 or $100 for now goes unpurchased. Not because we can't afford it presently -- we can -- but because it feels like every last dollar could be critical in terms of surviving the next few years of chronic unemployment and underemployment.

We have probably $20,000 of household projects on hold. Even if we spent all of that now, we'd have more than enough of an emergency fund in ordinary times. Obviously, these aren't ordinary times. So the money stays in the bomb shelter.

If I factor in likely severance pay, unemployment and subsidized COBRA for nine months, if I got a pink slip tomorrow we could probably make it at least two years even if neither of us took any work at all (though if that happened, my wife could easily pick up a part-time job or two) in that time frame.

It's rather telling that I don't feel like even that much of a cushion is close to being enough. So at the end of each month, another 2-3 weeks of treading water goes into savings. Our tax refund, which we should get next week, is another 3-4 weeks as well.

Discretionary income has become little more than a symbol of increased survivability now.

 

[freebird5825]

...The joy has been taken out of spontaneous/frivilous spending. Friends called saying they would be passing through town and why don't we meet them for dinner. We did. Lots of fun at the time. But later DW and I both brought up the fact that the approximate $80 we spent was as much as our normal grocery bill for a week! Before this downturn, we'd have never given it a second thought. We'd have only thought about how much we had enjoyed spending a little time with friends.

I understand about looking at 1 simple dinner out = 1 week worth of groceries. This reminds me of my starving college student days when I had a set income (work study and summer j*bs) and known expenses (books, room & board, gas, Friday night $0.50 pitchers of beer ).
I never imagined returning to this tight budgeting mode. I am so glad I had that training.
Find some joy - treat yourself to a simple pleasure, like a banana split, or a music CD. Keep it cheap, maybe make it something silly.

 

[John Galt III]

High food prices make me feel poor. Smaller packages and higher prices. And the fact that the shoppers around me are looking very blase about the high prices is very annoying. I feel like screaming "$5.27 a pound for pork! This is insanity! Doesn't anyone care ?? !!" Fortunately, I almost always find something at a decent price, anyway, but it takes time.

Which brings up another subject. I feel time-deprived ( "time-poor") when I only have 3 hours a day when I am not sleeping or working, which is the case five days a week for me. Not whining here, I choose this lifestyle because of the total picture, but time is sort of on a par with money, richness, poorness, quality of life.

Oh yeah, gas at $ 4.00 a gallon made me feel poor, too.

 

[Nords]

We have probably $20,000 of household projects on hold. Even if we spent all of that now, we'd have more than enough of an emergency fund in ordinary times. Obviously, these aren't ordinary times. So the money stays in the bomb shelter.
Discretionary income has become little more than a symbol of increased survivability now.

We've had at least that backlog of projects looking for a contractor. The nice thing about a recession is that we finally have contractors available again!

Our cash flow now is better than it was in 2000-2002, so our cash stash can stretch a lot further than we expected...

 

[RonBoyd]

Quotes on Worry, Fear, Anxiety & Suffering

Some good ones:

"If you are going through hell, keep going.” ~ Winston Churchill

My life has been full of terrible misfortunes -- most of which have never happened." ~ Michel de Montaigne

and the ever popular:

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." ~ Reinhold Niebuhr

 

[ziggy29]

We've had at least that backlog of projects looking for a contractor. The nice thing about a recession is that we finally have contractors available again!

Yes, that's true. If I felt my long-term employment situation were more secure, I'd be all over these projects. Some contractors are desperate enough for work that they'd cut you a significant price break and start work tomorrow.

 

[HFWR]

We've had at least that backlog of projects looking for a contractor. The nice thing about a recession is that we finally have contractors available again!

Our cash flow now is better than it was in 2000-2002, so our cash stash can stretch a lot further than we expected...

Conversely, my bro-in-law the contractor is so busy he can't keep up.

 

[Amethyst]

Friends called saying they would be passing through town and why don't we meet them for dinner. We did. Lots of fun at the time. But later DW and I both brought up the fact that the approximate $80 we spent was as much as our normal grocery bill for a week

We made this calculation when husband retired and our income dropped by 35%. We stopped going out to eat, period. We cook for friends at our home. It's harder to carry off on the spur of the moment, but not impossible.

At far less than it would cost the 2 of us at a restaurant, we can provide ourselves and 2 friends the kind of dinner, dessert, coffee, and alcoholic beverages we could get at a restaurant (frankly, the dessert will be better than a restaurant 'cause I'm just a competent cook--but desserts are my hobby ). No tipping; no parking problems; peace and quiet for conversation; kids (if any) can play in the finished basement.

If my and husband's Martha Stewart genes are tired, we just offer snacks, dessert, coffee, and drinks. We have a stash of fancy liqueurs for these occasions...makes people feel special. The liqueur stash was expensive to buy but the bottles last for years, and we serve in fancy little glasses we picked up at flea markets.

 

[youbet]

Amethyst.....

Yeah, we're more than aware of the large cost delta between dining out and eating at home. The point of my post was that this economy and the subsequent drop in the value of our investments has changed our attitude towards any (not just dining out) discretionary/spontaneous/frivilous expenditure negative. The $80 would have been fairly inconsequential to us pre-meltdown. We don't spend much on dining out for either convenience or entertainment. But if we did, there used to be no worry or concern as the impact on the discretionary spending budget would have been close to nil. Now....... discretionary purchases usually result in a case of buyers remorse.


Dining out, plays, live music, sitting down at the pub having a pint and gossiping with the boys, vacations, breakaway weekends and on and on. It's hard for us to still enjoy these things even though, thanks to a very conservative start to RE, they're not really completely out of reach financially yet.

 

[freebird5825]

we also do not eat out anymore - for Valentine's Day this year, dh2b bought and cooked us 2 beautiful Delmonico steaks, plus shrimp I already had in the freezer.
We had a decadent dinner we won't forget for quite a while.
The only eating out we do is my weekly chinese lunch buffet for $7 incl tax, or if I'm craving KFC or pizza.
It is a very different situation, sacraficing usual fun spending for the bigger picture of meeting expenses. Sigh.

 

[dm]

I definatly feel poorer that I did when I retired in 2007, because I am. Now I'm thinking of packing my lunch and snacks when I go golfing. I'll still spend some money there, cart girls and waitress have to earn a living also, just not as much. I just try and tell myself that I still have it better than most.

My previous large cushion is just about gone. There is not much room for any large unexpected expenses. We are going on a cruise in March, but after that we are not planning on going anywhere that we can't drive to in a day.

 

[Amethyst]

Amethyst..... Yeah, we're more than aware.... Now....... discretionary purchases usually result in a case of buyers remorse.

And I should've seen that was your point, instead of going all Ms. Advice Columnist and bragging about what great desserts I make? OK, point taken.

Anyway, when our income dropped, we cut where we could. Cutting costs, without losing the "perception" of living large, always seems mean more planning and effort = less spontaneity. Crummy equation.

 

[youbet]

Cutting costs, without losing the "perception" of living large, always seems mean more planning and effort = less spontaneity. Crummy equation.

Well put. And pretty well describes a fair portion of why DW and I feel "poorer" today.

We have always enjoyed spontaneous activities and, within reason, have been able to afford them without the expenditures materially impacting our progress to FIRE or, after FIRE, living as retirees. A last minute dinner date with friends, hitting the Hot Tix booth in downtown Chicago and catching a play or musical that same evening, deciding at the last minute to catch some live music, heading "Up Nort" for a long weekend of fishing...... etc. We were blessed that we could do that kind thing from time to time and not have it be a significant part of our overall retirement budget. We miss it!

BTW, not whining here. We realize lots of folks are being forced into making real sacrifices, not just cutting out discretionary fun. But, so far, this is what is making us feel "poor." If this is as bad as it gets, we'll be fine!

 

[laurence]

My neighbor just got wheeled out of his house on a stretcher. We've always been friendly but not super close. Nice people, handsome younger couple - 40, tops. Ends up he's o.k. (we were all worried it was a stroke) but had a bad reaction to his new medication as he is borderline diabetic. His wife came over to talk to us and explain she thought it was that he had drank too much beer the night before at first. Ends up he was laid off some time ago and has had no luck finding work, and is getting pretty down. Her BIL was laid off in November and hasn't found anything, and now she was informed her company Taylor Made has announced another RIF ("Reduction in Force") and she doesn't know what's going to happen to her. I already have an empty house behind me, I'd hate to lose these neighbors. This is the part that really sucks. They lived pretty frugally from what I can tell, bought the smallest house in the development since they didn't plan on having kids. No toys, fancy cars, etc. To watch people who did not get stupid with the bubble get hurt by it's affects so tangibly is a strain.

 

[sander06]

My wife and I both come from humble origins (read poverty), so we've always lived a simple life. However, I've recently become a little concerned over our losses and have decided we'll need to tighten up on our budgeting even more. Unfortunately, it may be tough to cut-back even more since we we're already in a cut-backed budget!

I guess mostly we miss the comfort a cash buffer provides. On the other hand, we actually think it's kind of fun to live the frugal life. My wife can always find a job typing a million words per minute (or almost) and I can fix anything in the house. We got no debt, but we got our health.

Nope, I guess we don't feel poorer after all!!

Steve