When is enough , enough?

[marko]

My version of that thought (which I believe I read somewhere here) is...If we don't fly first class, our kids will.

Not sure, but I may have originated that phrase here. It was one of mom's favorite lines. She had no patience with stingy people due to her father's antics.

Regardless, it holds true. Nothing sadder than someone doing without when they can afford it. My grandfather was worth mid eight figures, lived quite well until he reached old age and spent his last ten years needlessly living the life of a miser.

 

[Car-Guy]

This is exactly what I think. I turn off lights whenever nobody needs them. I compare prices of groceries between Kroger and Walmart constantly. I am hesitating if I should spend (waste) money at casinos. I consider casino visits as entertainments since I almost always lose there. If I don't spend my money now, what if I regret in the future. But what if I need more money in the future? I have been trying to balance spending and future needs a lot.

My current solution is to spend money on entertainments, including travels and casino visits, etc, and gift money to my children at the same time, also do Roth conversion (paying taxes). These amount to 2% of my portfolio and my normal living expenses are another 2%, so that I am getting close to the 4% SWR.

Yep, been there done (doing) that, frequently! But I'm having a blast doing it too! Of course you'll lose more money than you'll win over the long term if you play frequently, otherwise they wouldn't be open.

OTOH, these places are experts at getting you to their properties. The perks can be pretty dang enticing.

 

[athena53]

+1

I turn off the LED lights in a room nobody is using because it's a waste, even if it would only cost 25 cents per month !!

I grew up with Depression parents, and we were pretty poor, so wasting something meant less money for something else later. It's really stuck with me. "Waste Not, Want Not."

Same here but it started with my grandparents. Maternal grandparents raised 5 kids during the Depression and although Grandpa had a decent job, Mom said that when the bills were paid there wasn't enough money left for him to buy a bottle of beer.

It's not a bad mentality, though, especially now that "cheap" is the new "green". I keep the house at a fairly low temperature, for example, but always have a space heater with me. (Yes, I unplug it when it's not in use due to the fire risk.) Why heat up the entire house when I'm nearly always in the kitchen or the bedroom? I'm also very careful about not wasting food- really, there's no need to with a little planning.

I'm convinced that not spending money on things that don't matter to me leaves me money for the things that DO.

 

[MarieIG]

As far as spending down, that is somewhat personal, and may depend upon a particular person's age, budget, tastes, whether planning for one retiree or two (spouse/partner) economic conditions upon retirement and priorities.


Spending pursuant to a budget, with some funds pre-allocated towards discretionary items may be something to consider.

 

[street]

It's hard to snap out of that frugal mindset. The other day, I got a beer out of the freezer that one of my housemates had forgotten about. Once it thawed out, I opened it and poured it out and recycled the can. And this morning, I poured out the rest of a Yuengling that I only drank about half of last night.

I hate seeing it go to waste (and jokingly call that "alcohol abuse"). But in the overall scheme of things, that canned Milwaukee's Best Ice cost about 60 cents. And that half-a-Yuengling probably came out to around 40-45 cents.

But then, I thought about it for a moment, remembered eh, it's not going to bankrupt me, and forgot about it. Well, I didn't completely forget about it, since I just made a post about it!

Although I guess my hangup is more about being wasteful, than being cheap. The two don't necessarily go hand in hand.

Yes, learned from a young age, from parents of the depression era never to be wasteful. Then being frugal on top of that is something hard to change.

 

[jollystomper]

Having a good pension (still covering close to 2/3 of our spending) and seeing our cash+investments noticeably higher than when I retired 5 years ago certainly helps us move away from a frugal mindset .

We focus more on not being wasteful. That is different from being frugal. For example, I love computer and electronics, but I only buy those items when I know I will have time to use them. I have a "technology refresh" wishlist, but if I buy them all at once, there are some that might languish and I might never use until it is time for them to be refreshed again. So I just get them as I have time to work on them.

When we are on vacation, we are certainly not frugal. I focus on comfort and those things that give me more time to actually enjoy the vacation. The example I have used here before is our trip to France earlier this year. Our mode of travel, lodging location and facilities, activities, and food were based on what we wanted for a comfortable vacation and not on bottom line cost.

It certainly is not an instant change. But once you realize that your money will have a longer runway than you will, you start worrying less about being frugal in all things .

 

[unclemick]

It is hard to change a mindset you have had for the vast majority of your life...


I still complain to my wife and daughter when they waste even a dollar on something that is clearly a waste... it is the way my brain is wired and nothing is gong to change that... (well, if I won the billion dollar lottery I would change)

My current Wife came with her own 401k, pension and house. My mindset has learned to stay between my ears - aka 'silence is golden' and 'Yes Dear' now trump my 'frugal' mouth.

Heh heh heh - She grew up on a farm so practical and common sense tends to prevail.

 

[2017ish]

...

So, it does take time to feel at ease with not having a steady income but you can get there. Just don't save it all for "someday". I've had some fantastic travel experiences and I'm not done yet but I can't do hikes with names like "Boulder scramble" anymore- at least not fast enough to keep up with the 40-somethings.

And the little frugal things may never go away. Yesterday after consulting with an oral surgeon about getting yet another dental implant ($$$$, but I love the ones I have), I went to the Customer Service counter at the grocery store because my loyalty card hadn't been updated with a 17 cents/gallon discount on my next tank of gas from their station. My typical fill-up is under 9 gallons.

OMG, this is us to a "T." I think that when we fly business class, we are the only ones who have plastic water bottles that we fill up in the lounge before boarding... (Once, a flight attendant took my bottle when cleaning up and was shocked when I asked her if I could retrieve it from her trash bag!)

And right with you on the doing while young. We can no longer keep up with the fittest 20somethings, but keep plugging along in our version of the little engine that could.

 

[Music Lover]

I often laugh at myself for turning off lights, etc when not needed, but I still do it. And then I'll turn around and go to a Casino and drop "thousands" in just an hour or so. Then I think about how many lights I have to turn off to save enough for one casino trip. Maybe a lifetime of turning out lights would pay for one trip, maybe.... How stupid! Am I going to change? Nope!

I turn lights off, clip coupons, do my own DIY, etc., etc.,

But then we bought a washer and dryer for the cabin even though we knew that they will only get used once a month or so. For such little usage we could have just taken laundry back and forth from home. On top of that I had to run electrical for the dryer and route a dryer vent (from the middle of the cabin to an outside wall). 2 full days of work.

So, we're frugal as a matter of habit but have no problem spending money if it makes out life even a little bit easier. But maybe, being frugal our whole lives freed up that money so we could treat ourselves in retirement.

 

[pacergal]

OP--how long have you been retired and do you spend up to your planned budget?

Spending is a fairly common concern when you first retire, and it can be difficult to go from save to spend.
I have a quote from a member here (not sure who to attribute it too!), but it has helped me:
"You are no longer in a savings mode. You are now in a slow spend down mode."

Also, this other gem I got here, helps me plan my spending.
Two questions to ask before spending:
"Is it truly necessary?
or
Do I really want it?"

As long as we stay within our desired budget, I don't worry too much about spending. Even the larger ticket items have been planned for, eventually, as needed.

 

[RetiredHappy]

We have been spending 2X of our original planned budget when we retired 7 years ago. We fly first class, travel 3 months a year in "style", belong to a country club where we golf alot, and pay for a ton of golf and eating out when we are travelling. Our investments are at about the same as when we retired. We were never frugal and we are not about to start now. We know that we won't run out of money and I do have an offspring where I need/want to leave a substantial estate to. So my goal is either grow our investments or stay at about this same level and then he gets all of that plus the sale of our home when we are gone.

So, yes, we have enough.

 

[ERhoosier]

This guy had 'enough' to live like he wished.....and left a bunch to his small town.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/geoffrey-holt-secret-multimillionaire-hinsdale-new-hampshire-millions/

 

[Slim11]

OP--how long have you been retired and do you spend up to your planned budget?

Spending is a fairly common concern when you first retire, and it can be difficult to go from save to spend.
I have a quote from a member here (not sure who to attribute it too!), but it has helped me:
"You are no longer in a savings mode. You are now in a slow spend down mode."

Also, this other gem I got here, helps me plan my spending.
Two questions to ask before spending:
"Is it truly necessary?
or
Do I really want it?"

As long as we stay within our desired budget, I don't worry too much about spending. Even the larger ticket items have been planned for, eventually, as needed.

I think this has a lot to do with it. That and I am just not used to being retired. Mine was more forced then wanting to retire. Im 50. So younger. Have a 12 yo and wife. As far as money, I think I am good....but the unknown. Lol. I think I should spend and take my 457 now. But I am so used to putting money into it I really dont like the idea of taking money out. I think I did calculations and can rake out like 35k a year untill I am 80. I dont need it, as of now I am fine, but if I have extra maybe spend a bit more? I get I need money in the future, but I have other money. But all the comments make me feel a little better doing this. Take it out, save it if I dont need it, and maybe take a nicer trip or two down the road before it ends.

 

[thatguy]

Too many unknowns ahead. Will I need LTC? Will we buy into a CCRC someday. Will we still have enough to do some travel.
70k of pensions & SS and I still think new cars and some desirable hotel destinations are too expensive. It's enough to pay my bills and take a couple cheap trips.
42k of SS is ahead when DW turns 70.
Some of the retirement nest egg needs to be preserved for the survivor who will lose one SS and the larger pension. My RMD is getting smaller. The whole RMD went for tax this year cus of a Roth conversion. DW has a million that's not touched yet.
We have about 4 years income in the bank. If I get through a medical issue I'm facing, I think we're gonna spend on some nicer travel accommodations. At least for a couple days. There's this lodge on a mountain lake.

 

[Ready-4-ER-at-14]

I have always been conservative in my calculations as to how much income investments might yield but one rule of thumb that has helped me is that it is much harder to give up something you enjoy routinely than to need some new toy. In other words, whenever we had new income levels we spent some more and saved part by investing some more.

Also it is not so much how we are living as how are we living according to our peers or surrounding people to me. It's kind of like you can feel rich in the dollar store with $20 but not so much at (insert any local upscale pricey retailer name here).

Among our friends and family we are doing ok. Some have more some have a great deal less. If you can make more than the average working family in a high cost of living area without spending down the core nest egg, you know you could always move or dip into the nest egg for a long time. If all our friends were billionaires i think I'd feel less smug but still contented.

Maybe it is easier to decide when you have excess than when do you have enough?

 

[Retired Expat]

It is hard to change a mindset you have had for the vast majority of your life...


I still complain to my wife and daughter when they waste even a dollar on something that is clearly a waste... it is the way my brain is wired and nothing is gong to change that... (well, if I won the billion dollar lottery I would change)

I think if I won the billion dollar lottery I would still be careful about money! Would still be looking to save on the best deal for private airfare, or is there a sale on that super luxury cruise. Regardless of how much money we have we can’t stop being “careful” or looking for deals.

Currently vacationing in Patagonia where if you have dollars things are downright cheap! But of course it is still spending money and staying home would have saved a lot but our lives would be poorer if we did that

It is just beautiful where we are!

 

[Ronstar]

Enough is never enough.

When I was younger, I learned that the purpose of money was to make more money. For retirement, an emergency, etc. You never know how much money you're going to need in the future, so you spend little and work a lot to build a stash.


I did this for 40 working years, and now 10 years into retirement, these habits are tough to break. I'm starting to loosen up a little on spending, but I still want the stash to grow.

 

[kgtest]

Enough is never enough.

When I was younger, I learned that the purpose of money was to make more money. For retirement, an emergency, etc. You never know how much money you're going to need in the future, so you spend little and work a lot to build a stash.


I did this for 40 working years, and now 10 years into retirement, these habits are tough to break. I'm starting to loosen up a little on spending, but I still want the stash to grow.

Old habits "die hard". And you don't know when it will rain, and it may pour.

Most have a different lens on what is "enough". But I think after 10 yrs of retirement, and the rest of your life spend acquiring...you are probably aware of what could happen vs what will happen.

I believe my folks and my in-law's both have this problem. They do give, they give to grandkids 529s and have given gifts to help their children, I included.

But, dad retired over 7yrs ago and his NW, although not back to all time high's from 2021 but still up 120% since retirement still has a hard time not being addicted to frugality.

Human's are creatures of habbit. I too am saving like a squirrel at 42 to finish my rat race sooner than Dad did. He could have pulled the plug sooner. He will leave all of his direct heirs millions at this rate.

But what's a person to do, he says he has everything he wants and needs. And he does. They remodeled the whole house, and took a frugal approach so it wasn't that much of a change. They travelled a little but mom is having more health issues so that limits money you can spend on travel. And travel has always been one of my biggest expenses...eliminate that in a budget and its a game changer. No way you can spend it all. What are you gonna do start spending 10k a year somewhere else?

I guess dad DOES start to spend elsewhere but STILL has money. Charity, gifting, small splurges.

Maybe someday big expenses will come. Maybe he needs to help one of his grandkids out with a medical bill or something. I will say, likely all but 2 of his grandkids college will be covered.

My in-laws have the same issues. They arent as frugal as my dad, but they don't overspend needlessly which means they both have MORE than... enough.

And certainly not my place to tell THEM how to spend their money. I definitely have given them some ideas from time to time though lol...ahem, trip to Hawaii...ahem, 529 contribution ...ahem dinners on Dad! ...ahem, this VACATION is on Dad....screeech... Dad locks up the tires hahahahah!

 

[marko]

"Mr. Rockefeller, you're the richest man on earth. When is enough, enough?"

"Just a little bit more"

 

[jollystomper]

"Mr. Rockefeller, you're the richest man on earth. When is enough, enough?"

"Just a little bit more"

While that reply is attributed to John Rockefeller, there is no documented historical proof that he ever said that. That "quote" did not show up until the 1990s.


There is historical proof, however, that he said this:


"The impression was gaining ground with me that it was a good thing to let the money be my slave and not make myself a slave to money."

 

[marko]

While that reply is attributed to John Rockefeller, there is no documented historical proof that he ever said that. That "quote" did not show up until the 1990s.


There is historical proof, however, that he said this:


"The impression was gaining ground with me that it was a good thing to let the money be my slave and not make myself a slave to money."

Well then! Thanks for correcting this. Ive been misquoting all these years!

 

[8Mang]

If you didn't grow up with it, you worked hard and were very fortunate along the way, it's a hard concept to get your head around. A couple of years out of the game and set, I still can't answer this question. But that "feeling" helps keep things centered between spending like a lunatic and eating Ramen noodles in the dark every night (which isn't actually the worse thing

 

[LateToFIRE]

"Mr. Rockefeller, you're the richest man on earth. When is enough, enough?"

"Just a little bit more"

Historically accurate or not, "just a little more" is one of my favorite "quotes", and describes my OMY problem well.

I'm not exactly frugal, but what I'd call "considerate of money, both mine and other peoples" - it is a resource, and resources are to be respected, not to be wasted. It's taken awhile to get comfortable thinking of our $$$ resources as a source of income.

In retirement I will probably suffer some shock for not generating earned income for the first time in 40 years. Right now, my savings and NW feel like purely abstract concepts - sure I've got a detailed assets spreadsheet, and sure, I've plugged all the portfolio numbers thru all the calculators I could get my hands on, but still, it remains an abstraction because I've (quite intentionally) never really touched those funds for anything but more investment. In fact, I don't even like the idea of touching those funds - my prime directive is to grow NW, not potentially diminish it.

But, I'll get over it. And will probably spend quite a bit in the first few years because life is not getting any longer - and in fact it could be too short for me given family history and such. Probably my biggest hazard, absent some sort of catastrophe, would be needing to pare back lifestyle if investment yields or inflation don't cooperate. And I'm telling myself, would that unlikely event really be so terrible? No, on a relative basis, it would not, especially if I'm 80/90 something at that point.

So, given the above, I have concluded, that yes, actually, I have enough.

 

[Koolau]

My BFF who passed at 79 this year always felt that "He who dies with the most toys, wins." SO, even though he was minus half a million dollars, he had "enough." He had enough to do all the stuff he wanted to do (though he always thought of more stuff he wanted to do.)

Can I fault him? Well, only because his DW is now picking up the pieces. Of course, she was almost as bad as he was in terms of spending money she didn't have. They lived their lives as they desired. It's not what I would have wanted but it was what they wanted.

I guess I'd have to conclude that they had enough. I know I do though YMMV.

 

[albireo13]

There is nothing wrong with continuing to be frugal.
I dont believe in spending just because I can.
Just be comfortable.